I was bored this weekend ...

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TVEditor
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 481
   Posted 1/25/2010 4:38 PM (GMT -7)   
... so I decided to take a ride in an ambulance and spend most of Saturday in the Emergency Department with a kidney stone. For those that haven't had this malady, I don't recommend it. (very painful)

Now I am waiting for the passing (such a benign word isn't it?) of the stone and taking 4 more pills a day. As it turns out, us Type 2's are prone to kidney stones:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/41112.php

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0876/is_94/ai_n21041480/

Thanks again Diabetes! (not! ;-)

Doing some more reading; some of the BAD things that contribute to stone formation are Crystal Lite (powdered drink mixes), diet sodas (colas in particular), coffee, and animal protein. Hmmm ... that's about 13/15 of my diet ... back to the drawing board ;-) Things that keep the stones away? Citric acid (lemon juice, apple cider vinegar), magnesium and zinc (magnesium depletes zinc so you need extra zinc)

Rats! I had just picked my Quit-Smoking Date (to coincide with me entering the upcoming Winter Olympics) and complete my Healthy Me Plan. (will still do that anyway)

Sorry, I'm a little discouraged ... but getting better :-)

If life hands you lemons, make .... lemon-flavored water ;-)
Chris - Forum Moderator, Diabetes

~ Diagnosed Type 2 in July 2008 ~ Dropped 53 or so pounds after following HealingWell advice ~
~ Diabetes under control / no meds - so far - knock on head

I used to eat 100% wrong -- now I eat 95% right


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5397
   Posted 1/25/2010 7:06 PM (GMT -7)   
Ugh, Chris.  You have my sympathy.  I haven't had a kidney stone but have known people who have and I know it's excruciating.  I was looking up the minerals and it seems magnesium is found in great quantities in almonds and cashews and other nuts, peanuts, and spinach - they seem to be at the top of the list.  That's good!  And zinc, well, besides meat and seafood, beans and cheese.  Maybe lather on Desitin?  tongue   Hope you're feeling better.  smile
Lanie
 
forum moderator - diabetes
diabetes controlled so far by exercise and a low/no carb diet


petunia22
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 48
   Posted 1/26/2010 4:48 AM (GMT -7)   
Sorry about the kidney stone! Ouch. I had one once.  You are so right about making lemonade..I dug out something I had read before:  This is from 2006:
 
  WebMD)  <!-- sphereit start-->If life gives you kidney stones, make lemonade.

New research shows that lemonade is an effective — and delicious — way for kidney-stone-prone people to slow the development of new stones.

"When treating patients in our kidney stone center, we put everyone on lemonade therapy," says Steven Y. Nakada, chair and professor of urology at the University of Wisconsin, Madison.

Nakada spoke during a news conference on kidney stone research at this week's annual meeting of the American Urological Association in Atlanta.

Stones As Painful As Childbirth

If you've ever passed a kidney stone, you won't forget the sudden, intense pain in your flank. Some patients compare the pain with that of childbirth.
Kidney stones form when urine in the kidney becomes supersaturated with stone-forming salts — and when the urine doesn't contain enough stone-preventing substances. One of these substances is citrate.

For people prone to stones, doctors usually prescribe potassium citrate. It can be taken as a pill or in liquid form. But lemon juice is full of natural citrate.

When made into low-sugar or sugar-free lemonade, Nakada and colleagues found, lemon juice increases the amount of citrate in the urine to levels known to inhibit kidney stones. It doesn't work quite as well as potassium citrate. But for patients who'd rather avoid yet another medication, lemonade is an attractive alternative.

"The trend is going to be, if you can make a change in your diet and avoid medications, you are going to try to do that," Nakada said. "We see lemonade therapy as playing a role."

David Kang, a medical student and researcher at the Duke University Comprehensive Kidney Stone Center, found that this role can play for a long time. Kang and colleagues followed 12 kidney-stone patients who had been on lemonade therapy for up to four years.

Over the time they drank lemonade they had a lower burden of kidney stones and appeared to form kidney stones at a slower rate than they did before starting lemonade therapy. Kang says a large-scale clinical trial will be needed to confirm these findings.

"None of the patients needed medical intervention over a mean treatment period of four years," Kang said.

How Much Lemonade?

Lemonade also does something else needed by people prone to kidney stones. It helps them pass a lot of urine, said conference moderator Marshall Stoller, MD, vice chairman of urology and medical director of the urinary stone center at the University of California, San Francisco.

"To reduce kidney stones, you have to increase your fluid intake so that you pass 1.5 to 2 liters of urine a day," Stoller said. "If you live in sunny Atlanta, you may need to drink more than if you live in foggy San Francisco."

To make lemonade, Stoller, Nakada, and Kang recommend mixing 1 cup of concentrated lemon juice with 7 cups of water. A sugar substitute may be added to taste. Sugar should be avoided, as the extra calories in sugared lemonade are too much for most people's health.

Diet and Kidney Stones

But lemonade alone isn't the answer to kidney stones. It's only part of a stone-preventing diet.

"First, you should reduce the amount of salt in the diet," Stoller says. "Get rid of the salt shaker at the table. Use a potassium-based salt substitute. If you have a choice of two products, go to the one with less salt. Eat out less — restaurant food is salty — and never salt your food before tasting it."

Second on Stoller's stone-prevention diet is eating smaller portions of meat and fish at each meal.

"We are not saying to eat less meat, just eat less at individual meals," he says.

"Where does lemonade fit in? If you drink and enjoy lemonade, it gives you an additional benefit," Stoller says.

SOURCES: American Urological Association, annual meeting, Atlanta, May 20-25, 2006; abstracts 1038 and 1537. Marshall Stoller, MD, vice chairman of urology and medical director, urinary stone center, University of California, San Francisco. Steven Nakada, MD, chair and professor of urology, University of Wisconsin, Madison. David Kang, Duke University Comprehensive Kidney Stone Center.
 
 

TVEditor
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 481
   Posted 1/26/2010 7:19 AM (GMT -7)   
Yes, feeling better now. Actually, I was feeling better once the pain stopped on Saturday night. Unbelievable pain. I'm a real anti-drug kind of guy but when the attending doc told me he was going to give me morphine, I didn't refuse.

I was fortunate to get a good crew that night -- the 4'2", Doogie Howser-ette nurse (why does everyone look so young these days?!? ;-) really knew her stuff and the doc quickly figured out what was going on.

OK, back to work on the New Diabetes/Anti-Kidney Stone Diet. I suspect the list of foods will be short -- nuts sprinkled with apple cider, lemonade and water.

Well, at least I'll be saving time on trips to the grocery store ;-)

Thanks for all the encouragement and advice :-)

P.S. Thanks petunia for the lemonade recipe :-)
Chris - Forum Moderator, Diabetes

~ Diagnosed Type 2 in July 2008 ~ Dropped 53 or so pounds after following HealingWell advice ~
~ Diabetes under control / no meds - so far - knock on head

I used to eat 100% wrong -- now I eat 95% right


loverain
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 218
   Posted 1/26/2010 7:22 AM (GMT -7)   
Is it safe to take a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar with a glass of water once or twice a day? I am low carbing and my PP numbers are great...but still having high FBGs. I've tried before bedtime snacks, etc and still high FBG in the range of 110-118. I am not taking any meds. I have heard of apple cider vinegar lowering BG and a friend told me to take a tablespoon with a glass of water before going to bed. I haven't tried it because I don't know if it's safe to do so.

LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5397
   Posted 1/26/2010 1:38 PM (GMT -7)   
There's nothing unsafe about apple cider vinegar.  In our house we use it for salad dressing, mixed with olive oil.  Here's an article about it:  http://nutrition.suite101.com/article.cfm/apple_cider_vinegar_helps_diabetes_control
Keep in mind that different people may have different experiences.  Keep a log of your blood sugar readings before and after to see if there are any benefits for you.


Lanie
 
forum moderator - diabetes
diabetes controlled so far by exercise and a low/no carb diet


loverain
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 218
   Posted 1/26/2010 8:05 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for your reply, Lanie. I also want to thank you for the article...I found it to be very informative. I'm going to try the vinegar tonight. I know it will not take the place of eating low carb and getting plenty of exercise and getting needed sleep. I also have anxiety and stress I have to address as I know that can make BGLs higher. But I am hopeful the vinegar will benefit me. I like the idea of using it as a salad dressing. I've never used ACV before and will try it on my salads. I'm 63 years old and learning something new every day! Joni

Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 1/26/2010 9:18 PM (GMT -7)   
Loverain,
Your fastings are WONDERFUL! Don't be so hard on yourself.

TV... Been there, done that, had the surgeries and have the 10 inch scar to prove it. I make a different type of stone, a calcium oxalate stone, and they are generally two to three centimeters and lodged in the kidney where they have to be cut out. This is even more fun than passing the pea sized ones at home, which I have also done. I especially like the part where you are crawling around on your hands and knees puking from the pain.

I take hydrochlorothyazide in a very low dose for its side effect. It makes the kidneys retain calcium in the blood stream so it doesn't spill over in the urine and form stones. This lowers potassium levels so I have to eat bananas or oranges every day. Kidney stones are much worse than labor pains, believe me. Not fun. Hope you have seen the last of them.
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. ~Mother Teresa

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


TVEditor
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 481
   Posted 1/27/2010 5:59 AM (GMT -7)   
... the part where you are crawling around on your hands and knees puking from the pain.

OK, so I'm not the only one that went through that. And here I was worried about people seeing a grown man cry wink
Chris - Forum Moderator, Diabetes

~ Diagnosed Type 2 in July 2008 ~ Dropped 53 or so pounds after following HealingWell advice ~
~ Diabetes under control / no meds - so far - knock on head

I used to eat 100% wrong -- now I eat 95% right


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5397
   Posted 1/27/2010 6:05 AM (GMT -7)   
P.S. Jeannie, the hydrocholorothyazide is raise blood sugar - you know that, right?
Lanie
 
forum moderator - diabetes
diabetes controlled so far by exercise and a low/no carb diet


Phishbowl
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 547
   Posted 1/27/2010 12:59 PM (GMT -7)   
Gosh dern it all, Chris. Sorry to hear you got thrown a bushel full of lemons. What else do you do but make lemonade? Never had 'em but took my Bro to the ER twice for them. First time he thought he was dying so I can just imagine the pain you went through. So glad to hear you're feeling much better now. Curious... what do you have to stay away from in the NWBC diet?

Kris
Cheers,
- Phishbowl (Type 1 since Jan'05 - Levemir, NovoRapid)
"What's Not Measured Is Not Managed"

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"-Epictetus


TVEditor
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 481
   Posted 1/29/2010 6:49 AM (GMT -7)   
I'm still waiting for the stone to pass so that it can be determined what type it is but here's an excerpt from a Mayo Clinic article:

"if you tend to form calcium oxalate stones, your doctor may recommend restricting foods rich in oxalates. These include rhubarb, star fruit, beets, beet greens, collards, okra, refried beans, spinach, Swiss chard, sweet potatoes, sesame seeds, almonds and soy products. What's more, studies show that an overall diet low in salt and very low in animal protein can greatly reduce your chance of developing kidney stones. "

Although I've thrown out my salt shaker, I still eat some items that will have to be cut out or down (bacon for example) and I do enjoy a tenderloin steak (animal protein) once in a while. The jury's not in yet but I've never had kidney stones before and since the only thing I've changed recently is my diet, I suspect there is something in it that is the cause.
Chris - Forum Moderator, Diabetes

~ Diagnosed Type 2 in July 2008 ~ Dropped 53 or so pounds after following HealingWell advice ~
~ Diabetes under control / no meds - so far - knock on head

I used to eat 100% wrong -- now I eat 95% right


petunia22
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 48
   Posted 1/29/2010 7:44 AM (GMT -7)   
I was advised to go on a low calcium diet following my kidney stone umpteen years ago, which I did.. Guess what? I have osteoporosis now.. Nutrition is comlicated and I"m not so sure sometimes about the recommendations doctors make re: food.

Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 1/29/2010 10:31 AM (GMT -7)   
Petunia, that's what happened to me, too!!! Where I live in Michigan there are a kabillion urologists in the phone book because we have very high calcium content in the water and everyone knows someone who has kidney stones. Doc told me if we took all the kids off milk and just gave them Michigan water, Vitamin D and Vitamin A they would grow up big an strong and never miss the milk!

Lanie, I"ve been on the hydrodiuril for over 35 years so I'm not so concerned about my sugars at this point. The stones I get are so large that they actually can kill kidney tissue. Once I started on 25 mg a day I quit making stones. Tried to go down to 12.5 for a year and promptly made two rocks that I passed at home... Don't want to go there any more. The pain is beyond belief.
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. ~Mother Teresa

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

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