Progressive or Not?

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AM_BD
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 12/30/2005 10:29 PM (GMT -7)   
Dear All,

Since I have been diagnosed with type 2 at 22, the major question that really haunts me is whether I am fighting a loosing battle. I have observed Jeannie mentioning, at multiple instances, that diabetes is progressive. But, others have commented that with good exercise+diet+medications diabetes can be definitely stopped or even reversed.

I would like to hear everyones comments on this. I must mention that since diagnosed, I have achieved normal BS with only diet and moderate exercise.

Regards,

AM_BD

desertdiabetic
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 115
   Posted 12/30/2005 10:47 PM (GMT -7)   
I am just as curious as you are on this. The experts no matter their take on the treatment agree that it is progressive. What they don't say is what makes it progressive. By that I mean they don't have any actual cause and affect reasons for the progression that you can relate to your own case. They do say that if you keep yourself in control you will at the least slow the progression. i don't think they really understand anyway.

You could very well be at the point where you can reverse it. If you are controlling with diet and moderate exercise with no medications they it sure sounds like it. I believe that if you make your lifes goal to reverse this situation and go to a very controlled situation and not just a good control you can have a very good chance of reversing this. What I would recomment is take that moderate exercise and go up a stage or two. Take exercise serious and it will get easier. I have found what they say about the more you exercise the more you want to do. It feels good even if it does tire you out... The time spent in the gym may pay off in many years without diabetes. Beside a longer healthier life. I think everybody agrees with this. At your age there might be some form of a cure for you. The longer you can be healthy the better chance you will have of beating it.

Don't take this serious and you will face what so many of us already are confronting. I know two people in my family that have lost their sight because they did not get with the program. One of them died from heart failure because of diabetes. I cannot stress enough - take this serious and make it your life's goal to beat this and you probably will. I suggest you google Richard Bernstein. He is not for most people. His approach is not what I think you should read - it is more the information about the diabetes treatment overall that you should have a working knowledge of.
type 2 - dx 12/04
metformin 500mg 3x - avanda 2mg 2x


AM_BD
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 12/31/2005 4:51 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks desertdiabetic for your reply. What you have said sounds pretty convincing & rational. I have already taken up gym and intend to work-out there everyday for approx. 1hr. In fact, recently my father pointed out that diabetics who indeed take good care of their BS, tend to live longer because while attempting to keep their BS under control, they maintain a good diet and exercise regimen. Therefore, when you are old, you are possibly in a better shape then many of your contemporaries. However, all this is contingent upon your degree of control.

Does others subscribe to this particular point of view?

Regards,

AM_BD

steven k
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 12/31/2005 6:40 PM (GMT -7)   
I don't understand what you mean by reverse. This will never go away. You can only keep it under very tight control. Go back to your mindless eating and leave everything to chance and throw caution to the wind it will just pop up right again. There are I'm sure plenty of diabetic people die from unrelated diseases who live to a ripe old age and die from other things. Many people keep it under control their whole lives. It's progressive if you let it be. People don't go blind in 1 day or loose their legs in 1 day. There are plenty of warning signs along the way, like constant moment in time bad glucose, constant bad A1C The purpose is to take the information, corelate it with what you are doing and make adjustments. This is not like catching a cold, a headache, or acid indigestion. But it is careful, meticulous, painsteaking, paying attention to small details. It's the ultimate in self help. It's constant naviagation, using, glucose meter, weight scale, diest scale,exercise equipment. You are both the navagator and the pilot. You are on a lifetime journey. Keep making adjustments and keep the plane on course and try to hit the landing strip. You've got some people so good at manuplating food to control blood sugar and weight not only can they hit the air strip they can hit the X on the airstrip. Think control and containment not cure

steven k
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 12/31/2005 7:26 PM (GMT -7)   
I think controlling diabetis is a specialized skill that you can only learn from experiencing it. You don't learn this from reading a book or going to classes or other people. No 2 people are alike. Everyone is on a different playing field. Some produce more insulin, some utilize their insulin better, our bodies all react different to different foods. You have to know yourself. You have to look into the window of your body. There is anawful lot of help out there if you want it and know where to look. library, message, boards, websites, book stores. First we have to learn what to do and than more important be willing to do it. This is no job for a person with a poor work ethic. Imean I monitor, glucose, I monitor weight, I weigh and measure food, I exercise 7 days a week 1 hour per day. It's a full time job. I've had to change my behavior from eating by the clock to eating how I feel. The crux of the matter if you can't live on a specific amount of food in a 24 hour cycle you can't control diatbetis bcause of insulin resistance and imparied insulin production and probably most of us have a slow or sluggish metabolic rate. It's not a matter of playing a good hand. It is a matter of playing a bad hand good. You have to know when to eat, what to eat,how much to eat, when to take meds, or insulin , when the best time to exercise. There is a whole science to this. You have to be your own Doctor. You want to make sure you treat the patient properly,or you could be sued for malpractice or God forbid maybe something worst could happen This is a specialized skill I must reinterate I've had diabetis for 7 years and it started getting worst, (A1C) I'm still a rookie,but I thought it was timed to step up to the plate. Just trying to absorb it all. It can get mind boggelling I'm just trying to do the best I can with what I've got. You need to be part,biochemist,part endocrinoligist,a student of human behavior,. a dietician , a nutritionalist, You have to know how the body functions. In some ways it's a very interesting disease. but is is not part of a club I wanted to join. But at this point that is irrelevant Once more I've been drafted,this time into the diabetic army of 20 million and still growing

desertdiabetic
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 115
   Posted 12/31/2005 8:38 PM (GMT -7)   
Steven, you are right. What the "experts" say is it can be reversed. I have wondered myself what they mean by that. If they mean that by controlling in the normal ranges and never exceeding beyond what a non-diabetic would yhou will sse non of the complications. Well, that is not reversing it as much as what you say living the life and not having the complications because you control so well. I take it that way myself, but "they" don't really go into any detail. I think becaue they don't know enough to make such a statement.

As far as going blind in one day(or whatever) - what I have read is t does happen. Not because one is out of range or abuses theirself to that point but because of some serious illness that requres surgery or hospitalization where great care was not given to the diabetes the patient has. This is from published accounts by a doctor whos patients did advance their complication in one or two days to the point of being blinded or loss of a limb. the orginal article was to tell the diabetic how to approach being hospitalized and what you should do.
type 2 - dx 12/04
metformin 500mg 3x - avanda 2mg 2x


AM_BD
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 12/31/2005 9:41 PM (GMT -7)   
Dear Steven & desertdiabetic,

Thanks for your insights into the topic. In fact, what I meant by "cure" was not relief from the disease as per se, but rather complete relief from any type of complications (provided the BS is kept under tight control). Steven, I particularly liked your comment that it is progressive only if you let it be. In all my inquiries, in fact I was trying to releive myself from the fear of the future. Now, I beleive it has been releived. I am really looking forward towards living a full,healthy and long life.

Two final inquests. Do the long-term complications, that results from bad BS control, vary between Type 1 & Type 2 ? Also, is it better to be on Light Medication + Moderate Exercise + Healthy Diet or Heavy Exercise + Healthy Diet. The BS control is identical in both cases. The question really boils down to whether there are any long-term side effects of diabetics medication. This question is vital since I am only 22.

Regards,

AM_BD

steven k
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 12/31/2005 10:04 PM (GMT -7)   
After naybe 5-or more years pills stop working. Ideally diet & exercise would be best to control this. All pills I'm sure have side effects. Not really knowledgeable. But I know something about hyperinsulin. Most people according to Dr.Atkins are producing 20 times the amount of insulin of a non diabetic person. When they start taking insulin becaus of insulin resistance it does alot of damge to alot of your vital organs. It's called hyper insulin. Dr.Atkins is very knowledgeable. Millons of followers. He treated over 5000 diabetic patients in his practice. The man understands the body and how it functions. Everyone talks about how wonderful insulin injections are. People would be dead without it, true. Read some of Dr. Atkins writing and you will find out about the down side of hyer insulin Check in out

desertdiabetic
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 115
   Posted 12/31/2005 10:08 PM (GMT -7)   
It must be the holiday that others are not jumping in. I guess I don't have life. You ask very good questions.

The exercise is important because exercise is not just to make you healthier. It is part of the insulin-cell process. For type 1 it is more for better health while for type 2 is it for better insulin to cell action. I don't know the technical way to explain it. I do know that exercise is as important as diet and medications(if you are on them) I am sure there are different degrees here, but just the same you should consider exercise just as important as diet.

Long term effects olf diabetes medication is one I want to know also. Of course, if you take this really serious(I think you do) it might not apply to you.

The treatment of diabetes is changing so fast. The medical profession is starting to take it a lot more serious. That is to your advantage. I think you will see great improvements in treatment in your lifetime if not an actual cure. For now you are in control of your treatment - said it too many time.

Hang in there probably when the holiday is over there will be many people who have more to say....
type 2 - dx 12/04
metformin 500mg 3x - avanda 2mg 2x


steven k
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 12/31/2005 10:17 PM (GMT -7)   
There is not enough insulin and diabetic pills in the world if you can't control your food intake. It's a mad vicious cycle. You eat too much , you put on weight, you max out meds, than put on more weight,more insulin resistance, go on insulin, 1 shot , put on more weight, cause more insulin resistance taking 2 3 shots, get the idea? It's a mad vicious cycle. It's progressive Of course after time your beta cells can stop producing insulin. That happens to,and that is not your fault. We can only try to control certain things. Somethings we can not control We should be in control what we put in our mouth. We can exercise, Monitor glucose, Monitor weight, Eat portion controlled food. Rember you want to sleigh the monster when it is small. You don't want to turn a molehill into a mountain. We have to understand the nature of the beast

steven k
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 12/31/2005 10:36 PM (GMT -7)   
You have to understand something about the glycemic index to derive the most benefit from exercise. I exercise on a treadmill. I walk 3.0 miles per hour 1 hour per day. I eat only protein during the day. Carbs for dinner and night. It takes about 2 hours for most food to turn into sugar in your blood. That is when you glucose is highest. Than I exercise. On my body I can bring down blood sugar down from about 200 to 101-120 using this method. I stop my eating at say 8PM and than exercise After exercising if I get hungry I eat only protein. This whole thing is cumlative, food on top of food on top of food raising blood sugar,on top of blood sugar. I'm not an eat by the clock guy. I eat how I feel. I like to space my food intake out and let my body do it's job. Alot of behavioral modification. Pattern behavior is one of the hardest things to change. When you do alot of things automaticallywithout thinking it is hard to change that pattern behavior. People eat for alot of reason. It is not a pre-requisite or a pre-conditon to be hungry whenyou eat. For me to eat when I was not hungry than I would have to believe that putting on weight and raising blood sugar is a problem. A rediculous premise. You are not locked into any pattern of behavior unless you choose to be Ssteve Kreloff A1C 12/05 6.0 5ft 7inches 143-145 pounds. HDL 77 LDL 68 TRYGLYCERIDE 55 TOTAL CHOLESTROL 156 NO DIABETIC COMPLICATIONS body mass index 23 .

Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 12/31/2005 11:14 PM (GMT -7)   
Am,

If you can control your sugars without meds that is the best thing for your body. Unfortunately as we age our metabolism changes and you may find a need for some meds down the road a bit. I have probably had undiagnosed diabetes since 1975 when my son was born (that's when all the symptoms appeared) and wasn't started on meds until 10 years ago. During those 20 years without meds I was an active mom who was often dieting to control my weight and exercising for the same reasons. Most likely I was treating my undiagnosed diabetes in the way you are now. I have mild neuropathy in my hands and feet and minor kidney damage as well as some basic eye changes. I'm on lots of meds but I have a sincere trust in my physician. She and I have come to the same conclusion. Diet, exercise, meds, insulin... whatever it takes to keep those sugars down is what I have to do. The numbers are the bottom line for me.

You may still be in the begining stages of accepting this disease and sometimes it's overwhelming to realize how much it touches on your daily activities. Seems like everytime you turn around there is food being offered, advertised, and used for celebrations and holidays. Suddenly your life looks like walking through a mine field! It does become easier over time, honest. As you become comfortable with your daily choices you will find it less daunting and more routine. Just hang in there and KOKO! (Keep on keepin' on!)
~ Jeannie

"As one goes through life one learns if you don't paddle your own canoe you don't move."
-Katherine Hepburn


"Madness takes its toll.
Please have exact change."


AM_BD
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 1/1/2006 5:01 AM (GMT -7)   
Dear All,

Thanks again for all of your replies.

Steven: Sorry for being so repetitive. Someday, I would like to have numbers like you (Hope it arrives soon)! However, I beg to differ on your comments on the effectiveness of pills. My mother has been taking them (Oral) for the last 15 years & till now she has not had any side-effects. As she doesn't really follow a good diet or exercise adequately, only the quantity of medicine had to be increased. The doctor says that if it ever comes to a point where the medecines cease to be effective, she would be transferred to insulin. Hence, I think medications can be a life-long assist in BS control. Another issue, I have been thinking of starting a low-carb, high-protien diet, but was told that high-protiens can cause damage to the kidney. What has it been in your case?

Jeannie: Do you think you could have slowed down the progress or possibly halted the advent of diabetes if you were diagnosed early? In fact, could you have avoided ALL your complications if you would have managed it very well from the very start? Your answer would probably indicate my chances of the future.

desertdiabetic: Thanks for sounding so hopeful & helpful. What I have seen in the case of my parents, who are on glucophage for 14 & 5 years resepctively, have had NO side-effects. Maybe others with more experience can comment better.

Regards,

AM_BD

steven k
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 1/2/2006 6:58 AM (GMT -7)   
You have to work at this every day for the rest of your life. It is containment and control. You have to keep your guard up and be vigilant of what you are doing and putting in your mouth at all times. You will have to monitor, blood, monitor, weight, eat portion controlled food,exercise. Formulate your own program .Do what seems to work best for you. Use all the practical self help techniques you are aware of. With this you are never done. There is no cure. Like I said is no disease with someone with a poor work ethic I mean you have to look back and ask yourself how did all of us get to this point. to not let it happen again.There is alot of behavior modification involved. This is another thing you have to do in life not because you want to but because you have to or be willing to face the consequences. There are alot of diabetic people who sweep it under the rug and it is just some after thought. We choose to struggle not trying to be mean or insenstive, but alot of people give up. It's a matter of choice. I just feel the risks are not acceptable. The ostrich approach almost got me on insulin. According to Dr. Atkins alot of type 2 people are making 20 times the amount of insulin than non diabetic people. They are not utlizing it properly. Tight control for me sould be an A1C 6.0 Or below, staying off of insulin.and no diabetic complications. If my beta cells stop working than I have no choice in the matter. Thre is great danger in shooting more insulin into your body.accordiing to Dr.Atkins. It is called hyper insulin. He does mention insuliln is a wonderful hormone It saves alot of lives. but it has a a dark side also. I put alot of creedence in what Dr. Atkins says. He has treated over 5000 patients. He does understand the body, I just could not live on all protein. or very little carbs. His methods and Dr. Richard Bernstein's is too restrictive for me. But I keep my carbs timed. I eat mostly protein from morning till 5PM than eat my carbs and counter act it with exercise. I try to avoid the cumulative effect. Addition on top of addion I have reason for what I eat, when I eat,how much I eat, when I exercise,when I take meds. I have logical , factual,rationale,proably only understood by me,but that is irrelevant. It's all based on self knowledge.of my body. Remember we possess knowledge that no one else in the world has. We know our own bodies, and we know ourselver, We have specific information only known to us In the end like everything else in life you will be measured by the results you can produce, not methodology. Our doctors want to see numbers. I am also a big numbers guy. A1C mioment in time blood test, exercise and it effect. HDL,LDL, tryglycerides,weight, carbs , calories, NUMBERS, NUMBERS AND MORE NUMBERS, .

Post Edited (steven kreloff) : 1/2/2006 10:29:00 AM (GMT-7)


wa5ekh
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 68
   Posted 1/2/2006 12:08 PM (GMT -7)   
I was diagnosed 3 years ago. Still not medicated. Lost 60-80#(25%). A1c went from 8.7 to 5.4 in one year. Maintained this for 1-2 years. Still overweight, fighting loss plateaus, compulsive consumption, and food industry toxins. Still scare of eventual permanent Diabetic loss of control. ADA, Joslin Group, Harvard Medical. ..others....the list goes on, all say diabetes is controllable, but not cureable. Then there are books/authors, saying "Diabetes is Reversible". But this could also be interpreted as "tight control". We are all "in denial" hoping for reversible, I'm told. Read the book "Discovery of Insulin". This book is what it appears in the title, but also describes the difference in the American Pharmaceutical industry and Medical Politics and the Canadian and European socialized medical system. You may find the answers in the storey of this US industrial-European Socialized medicine struggle. I believe the US Medical and Pharmaceutical community feed off of this conflict. I go to a lot!! of support diabetic groups. Type 2 folks (me too) are dominantly over weight, "generally" older folks controlling overeating with excessive "hypoglycemic agent" (my personal observations). Diet and exercise are capable of control, but doctors generally only “prescribe” to non-compliant and very frequently dishonest patients(us!), and aging patient of limited exercise capability. To control eating behavior and glycemic requirement seems to require behavior modification of eating "habits".
The real question I have is: what "daibetic" symptoms are really just aging? What diabetic/hyperglycemic damage is reversible(or even real, as apposed to theoretical)? I'm no longer interested in the "Medical Theories". I like to say that faith in “Medical Arts” is not that strong because of the apparent lack of progress and increase in profit. I worked around scientists, medical research folks, the source of many medical "theories". It doesn't cost the scientist or the doctor their lives, if!! their are wrong in 20 or 30 years. I believe what I can measure and actually "control", like BG, weight, Heart Rate. I say "fight back! Take control! Prove them wrong( or right) personally! So we know!! What other hope do we have? Trust your doctor? ok.. ….Another question: diabetes or Processed food toxicity???(my bets are on toxins)
By the way experts disagree…on everything! My Endo. Thought I had a stomack by-pass. Many endo.s are saying bypass CURE Diabetes. Also there are many historical and archival articles that suggest famine and severe economic depression reduce and almost eliminate Diabetes (at least type 2?).

PERSONAL OBSERVATION: I'm personally unconvinced that this is nothing more that the "overfed goldfish" dilemma. This is very difficult to admit personally, right? I think the only difference between fasting BGs of 70 mg/dl (thinner unmedicated “normal” folks) and fasting 90-110 mg/dl (overweight non- and Diabetics) is that between say 80 and 95 stored fat is still being metabolized all the time to maintain 90-100 mg/dl fasting. I have been very closely tracking my personal weight gain and loss (input and output)- Daily and Hourly and Weekly and Monthly and Tri-monthly(lots of records!!). A1c, weight gain of loss, bg, triglycerols go up and down together. Always! BGs above 90-100 produce wt. gain. Below 85-90 produce weight loss-daily!! So I can track my BGs by daily/hourly weight loss. Works for me-I check a lot! I've tracked this for a couple of years. I would like to propose a challenge, if you not medicated, to duplicate this, or any part of this.

Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 1/2/2006 12:38 PM (GMT -7)   
Steve,

There is further research that shows that a reduction diet that is higher carbohydrate vs. a high protein diet can improve peripheral (muscle) insulin and glucose uptake and also help with hyper insulin problems improving insulin sensitivity in individuals. This study was done by the University of Utah and may be downloaded as a pdf file here. It has often been shown that all things in moderation is a simpler way to work your diabetic program. It has a lower 'dropout' rate and is more amenable to everyday life in combination with non-diabetic family and housemates.

wa5ekh,

I'm not a believer in the 'drug companies making a fortune off of us' theory. The diabetes epidemic in the U.S., Europe and India is not discriminating when it chooses it's victims. The people who own and work at drug companies have diabetic moms and children and dads and friends or may be diabetic themselves. They have as much as a vested interest in finding a real cure as we do. Ongoing research is expensive in a country where the cost of living is as high as it is in the U.S. Research in India and other developing countries is less expensive and many breakthroughs are coming from them as well. The people who really burn my bisquits are the ones who get rich selling books full of half truths and partial implications that don't help anyone at all and only attack the drug companies. Just my 2¢

Am,

I was diabetic all along by today's standards but the numbers for diagnosis have changed over my lifetime. If I had been told I was diabetic in my early 20's when the symptoms first appeared I would have most likely gone through the acceptance stages earlier and been more aware of my diet. But you must remember that in the 1970's there was not as much knowledge about diabetes as there is now. In fact, I took a class when I was first diagnosed in '95 and when I had to start on insulin in '05 my doctor made me repeat the class. I was amazed at how much had changed in just ten years!

Because of the way that some diabetics absorb and store food they often become overweight earlier in life. In some of us the food we eat is converted to fat right away rather than used as immediate energy. Our bodies store it away quickly and then 'demand' more food because the cells are still hungry. This leads to a constant low level hunger that is impossible to satisfy. If we lived in a time of famine and hardship the way that earlier peoples did we would be just fine for the long haul. Some scientists believe that the high rates of diabetes in indigenous peoples (example- the Pueblo Indians) are directly related to the fact that long range survivors in these populations were the ones who were able to quickly store energy for times of famine. The people who couldn't died early when food was in short supply and so were not able to reproduce. Eventually you have a population who is all ready to face famine every few years when in fact, none exists. Traces of this tendency may exist in the rest of the U.S. population as well.

Anyway...(Jeannie is blathering away again!) tongue If I had known I was diabetic I would have been more careful with food, avoided a LOT more alcohol (Just had an occasional glass of wine), and tried to add more movement to my everyday life. I would have skipped the elevators, parked far away, and generally got off my duff more. I would have made a better effort to buy fresh vegetables for myself and fam because they are soooooo much more gooder for us than canned and frozen. I would have been able to justify the expense of those fresh veggies by the not spending on less nutritious items (read: chips, beer, booze, bologna, icecream, KFC... etc!)

The difference for you is that you have the tools to oversee your disease at hand. I'm speaking of the blood sugar testing supplies in your home right now. I had to get a doctor's order once a year and go to a lab and sit and wait and get my blood drawn just to get my blood sugar checked. Then I had to wait until the doctor read the lab results and asked his nurse to call me and tell me to change my diet or add a new medicaion. I didn't even know what the numbers were or if I had known them, I didn't know their importance. Also, there was no internet for education at our lesiure, instant research and friendly support. Diabetics used to be much more depenent upon their doctor's judgement about how to handle and treat their disease. We now have the ability to monitor our serum levels on a continuing basis and can immediately see if a certain food is not good for our program. We are able to make changes and choices based on our own observation and by taking responsibility for our own treatment we are more likely to succeed.

Hope this helps.
~ Jeannie

"As one goes through life one learns if you don't paddle your own canoe you don't move."
-Katherine Hepburn


"Madness takes its toll.
Please have exact change."

Post Edited (Jeannie143) : 1/2/2006 12:57:01 PM (GMT-7)


wa5ekh
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 68
   Posted 1/2/2006 8:55 PM (GMT -7)   
"The people who own and work at drug companies have diabetic moms and children and dads and friends or may be diabetic themselves. They have as much as a vested interest in finding a real cure as we do." Jeannie143

Maybe...the cure and the half-truths may be lost and confused in the rush for profits (and job security...personal experience...).

Try recording weight gain or loss, and simultaneously keep track of 4+ hour fasting BG levels. See if you don't see a pattern. Don't change any medications or treatments, "just the facts Mam,... just the facts". (Digital scale)

sharer
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 76
   Posted 1/2/2006 8:59 PM (GMT -7)   
Dear AM,
Now a lot has been answered about your basic question of whether diabetes is reversible.
1)Ifeel it cannot be reversed once confirmed,but sure is controllable.
2)Exercise and a low-carb diet will help you go in the right direction,as Jeannie mentioned.
3)Ihave read that every year 3 to 5%of the insulin-producing cells become non-functional due to deposition of a substance called Amylin.
4)As Jeannie mentioned it's a mine-field as far as diet choice is concerned,but as all of us have,so shall you will navigate better as you gain experience.
5)You are young, full of life,vim,vigour and pep,that nothing is impossible to you.
6)Your intention to exercise for 1 hour daily is perfect.No need to over-do it as hunger may appear out of the blue as it has done innumerable times to me and in trying to cope with it,we may over-compensate!
with best wishes,
sharer
Mind is a myth,thought is your enemy,no way out!


AM_BD
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 1/3/2006 10:36 AM (GMT -7)   
Dear All,

It has been an absolute pleasure to have heard such thoughtful responses from Jeannie, Sharer, desertdiabetic,wa5ekh & Steven. I thank each and everyone of you for your ripostes & the time and attention that you have apportioned to it.

I realize that the greatest advantage that I have along with my youth is this wonderful opportunity to learn from the experience of others. Surely, without this, life would have been a lot harder!

I would also like to mention (in fact since I raised the topic, I feel compelled) that the difference of opinion raised between members over the verity of diabetic cures by Pharmaceutical companies cannot really be solved by outsiders. Only a true insider, with factual evidence, can confirm our suspicions. Hence, I kindly request a discontinuance of this topic to avoid discord.

In conclusion, allow me to end with another query. Since I will soon be entering my professional life which is predominantly a management job involving minimal physical activity; how should I effectively plan my exercise & diet? Such as, only protein & vegetables at daytime & rice at night? Exercise during early morning (7AM-8AM) or night (10PM)?

Anyone who has faced this dilemma and successfully solved it is most welcome to revert.

Regards,

AM_BD

sharer
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 76
   Posted 1/4/2006 1:44 AM (GMT -7)   
Dear AM_BD,
You need more energy during the day and you usually spend more carbs then than at night.Rice is very high in carbs and if it's your choice of food ,whynot 1)veggies in the morning,2)rice in the afternoon,and 3)a protein-rich diet at night?
As far as exercise is concerned i myself am in the pits right now and i need more help than you do!(see my query in the site and add your bit of motivation)
to a happy manager,
sharer
Mind is a myth,thought is your enemy,no way out!


steven k
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 1/4/2006 3:49 AM (GMT -7)   
I think it is important to be able to apply self help techniques with this. Alot of this I believe is knowing how are bodies respond to different stimuli, like food. exercise, meds, how weight drops when not eating (metabolic rate.} Alot of this is just practical selp help. We need to apply our self knowledge,awareness,insights to produce optimum results. This is not something you can learn from reading a book. It's a personalized, custmized approach for each individual. In fact what may work for 1 person may not work for another. We have to know ourselved. I believe there are alot of varibles among people. How body reacts to different stimuli All we could do is listen to each other and keep experimenting around and see what will work on a consistent basis. It's seems to be a matter of corelaitng, insulin production, metabolic rate, exercise, food,behavior modification to create possitive results. That is proably the only things that is feasible. I don't think we have any choice in this matter. It's not a matter of playing a good hand, sometimes you just have to know how to play a bad hand good maybe. Thank you everyone for your insights land constructive suggestion. It is deeply appreciated

AM_BD
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 1/4/2006 5:41 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks Sharer & Steven. Sharer, are you currently following the diet that you have prescribed to me? Steven, I take your point, but surely it doesn't hurt to research on the topic by knowing more about other people's diets! But, I know that the last decision should always be mine.

Regards,

AM_BD

Warren
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 534
   Posted 1/4/2006 10:57 AM (GMT -7)   

Ok, I read through this whole thread and Jeannie once again hit the nail right on the head.  In most cases you don't get diabetes because of a sloppy lifestyle or this thing or that thing that if you didn't do your wouldn't have, or that can be fixed!!!

Diabetes means something is broken, and for the most part irreparable.  So what are you going to do.  How badly broken depends on what you can do to run on "normal" .  I'll use the example of my 85 year old relative that has no health problems whatsoever.  He eats his chocolate cake with ice cream, gets an average amount of exercise for someone his age, and has absolutely NO SUGAR problems.  He can max out on sweets and like magic, his blood sugar is always back to normal in short order.  I use this example because he is NORMAL...we are BROKEN.  No matter what we do with exercise or diet, we are never going to have is unmedicated, normal response to cookies and milk!!!

All the suggestions you read here for diet and exercise are simply aimed at making you as healthy as possible and minimizing the effect of a broken endocrine system.  Complications can occur and I wholely disagree that they are due to anything outside diabetes. I had an infection go way out of control due to poor sugar control and ended up in the hospital...FOR NO OTHER REASON than I was not controlling the disease.  I think Sharer is right when he says, If you have gotten to the point where you have the disease, you are never going to be rid of it.  But the choices you make can minimize its impact on your life.
 
Choose wisely, but remember to include your quality of life in your decisions.
 
scool  Warren

desertdiabetic
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 115
   Posted 1/4/2006 11:10 AM (GMT -7)   
Warren-

You said above - "Complications can occur and I wholely disagree that they are due to anything outside diabetes. Maybe I am reading this wrong. It does not matter really, it just jumped out at me. We diabetics do face complications that have pretty well documented. Are you saying that if we get any of those complications it can only be from the diabetes? Like I said, a minor point. We are not protected from the reasons non-diabetics get these complications(eye problems, heart, weight gain, etc....). Or did i just read what you said incorrectly.

Your also choose wisely. That is the most difficult part for a lot of people, I think. It is not obvious what is the best choice. The most important choice, I think, is the overall approach you take. Do you select the ADA very loose approach or do you choose the very very tight approach like Bernstein. Or the worse choice possible is the do nothing choice. I know people that live totaly depending on meds and insulin solving the problem. Then it is hundreds of choices a week. What do you eat is many choices, done everyday. It is not so bad when you get a good idea of what is necessary to fit your overall approach. Set standards and live by them. In my own program I have decided that Maltodextrin does not fit in. I know in small amounts it does not do any harm. However, the food industry is not honest in their labeling so I have to just say no to any Maltodextrin. Sadly the chioce of doctors is not available to most of us. Believe me I would not choose my current doctor if they permitted a change. He just does not take it serious enouhg. After one year with him I am still waiting for my referral to an eye doctor.
type 2 - dx 12/04
metformin 500mg 3x - avanda 2mg 2x

Post Edited (desertdiabetic) : 1/4/2006 11:23:07 AM (GMT-7)


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 1/4/2006 11:54 AM (GMT -7)   
Desert,

I believe that the complications of diabetes that Warren is referring to are actual diabetic complications, that is, directly related to having elevated blood sugars and the entailing associated problems. Diabetic retinopathy(blindness), for example, is caused by blood vessel damage and leaking related to high sugars, lessened blood flow to the retina from 'thick' blood full of sugar, and the body trying to increase blood flow by making new blood vessels that block the retina from receiving the image thru the lens.

This doesn't occur with any other disease. Also, there are blood vessel changes that are peculiar to diabetics that predispose us to heart disease and stroke. We handle blood lipids differently than normals do. Most of the problems related to elevated sugars are because the glucose molecules act as a sort of 'sludge' or 'syrup' in the blood stream and decrease circulatory quality. (I am highly simplifying this for the non-medically educated members.) We also handle proteins differently that normals which can lead to end stage renal disease or (diabetic nephropathy).This decreases the kidney's abilities to filter correctly and kind of gums up the works there.

Large sugar molecules can't get into the smallest of the blood vessels and the blockage can cause ischemia (blood starvation) in tiny little places. If this place is where a nerve ending lives it can die (diabetic neuropathy). Decreased circulation can lead to a small sore turning into a lost limb because the body's antibodies can't reach the source of infection through the blocked blood vessels and the bacteria run wild and take over. All the antibiotics in the world won't help an infected limb if you have a bad delivery system and the body's antibodies can't get to the wound to fight with the help of the meds.

These are some of the things that are only found in diabetics because of high sugars. Normals don't have continuing high sugars so they don't have these problems. I guess we're just special. tongue
~ Jeannie

"As one goes through life one learns if you don't paddle your own canoe you don't move."
-Katherine Hepburn


"Madness takes its toll.
Please have exact change."

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