Sleep Problems

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Mike619er
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 429
   Posted 12/9/2009 10:37 AM (GMT -7)   
I've been posting on different topics all over the anxiety and depression forums.  For the most part I believe I am improving, definetly able to make it through the days a lot better then at the start of all of these problems.  I still find myself a little anxious and depressed at moments but they don't seem to last as long as they used to when this sudden severe onset of anxiety hit me.
 
This post is strictly about sleep.
 
I guess I'll start off by saying that before all of this sudden anxiety hit me, I used to sleep a lot.  I get up early in the morning for work and get done early so I normally would nap from 1-3 pm.  And then I wouldn't normally go to bed until 10 pm and I'd be up for work at 5 am.  So I was getting about the normal amount of sleep and I didn't think that was an abnormal amount of time spent sleeping, family would kid and call me garfield but I didnt think it was all that bad.  It's only 9 hours a day and I thought about 8-10 hours was recommended anyways?  Well when my headaches panic/anxiety hit my sleeping days were done.
 
I'm currently taking Ativan .5mg and Ambien 10 mg to help sleep at night.  It gets the job done as far as getting me to sleep, I usually fall asleep within 1 hour which I would definetly not be able to do without the medication lately.  But I CANNOT stay asleep.  I sleep for only 2-3 hours and then I'm up, tossing and turning and staring at the walls.
 
I've tried natural remedies such as that nightime sleep tea, melatonin, warm milk.  And also not natural but I've tried Advil PM, Tylenol PM, nothing seems to do the trick.
 
I'm sure I can talk to my doctor about other medication but I was wondering if anyone else found another medication that worked better for them to help them sleep?  I've heard some people don't respond well to the Ambien and I don't think it's really doing what it's supposed to do for me.
 
Any suggestions?  Also I'm currently on Cymbalta 120mg for the past 3 weeks.  I'm a walking pharmacy
 
~Mike

getting by
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Date Joined Sep 2007
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   Posted 12/9/2009 11:48 AM (GMT -7)   
I take ambien Mike, and I find the generic works better for me than the brand name did. But you need to take it on an empty stomache and go right to bed. Though it works for me no matter what I do.

But I also meditate. It is a way of clearing your mind and making yourself relax. Have you ever tried it? You can learn about it on the internet, or I can give you some tips.

I just got interupted, my ram chip came for my computer, so I have to go to the site to learn how to install it.

I hope that you have a good day.

Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies


Mike619er
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 429
   Posted 12/9/2009 1:48 PM (GMT -7)   
I've thought about looking up some meditation ideas on the internet, I'm not usually the type of person who believes in that stuff but lately I'll try anything to get back into a normal routine of sleeping and relaxing.
 
Also I could use any tips you'd be willing to toss my way.

i88
New Member


Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 5
   Posted 12/9/2009 2:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Trazodone worked very well for me -- and it's an antidepressant to boot. You can take it with your medications.
J

Mike619er
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 429
   Posted 12/9/2009 3:36 PM (GMT -7)   
Already feeling a little bit like a zombie lately though, Trazodone going to make that worse with the cymbalta I'm already on?

Mike619er
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 429
   Posted 12/9/2009 6:30 PM (GMT -7)   
Just to add one thing, I'm also starting to develop these extremely attractive dark circles and bags underneath my eyes.  Way too young for that, anything I can to help that?  Sleep would be an easy answer, just not very easily done lately.

getting by
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40603
   Posted 12/9/2009 8:10 PM (GMT -7)   
Mike,

Meditation is basically concentrating on your breathing, cleearing your mind and relaxing your muscles. It is the power of the mind, we all have that, just have to find it.

Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies


THE HAPPY TURTLE
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 18774
   Posted 12/9/2009 9:16 PM (GMT -7)   
incense, some soothing music, waterfalls are very conducive music aide, as is candle gazing. candle gazing is excellent as a mindfulness practice to help a over-active mind slow down. the process is to acknowledge things that come into your mind and then let them go. a warm bath with a liquid called llectric hepls sooth your muscles, furthermore i would do the bath with soothing music on, then before you retire begin your mindfulness practice and or meditations. it can be as easy as going to a happy place in your mind. no distractions, visitors, tv, etc. try it, hope this helps mike. cheers, me catching up on sleep, last night was all over the shop myself. i take seroquel, and cymbalta for the depression, 60mg. all the best, jamie.
YESTERDAY IS A BUTTERLY WITHOUT WINGS. (ME)
 
DX, MDD, SEVERE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER.
 
REMEMBER TO LOVE YOU. BE YOU AND BE TRUE.


Tirzah
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2284
   Posted Today 11:14 PM (GMT -7)   
Sorry you're still struggling to get sleep.

I like Lunesta much better than Ambien, but that's what works for me. Everyone's different.

Also, have you every tried accupunture? I've been feeling awful lately & my insurance will only cover sleeping meds 2 months out of every 3. So strange. Apparently it's because Lunesta is so much more expensive than generic Ambien. I've tried other meds, but I like Lunesta the best. That said, there are a lot -- a LOT -- of meds used to treat sleeping disorders out there. But since it's not fool-proof & there are these in-between times with no insurance coverage where I get a decent amount of benefit from accupuncture. Plus, the temperature of your bedroom really does make a huge difference, I've found.

As far as what the options are: I think the most common ones are Ambien, Lunesta, Rozerem for hypnotics, Remeron, Ativan & Valium for anti-anxiety meds, Seroquel for anti-psychotic meds, Neurontin & Lyrica for anti-convulsant meds & a whole bunch of possibilities for anti-depressant meds. Sleep is so elusive. If your psych doesn't want to try different things to get you some more sleep, maybe try a sleep specialist. Usually they are either prescribing psychologists or neurologists who can take a history & list of symptoms from you, run any tests needed, provide some advice & set you up with different meds.

I do know that sometimes meds intended for one thing end up having the opposite effect. So confusing, but pretty much any psychoactive drug can be tricky to work with. When I'm not on Lunesta, the most effective med for me is Soma (a muscle relaxant). It doesn't really do much of anything to help my muscles relax, but a side effect is to make people sleepy & it definitely makes me sleepy. :) At my last visit, my doc even suggested Marinol. I'm not willing to try it since I'm looking for a job right now, but it is FDA approved and completely legal under federal law in the U.S. Some people swear by it -- puts them to sleep for 9 hours they say.

But, really, navigating the myriad of meds that can be used for sleeping is pretty much impossible without an expert. A psychiatrist or neurologist (or at least a prescribing psychologist who specializes in sleep disorders) can help figure out which ones are safe for you to try with your medical history, symptoms & other medications.

Also, a lot of people are helped by keeping the bedroom just for sleeping & spouses. If you are staying in bed too much tossing & turning -- or reading, or writing out to-do lists, or worrying, etc., your brain starts to associate your bed with not sleeping. Some people are helped by getting out of bed when they can't sleep -- read, watch tv, do something relaxing (whatever that is for you) -- and then when you start to feel sleepy again, go back to bed. It sucks for the first few nights because sometimes you spend more time out of bed than in it, but after that (assuming you don't have an underlying neurological disorder), people start to sleep longer & longer.

feel better,
frances

getting by
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Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40603
   Posted 12/12/2009 7:47 AM (GMT -7)   
My insurance writes the doc a letter about how addictive ambien is. Being it is a hypnotic, I guess. So he stops me for a month and then starts me again. I usually take melatonin for that month. It does help. Insurance companies are funny about sleeping meds, and I don't understand the problem. If you need it, you need it.

I just don't understand why they have to make it so difficult to get some thing that you need. Frances, I will take your marinol. I wonder if my doc would prescribe it for sleep. My insurance probably wouldn't even cover it. But I hear that it works well. But being it is fda approved now, maybe I could try that. Though the amiben works, the ins co just balks about it once in a while. They probably want me to take it two months on and one off too. '

I hope that you all have a great day. It is suppose to be warmer here today.

Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies


Mike619er
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 429
   Posted 12/12/2009 2:18 PM (GMT -7)   
When you all take the ambien for sleep does it knock you out for the entire night?  Feel like I'm the only one that can only sleep for an hour at a clip on it.  I'm up every hour every night, even with my Ativan and Ambien medication.

getting by
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40603
   Posted 12/12/2009 9:24 PM (GMT -7)   
I usually sleep through the night.  I don't wake up often, maybe once in awhile, but most every night I sleep staight through.  But I can sleep easy anyway.  I would sleep all day long if I didnt' take adderall.  I only take the ambien to get a restful sleep, which I wouldn't ordinarily get.  Though I would still sleep, but I would be exhausted.  It is wierd.  I guess it is the fibromyalgia that makes me that way.  I could easily sleep during the day even with the adderall, but I wont let myself sleep during the day.  I slept for two years all day every day and I missed out on a lot of living.
 
I hope that you get some rest. 
 
Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies


Tirzah
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2284
   Posted 12/12/2009 10:13 PM (GMT -7)   
Karen,
They had a lot of samples at my doc's office. I've heard it's easier to get for pain patients than for straight depression/sleep disturbances. Since you have fibro, maybe going that route could help. I think it's only on-label for nausea, but my PM has been sampling it to his patients with sleeping probs that don't respond to Ambien or Lunesta & has said he's gotten good feedback.

Since it's a pill, it's not full of dangerous chemicals, just a stable dose of the active ingredient. People swear by it. I just got my insurance to cover my Lunesta for the next 12 months after a note from my PM so I'm good to go with that, but if I weren't job hunting & didn't have a better alternative, I'd probably try it. I just figure there are probably almost no employers who would accept that in a potential new hire. Apparently most drug screens test for the same active ingredient as what's in Marinol. Until they come up with something that can pick up the other additives so they can differentiate between legal & illegal drugs, I'm steering clear of it.

Hope you find some relief. :)

Mike,
I think most people get at least 7 hours sleep on Ambien. Fewer hours than that means it's not working right. They do have the a CR version of Ambien that releases more of the medication in the middle of the night. Have you tried that?

sweet dreams, all,
frances

Mike619er
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 429
   Posted 12/13/2009 4:37 AM (GMT -7)   
No I haven't tried anything besides the regular Ambien so far.  I see my pdoc on tuesday so I'll ask him about it.  Is that something I should really be concerned with?  The fact that even with the ambien I'm waking every hour?

getting by
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Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40603
   Posted 12/13/2009 10:10 AM (GMT -7)   
I think so. But I think that the ambien cr will help you. You need rest...

Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies


Mike619er
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 429
   Posted 12/13/2009 10:30 AM (GMT -7)   
Is that just a stronger version of ambien?  Not quite sure what that ambien cr is

getting by
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Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40603
   Posted 12/13/2009 10:38 AM (GMT -7)   
Cr is controlled release, it isn't necessarily stronger, but it is made so that you will get more medication later in the night. It is kind of spread out throughout the night for people who wake up occassionally. Talk to the doc about it.

Best wishes to you for some rest.

Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies


THE HAPPY TURTLE
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 18774
   Posted 12/14/2009 7:05 AM (GMT -7)   
mike, me struggling too buddy, jamie. see my doc later in the day........much later!! lol. jamie.
YESTERDAY IS A BUTTERLY WITHOUT WINGS. (ME)
 
DX, MDD, SEVERE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER.
 
REMEMBER TO LOVE YOU. BE YOU AND BE TRUE.


Mike619er
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 429
   Posted 12/14/2009 1:01 PM (GMT -7)   
Haha nice jamie, not that I want you to have the same problems but atleast I'm not the only one suffering sleepless nights even on this ambien stuff.  This anxiety thing is a *****, sucks when something sucker punches you and you can't swing back at it.  I've thought about bangin my head against the wall but don't think that would exactly cure the problem, might just worsen it.  And I've just gotten rid of the tension headache for the most part, just experiencing tingling lately.  I think tingling is better then pressure....

getting by
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Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40603
   Posted 12/14/2009 2:09 PM (GMT -7)   
Work on keeping your neck muscles relaxed. And shoulders, that leads to a lot of tension headaches. I use peppermint oil too.

Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies


Mike619er
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 429
   Posted 12/14/2009 2:32 PM (GMT -7)   
Thats a lot easier said then done :)  I've tried deep breathing but my body still seems to be very tense all the time

getting by
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Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40603
   Posted 12/14/2009 5:12 PM (GMT -7)   
Concentrate really hard on relaxing all of your muscles from head to toe.  Picture that muscle in your mind and focus on relaxing it.  You can do it, it just takes practice.  We all have the ability to do this, but focus can be hard.  You might have to go back and re-relax certain muscles.  I have to work really hard on my shoulders, that is my most tense spot.  Often my legs too.  I do this at night and before I get to my feet, I am usually asleep. 
 
Peppermint oil works really good to get rid of a headache.  I have a bottle that I bought years ago.  It doesn't take a lot.  Just massage it where your head hurts.  A lot of times headaches are sinus.  And we do have sinuses in the back of our heads too.  So remember that spot.  The peppermint oil is also good for muscle aches if you have them.  Plus aromatherapy.
 
Hope this helps some.
 
Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies


Tirzah
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2284
   Posted 12/14/2009 5:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Have you tried taking a warm shower before bedtime to relax your muscles? Another option might be to get some Epsom salt & follow the instructions to make a muscle soak. Then you soak & ring out washcloths or towels & lie down & relax as much as possible. It's not as good as anti-anxiety or muscle relaxants, but it does help quite a bit. :)

I wouldn't say something is horribly wrong with you if you aren't sleeping in spite of the Ambien, but I would definitely say something is wrong with that choice of sleeping medicine with you waking up so much. It seems kinda silly to leave you on a medication that doesn't work for so long. Sleeping meds are (as I understand it) designed to work in a night or two. They shouldn't take weeks to start working. Definitely let your doc know that it's not working. A lot of times they won't even need to see you to change your meds (unless you have an HMO, & then all bets are off). They can take symptoms over the phone & call in a new script to your local pharmacy. Honestly, it's probably better practice to actually see patients before changing their meds, but it certainly is more convenient to be able to just talk over the phone.

feel better,
frances
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