No good value in a depressed life

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SuperMarioGamer
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 7/16/2017 11:36 PM (GMT -6)   
I have my own personal definition of value, worth, joy, beauty, and happiness that might be different than how most people define those terms. It is my own philosophy in regards to feeling good and depression. It is a philosophy I wish to talk about. When I say in my last statement that depressed people have no good value and worth in their lives, then that is nothing more than my own worldview. I am not trying to insult anybody or shove my philosophy down other people's throats. I just want to share what is on my mind in regards to a clinically depressed life and how I see such a life.

Our good moods/feelings are not just pleasant experiences and nothing more. They are something far more and many people don't realize it. They are the actual awareness of good value, worth, joy, beauty, and happiness in our lives. When you are in a state of well being (feeling good), then that is the awareness (experience) of all the goodness and joys of this life. There is no other experience besides our good moods/feelings that can give us this awareness. Our good moods/feelings are a transcended awareness and all other experiences (forms of awareness) are nothing but mechanistic forms of awareness that give no real good value or joy to a person's life at all.

Sight and hearing are forms of awareness that allow us to visualize objects and perceive sound. You cannot give yourself sight and hearing by thinking to yourself that you can see and hear when you are blind and deaf just as how you also cannot give your life good value and happiness by thinking that your life has good value and happiness without your good moods/feelings. This means that our good moods/feelings allow us to "see" just like how sight allows us to see things. Except, sight allows us to see objects while our good moods/feelings allow us to see all the good value, beauty, and joys of this life. Empathy/strength of character does not give us the awareness of good value and worth in our lives.

It only makes us want to help others and carry on in life despite the miserable times. That is how many people are wired since it benefited our survival and the survival of others. It, along with our conditioning, deludes us into thinking that a life without good moods/feelings can still be a life that has real good value and joy to us. But this is all a lie. It is only through pleasure (feeling good) and pain (feeling bad) that we become aware of the good, the bad, the joy, the suffering, the beauty, and the happiness in our lives. Therefore, depressed and anhedonic people are living lives that have no good value, no worth, and they don't even realize it. Some actually do. But some don't and, unfortunately, still think their lives have real good value and happiness.

F27
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Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 803
   Posted 7/17/2017 1:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Interesting hypothesis SMG, although it does fall apart if you accept that value and worth are relative to the observer. In other words, you may feel worthless and without value, but if someone else feels that you have worth and value, then you have worth and value.

SuperMarioGamer
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 7/17/2017 4:46 PM (GMT -6)   
F27 said...
Interesting hypothesis SMG, although it does fall apart if you accept that value and worth are relative to the observer. In other words, you may feel worthless and without value, but if someone else feels that you have worth and value, then you have worth and value.


But what would it matter even if the person did have value and worth? The person without his/her good moods/feelings wouldn't be able to actually perceive that value and worth in his/herself. Therefore, I find your point moot.

F27
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Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 803
   Posted 7/17/2017 5:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Sorry SMG, you've changed your thesis from 'depressed people have no value' to 'depressed people are unable to perceive their own value'. I think we all can relate with your modified thesis.

How big a hole would you leave if you completely disappeared tomorrow? That's a good way to measure your value. Would your family be sad? Would your spouse miss you? Who would feed your cat?

Everyone, sick or well, has value.

SuperMarioGamer
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 7/17/2017 5:23 PM (GMT -6)   
F27 said...
Sorry SMG, you've changed your thesis from 'depressed people have no value' to 'depressed people are unable to perceive their own value'. I think we all can relate with your modified thesis.

How big a hole would you leave if you completely disappeared tomorrow? That's a good way to measure your value. Would your family be sad? Would your spouse miss you? Who would feed your cat?

Everyone, sick or well, has value.


But it would only do you good when you can actually perceive that value. Otherwise, you and your life have no value and worth to you. This would even include altruistic endeavors having no value and worth to you either. Also, that was never my thesis to begin with. But continuing on here. You say that many depressed people can relate to perceiving no value and worth in their lives. I think this actually supports my philosophy and I will explain why.

I think what is going on here is that, when a depressed person perceives no value and worth in his/her life which, by the way, many depressed people do this, then he/she is truly seeing his/her experience for what it is. But then family, friends, society, etc. comes along and conditions/deludes this individual into thinking his/her life can have good value and worth to him/her.

This puts this depressed person in a position where he/she becomes deluded from his/her inner experience and becomes falsely convinced that his/her life now has good value, joy, and happiness to him/her with no need for these good feelings and with no need for a depression free life. However, even if a person is conditioned and deluded, there might be times where he/she is able to truly see into his/her inner depressed experience again and truly see how his/her life has no good value/worth.

Post Edited (SuperMarioGamer) : 7/17/2017 5:47:16 PM (GMT-6)


F27
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 803
   Posted 7/17/2017 5:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Perhaps you should define value and worth in the context of your thesis. At our most fundamental level we provide value to the Earth simply by breathing, ergo, if we are alive, we are valuable.

You're lack of ability to perceive your value does not change the fact that you are valuable.

SuperMarioGamer
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 7/17/2017 5:42 PM (GMT -6)   
F27 said...
Perhaps you should define value and worth in the context of your thesis. At our most fundamental level we provide value to the Earth simply by breathing, ergo, if we are alive, we are valuable.

You're lack of ability to perceive your value does not change the fact that you are valuable.


But, again, why should my non perceived value matter if I can't actually perceive it? As far as I would be concerned, there really would be no value in my life at all as long as I could not perceive it. I need to actually perceive my value in order to make my life worth living. As long as I do not actually perceive the value, worth, joy, and beauty in my life, then I am living like a machine. I am having nothing more than a mechanistic state of awareness (experience).

I need to have the transcended (optimistic) state of awareness that my good moods/feelings offer me in order to make my life worth living. Without that, then there is no way I am going to live and I would just give up on life. In order for my value to matter to me, then my value must have value to me. Otherwise, you might as well consider it some sort of abstract value floating out there that I cannot have as a part of my life experience. If nothing matters to me (doesn't have any good value to me), then why would I live? Eventually, if I could not recover my good feelings, then I would end my life.

Post Edited (SuperMarioGamer) : 7/17/2017 6:28:24 PM (GMT-6)


NiceCupOfTea
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 9503
   Posted 7/17/2017 6:41 PM (GMT -6)   
I recognise this user. He's got himself tangled up in a perfect cognitive loop.

I wonder if this Oatmeal comic would help him at all? Gonna try posting it for him at any rate.

theoatmeal.com/comics/unhappy

(Sorry for the seemingly terse reply, I'm just really tired!)

SuperMarioGamer
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 7/17/2017 6:55 PM (GMT -6)   
NiceCupOfTea said...
I recognise this user. He's got himself tangled up in a perfect cognitive loop.

I wonder if this Oatmeal comic would help him at all? Gonna try posting it for him at any rate.

theoatmeal.com/comics/unhappy

(Sorry for the seemingly terse reply, I'm just really tired!)


The version of happiness you are pointing out would be having good value and worth in your life. It would be the notion that even if you didn't feel good, you still got things done in life anyway. I am saying that it is only our good moods/feelings that allow us to perceive our lives as having good value and worth to us in the first place. Therefore, good moods/feelings are the only real source of happiness.

NiceCupOfTea
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 9503
   Posted 7/17/2017 7:11 PM (GMT -6)   
I was just trying to dent the cognitive loop a little. You will drive yourself mad with it one day: it's exhausting even reading it.

I can't argue with you on your own terms; you'll always win. I'm just trying to get you to see that you don't have to stay with that same loop of thought forever. For whatever it's worth I've had plenty of thoughts about the meaningless of my own life; I find if I think about that for longer than a few minutes I start to go down a dark hole, so I just... don't. Easier said than done, I know, but not impossible.
Dx Crohn's in June 2000. (Yay skull)
Tried: 5-ASAs, azathioprine, 6MP, Remicade, methotrexate, Humira, diets.
1st surgery 20/2/13 - subtotal colectomy with end ileostomy.
2nd surgery 10/7/15 - ileorectal anastomosis. Stoma reversed and ileum connected to the rectum.
Current status: Chronic flare. Do I have any other kind?
Current meds: 50mg 6MP; Entyvio (started 3/11/16)

BnotAfraid
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Apr 2012
Total Posts : 6946
   Posted 7/17/2017 7:42 PM (GMT -6)   
SMG,SMG....

How many times must we get up on this debate soap box?

Truly, I would and others here want to help you! As proven be the compassionate responses you have received.

You talk in an infinity cycle about worth.

I propose you talk to a THERAPIST, YOUR DOCTOR, A PSYCHIATRIST OR PSYCHOLOGIST.

In the mean time, here is the Webster defination:

Worth
noun
Definition of worth
1
a : monetary value farmhouse and lands of little worth
b : the equivalent of a specified amount or figure a dollar's worth of gas
2
: the value of something measured by its qualities or by the esteem in which it is held a literary heritage of great worth
3
a : moral or personal value trying to teach human worth
b : merit, excellence a field in which we have proved our worth
4
: wealth, riches

Examples of worth in a Sentence

A diamond's worth is determined partly by its cut and clarity.
The worth of the stocks has increased.
The furniture was of little worth since it was in such bad condition.
He has proved his worth to the team.
The book has proved its worth by saving me hundreds of dollars.


All this, and everything before, being said. I am locking this thread.

It will inevitably end in snips and snaps with no clarity at the end.

Peace
Trina
Moderator - Depression

"...when the gift of sight is cause enough for jubilation."
Billy Collins from the poem. HIGH

DX: reverse Trigeminal Neuralgia;Cluster headaches; Atypical face pain;Hemicrania Continua; raynauds;complex PTSD; recurring MDD,disassociative disorder;
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