I am angry/frustrated and need to vent

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SuperMarioGamer
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Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 33
   Posted 7/28/2017 8:48 AM (GMT -6)   
Summary of My Philosophy (Spiritual Universe): I do not believe in god, the afterlife, and the paranormal. I am undecided and keep an open mind. But I am going to use a spiritual metaphor/analogy anyway to get my point across. This analogy can also apply to a purely naturalistic universe where there is no god, afterlife, or paranormal. You would just have to change the analogy up a bit in your mind so that it suits a purely naturalistic universe. So, here is the analogy. The divine light energy of god is sheer intrinsic goodness, joy, love, happiness, and beauty.

This is not a value judgment. This is what the light energy of god truly is. God wanted us as his human creations to have this divine light in our lives as some form of conscious awareness. That awareness would be our positive emotions. It is only through having our positive emotions that we can perceive goodness, joy, love, happiness, and beauty in our lives. If this divine light gets taken away such as due to depression, emotional trauma, or any other factor, then we lose the light in our lives and we can no longer see anything good or beautiful anymore. We would either be perceiving nothing but darkness (the bad qualities of life) or perceiving nothing good or bad at all. No value judgment, mindset, way of thinking, or attitude alone can give our lives any real perceived good value in the absence of the divine light.

Summary of My Philosophy (Naturalistic Universe): Qualities such as good value, bad value, suffering, joy, love, beauty, hate, etc. are the higher qualities. In order to perceive these qualities, then that requires a higher (transcended) form of awareness. That awareness would be our emotions. It is only the positive emotions that allow us to perceive the positive qualities while it is only our negative emotions that allow us to perceive the negative qualities. Having neither positive nor negative emotions can only allow us to perceive basic qualities such as knowing that your microwave is running, seeing the trees outside, knowing certain concepts, ideas, and subjects, etc. It doesn't matter what mindset, value judgments, thoughts, and beliefs you have of your life possessing these perceived qualities in the absence of your emotions; you still cannot perceive them without your emotions.

Our consciousness possesses intrinsic qualities that give our lives the perception of good value, bad value, joy, beauty, suffering, happiness, and misery. These intrinsic qualities would be our positive and negative emotions. If I have chosen to get something done in my life without my positive emotions and I thought that it was something good and worthwhile to me, then that good value and worth would be completely bland and stale. Therefore, it wouldn't be any real good value and worth perceived in my life. As you can see here, there is a big difference between what we think as opposed to what something is actually like for us. If you thought that you were having the most joyful time of your life when, in reality, the intrinsic quality of this was bland and stale for you, then you wouldn't be having any real joy in your life.

Post Edited (SuperMarioGamer) : 8/16/2017 2:33:00 PM (GMT-6)


F27
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Date Joined Feb 2016
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   Posted 7/28/2017 1:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey SMG, glad you came back.

I don't know what to say. I've read your words, and understand how they are true from your perspective. I hope that you can find some mystical apples tucked away in an unexplored corner so that you can feel that magical joy that we all crave.

Take care of yourself.

F27

SuperMarioGamer
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Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 33
   Posted 7/28/2017 1:58 PM (GMT -6)   
F27 said...
Hey SMG, glad you came back.

I don't know what to say. I've read your words, and understand how they are true from your perspective. I hope that you can find some mystical apples tucked away in an unexplored corner so that you can feel that magical joy that we all crave.

Take care of yourself.

F27


I'm glad you are the first one to respond to my explanation/story. This is actually my most important topic because it perfectly conveys my worldview unlike my other ones. I just hope that others will become interested and respond to it as well.

F27
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Date Joined Feb 2016
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   Posted 7/28/2017 3:05 PM (GMT -6)   
I like interacting with you SMG, you challenge me.

How long has your worldview been evolving? I ask because my worldview has changed significantly over the years. For instance, I'm far more spiritual than I once was - primarily because science, specifically quantum theory, has given me a less ephemeral way of looking at intangible concepts.

SuperMarioGamer
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 33
   Posted 7/28/2017 3:10 PM (GMT -6)   
F27 said...
I like interacting with you SMG, you challenge me.

How long has your worldview been evolving? I ask because my worldview has changed significantly over the years. For instance, I'm far more spiritual than I once was - primarily because science, specifically quantum theory, has given me a less ephemeral way of looking at intangible concepts.


I have always had this worldview my whole entire life. I just could not find a way to perfectly articulate it. All my previous attempts had failed. However, I think I have finally hit the jackpot with this one.

F27
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Date Joined Feb 2016
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   Posted 7/28/2017 3:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Good for you, SMG. Self awareness is important, and it's integral that we keep pushing ourselves to attain it.

Congratulations on your success!

SuperMarioGamer
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 33
   Posted 7/28/2017 4:40 PM (GMT -6)   
F27 said...
Good for you, SMG. Self awareness is important, and it's integral that we keep pushing ourselves to attain it.

Congratulations on your success!


As for everything I have explained to you, do you not realize that this could be a revolution that could change the world? I have finally come to the realization that value judgments do not give any real perceived good value to our lives and that it is only our good moods/feelings that do. I don't think anybody realizes this. It could change the world and help encourage people to find cures for depression and other illnesses that take away our good moods/feelings.

theHTreturns...
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
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   Posted 7/28/2017 7:26 PM (GMT -6)   
perception and assumption of perceived value for the individual is such as you state, one aspect of many a view, however i acknowledge your view, and i see it pains you that others do not subscribe to it.

SuperMarioGamer
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Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 33
   Posted 7/28/2017 8:19 PM (GMT -6)   
theHTreturns... said...
perception and assumption of perceived value for the individual is such as you state, one aspect of many a view, however i acknowledge your view, and i see it pains you that others do not subscribe to it.


Exactly. The most harmful and cruel sociopath can think and believe that he/she loves his/her family, but he/she has no idea what love is. He/she would not be perceiving any real love towards his/her family at all. In that same sense, people just have no idea what good value, worth, joy, beauty, inspiration, and happiness really are. They would not be perceiving any of those qualities without their good moods/feelings.

Post Edited (SuperMarioGamer) : 7/28/2017 10:38:33 PM (GMT-6)


getting by
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Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 41709
   Posted 7/29/2017 6:35 AM (GMT -6)   
My question for SuperMarioGamer...

Why does it make a difference what other people think? Live your life for you. If you are happy, then you are happy. That is all that matters...
Moderator-Depression


fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression, allergies

NiceCupOfTea
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Date Joined Jan 2010
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   Posted 7/29/2017 6:55 PM (GMT -6)   
I sort of know where you are coming from, I think.

I had two weeks earlier on in the year where I was happy. The only trigger for it was stopping my antidepressant. To cut a long story short, I went back on the antidepressant, felt sh!t again, stopped it again, but that time the happiness never returned.

It wasn't euphoria or mania - it was just simple happiness without being overwhelming. And god do I miss it. I can function, but I feel like I'm a robot most of the time - just going through the motions of life without ever deeply enjoying anything. I'm chronically anxious, which is like cyanide to happiness. I can try to distract myself from the anxiety and depression, but it doesn't get rid of it, so I am never really happy.

Sorry, I've got absolutely nothing positive to offer you. I certainly don't have any solutions. I do think it's possible to find purpose and meaning in life without being particularly happy, but at the same time it does suck to never really get any pleasure out of anything either.
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ambling
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Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 616
   Posted 7/30/2017 8:29 PM (GMT -6)   
There is a great deal of importance in what you say SMG. There is also importance in realising that the world is filled with 'other' beings.
It is a shame to ignore the great joy that comes from interactions with beings other than yourself.
What do you love, other than yourself?

SuperMarioGamer
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 33
   Posted 7/31/2017 9:45 AM (GMT -6)   
ambling said...
There is a great deal of importance in what you say SMG. There is also importance in realising that the world is filled with 'other' beings.
It is a shame to ignore the great joy that comes from interactions with beings other than yourself.
What do you love, other than yourself?


I do interact with other people. I wouldn't want to be alone. But, like I said, it is only through my good moods/feelings such as being excited and having fun playing sports or doing hobbies with my friends and family that brings my life the perceptual experience of good value/worth. So, you are wrong when you say that I prefer to be all alone.

ambling
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Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 616
   Posted 7/31/2017 9:59 AM (GMT -6)   
I did not say you prefer to be all alone. I asked what you love, other than yourself. Good luck.

SuperMarioGamer
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 33
   Posted 7/31/2017 10:01 AM (GMT -6)   
ambling said...
I did not say you prefer to be all alone. I asked what you love, other than yourself. Good luck.


Well, first off, I need my good moods/feelings to experience love because, according to my story/analogue, my good moods/feelings are everything to life and they are the only things that can give me the perceptual awareness (experience) of good value, worth, joy, beauty, and love in my life. I love my hobbies, going out in nature, learning how to compose, etc.

RobLee
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 369
   Posted 7/31/2017 10:22 AM (GMT -6)   
Something that's been mentioned a few times in this thread is the duality of happiness and sadness, joy and sorrow... elation and depression. I have noted in my life that my darkest moments have usually come right after some extremely happy experience. I am neither manic nor depressive by nature. My recent venture into psychotropic medication is the first in my life. Three months now on Effexor I've had fewer crying episodes, but zero explosions. I am on a more even keel. It's unfortunate that in order to keep myself out of the pit of despair, I have also had to sacrifice the soaring heights of elation. I'm just trying to keep my head above water.

Post Edited (RobLee) : 8/1/2017 5:20:39 AM (GMT-6)


SuperMarioGamer
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 33
   Posted 7/31/2017 4:26 PM (GMT -6)   
I am going to express what's on my mind in regards to how I see a depressed life. I will present it in the form of a hypothesis/philosophy as well as a brief explanation:

Hypothesis/Philosophy: Our good moods/feelings (which I define as the states of well being induced by the various feel-good neurotransmitters/chemicals in the brain) are the only things that can give our lives a real perceptual quality (experience) of good value, worth, joy, beauty, love, inspiration, and happiness. A person cannot become perceptually aware of these qualities without his/her good moods/feelings since, again, our good moods/feelings are the perceptual awareness of these qualities. You could, in a way, consider our good moods/feelings to be a divine spiritual light to our lives, so to speak. This divine light engulfs us and puts us in a divine state of awareness where we become truly aware of all those aforementioned qualities.

But when this divine state of conscious awareness is taken away from us, we can no longer experience (become aware) of these qualities of good value, worth, joy, beauty, and happiness in our lives. Now, when I say that these good moods/feelings sustain this perceptual quality of good value/worth in our lives, this perceptual quality is not a thought/outlook at all. As I said before, thoughts/outlooks alone do not give us this perceptual quality in our lives. This means that our good moods/feelings do not have some sort of mind control effect where they force us to perceive through our thinking that our lives have good value/worth to us. Rather, the good moods/feelings themselves are an actual awareness of good value/worth in our lives. Like I said earlier, I metaphorically described it as some sort of divine transcended awareness. When I say awareness, I mean something like sight. Sight is the perceptual awareness of visualizing objects just as how our good moods/feelings are the perceptual awareness of good value/worth in our lives.

Brief Explanation: You see, I do not have these happy chemicals at all during my moments of traumatic induced misery/despair. Nothing I do can produce even the smallest amount of these happy chemicals. This is because my brain is in a completely traumatized state and, thus, all these chemicals are turned off. It is only once I reach a state of full recovery that these chemicals get turned back on, restoring my perceptual experience of good value, worth, joy, and beauty back into my life again. That is where my whole theory/philosophy was getting at. I was saying that it can only be the good moods/feelings (the happy chemical induced states of well being) that can give our lives the perceptual quality of good value/worth. But many people out there say you don't need these happy chemicals and that there are other ways to perceive your life as having good value/worth and happiness to you anyway. Like I said, I disagree with this perceptual standard of good value/worth and happiness. I think it is fake and doesn't give a person's life any real perceptual experience of good value/worth. I instead agree with the "divine light" standard I talked about above (i.e. the good mood/feeling standard).

Thinking and believing that you can see the good value/worth in your life is not the same thing as actually seeing it just as how a blind person thinking and believing he/she can see is not the same thing as actual sight. You need actual sight to see just as how you need your good moods/feelings to truly see the good value/worth in your life. Everything in my life is completely dead, miserable, the worst hell, and insignificant in these miserable states. I do not agree that this is simply a matter of value judgment on my part judging this miserable life as hell, lacking of good value/worth, etc. I truly think it is the feel-good chemicals being restored and my misery recovering that restores my perceptual experience of good value, worth, and happiness in my life just as how a blind person is able to recover and see again. There are, for example, people who have taken antidepressants which have completely wiped out these chemicals. They report that they are in a completely blank state as though a hard drive has been completely wiped clean. From there, friends, family, and others would just give the recommendation to this person that he/she can still perceive good value/worth in his/her life through making the best of things anyway and through judging his/her life as good/worthwhile to him/her anyway. I disagree with this. I think it is all a lie and that we truly need our good moods/feelings.

Post Edited (SuperMarioGamer) : 7/31/2017 10:39:18 PM (GMT-6)


RobLee
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Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 369
   Posted 7/31/2017 5:32 PM (GMT -6)   
So what happened to the whole mystical apple/metal apple thing?

theHTreturns...
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Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 19782
   Posted 8/1/2017 1:51 AM (GMT -6)   
regardless of right or wrong this is smg's view. best let it be.

pitmom
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   Posted 8/2/2017 9:15 AM (GMT -6)   
SMG...I've been considering what you've been attempting to get across to people. The closest I can come to for myself is the damage I've done to my tastebuds. Everything is losing its flavor. I don't get 'excited' about any particular food anymore. I must eat, that is a fact. I don't 'enjoy' eating much anymore. Due to the loss of teeth, some of the foods I used to enjoy are not possible for me anymore. So, know that my brain is trying to wrap itself around your viewpoint.
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SuperMarioGamer
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Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 33
   Posted 8/2/2017 4:12 PM (GMT -6)   
pitmom said...
SMG...I've been considering what you've been attempting to get across to people. The closest I can come to for myself is the damage I've done to my tastebuds. Everything is losing its flavor. I don't get 'excited' about any particular food anymore. I must eat, that is a fact. I don't 'enjoy' eating much anymore. Due to the loss of teeth, some of the foods I used to enjoy are not possible for me anymore. So, know that my brain is trying to wrap itself around your viewpoint.


Here, let me give you something else in an attempt to make my worldview clear:

I think people need their good moods/feelings (their feel-good chemical/neurotransmitter induced states of well being) to allow them to perceive (see) the good value, joy, beauty, happiness, love, and worth in their lives. I don't think our way of thinking, our outlooks, actions, and our value judgments alone allow us to truly see these qualities. I don't think we can experience any of these qualities without our good moods/feelings. I would like to add one last thing here. That is, this view of mine has been an issue for me and I wish to talk it out if you don't mind.

Post Edited (SuperMarioGamer) : 8/2/2017 8:03:06 PM (GMT-6)


getting by
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   Posted 8/2/2017 6:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Why not? I have been in a not so good mood and then noticed something (in nature) that put me in a good mood. I appreciated the beauty even though I wasn't feeling good. It changed the way I felt.
Moderator-Depression


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SuperMarioGamer
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Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 33
   Posted 8/2/2017 6:29 PM (GMT -6)   
getting by said...
Why not? I have been in a not so good mood and then noticed something (in nature) that put me in a good mood. I appreciated the beauty even though I wasn't feeling good. It changed the way I felt.


It was only during that moment you were in a good mood that you could experience the beauty. But without any good moods whatsoever, then you cannot experience the beauty. This is because our good moods are, what I would metaphorically describe, as a divine transcended awareness. Our way of thinking and judgments alone without our good moods simply do not meet this divine standard. It is nothing in comparison and this is not a value judgment on my part because the good moods possess some divine intrinsic quality of experience that gives our lives the perceptual experience of joy, beauty, etc. Without this divine quality, then we are like spiritual beings who have been stripped of our higher spiritual component. Take note that when I am talking about the divine and spiritual, I only mean this as an analogy to make my point clear.

It is an analogy that would apply both to a spiritual universe and a purely naturalistic universe. For a purely naturalistic universe, you would just have to change my analogy a bit. To put it shortly, our thoughts/outlooks alone without our good moods simply do not possess the quality of experience that is needed to give our lives a real perceptual experience of good value, worth, joy, and beauty. Our thoughts/outlooks alone possess no quality for us. They might be thoughts in regards to certain qualities such as "My life is still beautiful and worth living to me anyway even though I don't feel good." However, such a thought without our good moods does not possess any quality of experience for us. It is only our good moods which possess the good quality that is needed to make our lives good to us. This is not a value judgment when I say that these good moods possess this good quality. Rather, this is an intrinsic quality that our good moods have.

Post Edited (SuperMarioGamer) : 8/2/2017 7:06:19 PM (GMT-6)


ambling
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Date Joined Feb 2011
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   Posted 8/3/2017 5:58 AM (GMT -6)   
You seem to be saying that only in a good mood can you feel good. That is somewhat rhetorical.

Maybe you can extend that view? As getting by has said, external forces can change your mood. There doesn't need to be any good thoughts or mood at that moment. Noticing that something external has touched you is enough. Using feelings to sense the outside world, or even yourself, can change moods.

BnotAfraid
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Date Joined Apr 2012
Total Posts : 7087
   Posted 8/4/2017 10:56 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi RobLee

Think the 'apples' may be in a black hole.

I am reading the July 2017 Vol.317 NUMBER1 of Scientific American magazine.

on page 39 there is an article that might explain SMG's thought process scientifically.

There are some Theoretical Physicists and Cosmologigists awfully happy and ancipitory over this.

Article entitled "Black Holes, from the beginning of time"

"in Brief"

"The nature of dark matter-the invisible material that holds galaxies together by its gravity-is a deep cosmic enigma.
Many researchers suspect dark matter is made of Weakly-Interacting-Massive-Particles and have been seeking them in experiments.

But to date, no such 'WIMPS' have been found.

"Primordial" black holes that may have formed shortly after the Big Bang are an alternative candidate for dark matter. Yet these too, have so far eluded detection.

More evidence for primordial black holes may emerge in new data from gravitational-wave detectors and other observatories.

If confirmed to exist, these objects could solve the mystery of dark matter and several other cosmic conundrums"


like perhaps, feelings or awareness of feelings make us happy or sad

and of course there is, since the beginning of man, 'which came first, the chicken or the egg"

I rest my case.

Peace
Trina
Moderator - Depression

"...when the gift of sight is cause enough for jubilation."
Billy Collins from the poem. HIGH

DX: reverse Trigeminal Neuralgia;Cluster headaches; Atypical face pain;Hemicrania Continua; raynauds;complex PTSD; recurring MDD,disassociative disorder;
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