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Claire-Bear
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 5/10/2006 1:30 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi there,
 
I have a suggestion to make really - I just think it might be a good idea if there were separate places for t1s and t2s rather than using the same forum.  It might help to focus help and advice more as t1 and t2 are quite different and have different issues.  I wasn't really sure where else to put this suggestion so sorry if this is in the wrong place!!
 
Thanks,
Claire xx

Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 5/10/2006 11:09 AM (GMT -7)   
Claire,

It's not the wrong place, it's just that there is only so much bandwidth available to the website owner and since he makes the decisions about forums he prefers the diabetes people all go to one place. The only suggestion I can offer is that the T1 's set up their own chat night to share ideas in the chat room and also that you preface your posts with "T1" in the subject to catch their attention.

This isn't a perfect solution but it's the best I can offer. Also, one of the T1 members could offer their help to Moderate the T1 posts. Your knowlege about T1 is valuable to all the T1 members and your needs often differ from the T2's. I wish I could be more helpful and I hope you understand the space issue.
~ Jeannie

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."

- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


Sunday
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 59
   Posted 5/10/2006 4:55 PM (GMT -7)   
I totally agree with Claire, yeah but I'd already asked Jeannie about it and knew it couldn't happen as a separate forum.  I think it's very difficult to mix conversations about the two diseases and find it frustrating (speaking for myself only --- don't mean to imply you feel the same, Claire) .   I'm not sure we can be of much help to one another (the T1 community) when we have to first wade through the majority of posts which address a different disease.   Labeling the thread is a nice idea but it doesn't really solve the problem.  t2s who don't comprehend a difference in the two difference diseases of the same name, still write responses (all coming from good places in their hearts!!!) full of misinformation or irrelevance.  I don't think there's an easy answer.  I think Jeannie's really tried to figure it out and for that I give her enormous credit.  She's the reason I come back.  I wish I could be of more help.  How about you Claire?  Any more ideas?  And thanks for bringing this up.  :-)

Claire-Bear
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 5/11/2006 2:38 AM (GMT -7)   

Hi Jeannie and Sunday - thanks for your replies.

I have to be honest I was being quite simplistic and didn't really think through how complicated it would be to set up separate forums.  The only thing I can think of is that we specify whether it's t1 or t2 related in the subject header when posting new threads, but that doesn't stop all people contributing (and shouldn't really).  I just think it gets really complicated, especially for newly diagnosed t1s, when they get advice from t2s - I don't doubt for a second it's well meaning, of course.  I guess we just need to point out to t2s that these are really two different diseases and maybe we call need to ponder a moment about whether the advice we give really is useful or not.

For any people reading who are not sure what the differences are I'll try to briefly explain:

Type 1 (was called Juvenile) usually occurs in young people and children.  It's an autoimmune disease where the insulin-producing cells are attacked by our own antibodies (probably after a virus) and therefore the body no longer makes insulin.  This is why we have to inject insulin.

Type 2 usually occurs in older people (but not always).  It can be caused by lifestyle and/or genetic pre-disposition (I'm not implying that all people who develop it bring it on themselves, though) and happens because the body no longer can absorb the insulin even though it still makes it.  Type 2s use any combination of diet, medication, exercise and insulin.

I don't know anything about gestational diabetes so I won't even comment about that, and there are other forms such as 'water' diabetes but I won't go into them either as I don't know much at all.  I just wanted to point out how very different the types really are.  I'm really not using this to attack anyone and would hate for anyone to be offended at all.  The moderators especially are excellent here and I agree with what Sunday has said about Jeannie.

Claire x


Sunday
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 59
   Posted 5/11/2006 6:26 AM (GMT -7)   
Well said Claire. As a matter of personal policy, I don't respond to posts from t2's which are about t2 specifically, because I have no personal experience to share. I know what I've read about t2 but that's really not the purpose of a message board, IMO. It's about sharing information or analyzing data from (additionally) a personal perspective. There are tons of informational resources available to anyone with internet access. I think message boards are about adding perspective and experience to the data. Yet when people are writing about their own experience with a very different disease, it's not only annoying -- it's counterproductive!

That said, Warren's done a really good job of addressing misinformation in some fairly recent posts and it gives me an idea. How about a canned statement authored by the moderators that is used by them to address posts about t1 that they can clearly see is misinformed or pertains only to t2? Warren would pen a great one, I'm sure. Something that merely reminds people that these are two different diseases and should be addressed as such! This would encourage everyone who wants to participate in a t1 discussion to do so -- but to be "informed" that we are talking about two different diseases with critical distinctions.

This might enable us t1s to feel "addressed" and "understood" as a premise. And keep a 40-plus-year t1 such as myself from "loosing it" when she reads that she should try to "cure" her condition with diet and exercise. What do you say, Jeannie & Warren?

Warren
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 534
   Posted 5/11/2006 7:21 AM (GMT -7)   

Hi Sunday and Claire,

I bite my tongue in frustration sooooo many times with the irrelavent posts that happen in a thread addressing T1 problems.  It IS a very different incarnation of the same disease and people don't realize the implications for how you have to dose your meds, the psycological aspects, as well as the different physiological complications.  Your points are well taken and Jeannie and I will do our best to identify T1 topics when they are posted and try to keep people on track.  Since it is a support forum I will never discourage anyone from offering heart felt support but I certainly will discourage people from trying to post dietary, herbal, (you know the type) of solutions to type one questions!  I think because there are crossover topics, T1's can actually teach T2's that become insulin dependant lottsa useful things so this is one of the reasons I favor having the two topics under one roof.

So, yes, I will pay more attention to weeding out the irrelavence in T1 topics and try to make these threads more meaningful. (and I didn't mean to exclude Jeannie as Im sure she will also)

scool Warren
It's not that some people have willpower and some don't. It's that some people are ready to change and others are not. - James Gordon, M.D.
What some call health, if purchased by perpetual anxiety about diet, isn't much better than tedious disease. - George Dennison Prentice

I can only please one person per day, today is not your day...tomorrow doesn't look good either.


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 5/11/2006 7:21 AM (GMT -7)   
I'll leave the writing of the statement to Warren, since he is the Rocket Scientist of the group... And I still think you should set up a chat among yourselves where you could share email addresses for off forum discussions. As far as the T2's getting in your face... Feel free to tell them that your post subject said Type 1's and applied to T1's only. Anyone with this disease needs to become educated and you would not be out of place to tell them to take their irrelevant comments to the T 2's.

Even so, many of the T2 peeps can learn a lot from your excellent examples and long handling of the insulin, diet, rest, exercise thing. In that sense we are much the same. Hope this helps.
~ Jeannie

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."

- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


Sunday
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 59
   Posted 5/11/2006 7:29 AM (GMT -7)   
You two make a terrific team. Thanks.

Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 5/11/2006 7:42 AM (GMT -7)   
Please don't forget AL! (Pin Cushion) He's the first moderator of this forum and as health permits he posts and edits as necessary. He's even gone so far as to send me a 'dead chicken' keychain to get me out of the dumps when I was feeling low. His understanding counsel brought me thru my first time to give myself a shot, taught me to understand my blood sugar readings and he was there for me when I was out of control and scared. He isn't always able to post, but when he does it's always great advice.
~ Jeannie

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."

- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


Sunday
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 59
   Posted 5/11/2006 7:44 AM (GMT -7)   
Oops; Rookie mistake. Thanks for reminding us of Al aka Pin Cushion's presence and role.

desertdiabetic
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 115
   Posted 5/11/2006 8:03 AM (GMT -7)   
This is one of the most hotly discussed points on diabetes - Believe me, I do not want to even get into the issue of diabetics being different diseases - or just as troubling is that type 1's are the real diabetes and type 2's should be lucky if type 1's will only tell them how to live better. Support forums ar enot the place for medical advice - we all get it and some of us give it. Having a seperate place for type 1's(or type 2's if that is your thinking) is not a bad thing. The bad thing, if there is a 'bad thing' about it, is when we think that they are different diseases and handling them cannot be understood by the "other" diabetic desease. I don't think that is what people are wanting here. Though that is what is being said on this thread. Threads almost always drift from the original topic in response to something said that was on topic, in part anyway. That's the way it happens. i have spent some time on a few forums to see what is being said, mostly without comment because it is type 1's that are discussing insulin and I don't have an opinion on those problems, yet. I have found that it is pretty wide spread that type 1's don't understand how type 2 works either. I heard things like type 2's should be on some insulin so they can take a little insulin and then eat anything they want like type 1's. Or the ones that I like are the people that maintain 8 and above A1c's to prevent hypo's. These people need someone to come in and talk with them, type 1, type 2 or no type.

My suggestion is do like some other forums and have an additional line in the description below the user name that says they type the user is - type 1 , 2, or parent or family member. We should not have to say that over and over.

Please don't start seperating us like we are not capable of knowing or helping - the differences are really small. If there is an 'approved way of treating" diabetes and if you don't follow those beliefs then go away, tell me. Tell us all what way is the only way to treat this disease so we can deside if we have to go somewhere else. I know, off topic. You do get this thinking on this particular thread.
type 2 - dx 12/04
metformin 500mg 3x - avandia 2mg 2x


Sunday
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 59
   Posted 5/11/2006 9:05 AM (GMT -7)   
The differences are not small, desertdiabetic. Ask any board-certified endocrinologist. My own endo would like to see them re-named! I respectfully submit that you are Wrong. And that's the point of this thread. That there are substantial differences and a large number of t2s don't understand that fact! You've had t2 for about 17 months. I've been t1 for over 40 years. Friends whom have known me for most of my life and therefore know quite a bit about t1 by now - and whom have recently be diagnosed t2 will tell you that you don't have clue if you honestly believe that the "differences are really small."

desertdiabetic
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 115
   Posted 5/11/2006 10:02 AM (GMT -7)   
What are the big differences? Educate this poor uneducated person. I don't mean the difference in you and me. i want to know what makes type 1's so different.
type 2 - dx 12/04
metformin 500mg 3x - avandia 2mg 2x


Sunday
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 59
   Posted 5/11/2006 10:13 AM (GMT -7)   
Just off the top of my head:
Cause.
Treatment.
Duration.
Complications (chronologies, risk profiles, risk and side-effects of long-term preventative treatments such as statins and kidney medications prior to complication diagnoses, ETC.)
Mortality rates.
The lists within these categories are extensive.

Sunday
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 59
   Posted 5/11/2006 10:48 AM (GMT -7)   
This is a very decent chart depicting (broadly) the differences between t1 and t2 from the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation:




http://www.jdrf.org.au/publications/factsheets/difference1and2.html

desertdiabetic
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 115
   Posted 5/11/2006 10:54 AM (GMT -7)   
I see the cause, that is obvious - though it should not make any difference in understanding the disease - once a type 1 is diagnosed the cause is only academic - other than when a 'cure' is found. Though a cure for type 1 would be very useful for a type to also.

Treatment is similar in many cases. I don't take insulin and you probably don't take medications I do - though some type 1's do.

Duration I don't understand what you mean by that. There are only 24 hours in a day and only one lifetime. Type 1 does not go away nor does type 2 it that is what you meant.

Complications I don't believe are any different. the reason for the complicatons come from the same basic cause - Type 2 is progressive while type 1 is severe from day one(so to speak - I know it sometimes comes on more slowly for some, but is very quick in the big picture). The insulin resistence in type 2 and being progressive takes away some of the ability to stay in ranges that hold off complications while type 1's don't develop the insulin resistance in time - though there is some talk about this happening to some degree.

Mortality rate - I have no clue what any mortality rate is for any disease. I do know type 2's die at a terrible rate due to complications.

After you get over the way we contract diabetes what is done day to day so different? Again, I am not referring to you and I, I am talking about diabetics overall. I have been yelled at for saying that there are different stages of type 2. I already understand that you deal with a 'life threatening' situation every day - insulin where as I do not. There are so many differences within type 2 just on the subject of diet - some people cannot give up eating their favorite foods - it is a mental thing - not a difference in types

I am not tryin to be difficult here - I have been on both sides of the road here. I think there are many differences - but not the type of differences that make helping each other not possible. I find that thinking demeaning to someone - not necessarily to me. I don't comment on insulin threads unless there is a general point that can be made. i agree with you on the endless answers that don't take into consideration what the differences are. i do take exception to what you(Sunday) said about not getting envolved in type 2 threads because you don't have any experience there. You are wrong there. You probably understand the cause and affect with foods and what exercise does to blood glucose levels or --- well, many things. It helps type 2's to know your experiences as well as just type 2's. A lot of people read these forums that get something from just about everybodies answers if they apply to them - you don't know who you are talking to when you answer - I go periods of time when I don't answer, just observe - and learn a lot, sometimes.

Personally,(stupid statement really, who else would I be talking about) I think we are better off finding things that make us similar than keeping with what makes us different.
type 2 - dx 12/04
metformin 500mg 3x - avandia 2mg 2x


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 5/11/2006 1:47 PM (GMT -7)   
Sunday,

I am wondering... if you had a Type 1 forum how would the threads differ from the threads here?
What would you discuss differently?
~ Jeannie

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."

- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


Sunday
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 59
   Posted 5/11/2006 2:17 PM (GMT -7)   
I think it would be much different. I can't think of any sub-topic (cause, treatment, complications, exercise, diet, lifestyle, research, cures, mortality, etc.) where the information is all the same or the experiences comes from the same background.

I also think that the contentiousness is growing and I'm not wanting for it to get any worse, so I'm going to read but not post here anymore. I don't think I'm helping and my frustration isn't shared by the majority here who are t2. Perhaps the better part of valor is to simply recognize that t1s are a much smaller group and that t2s as a general population might not understand the differences. That said, I hope our t1 numbers stay small, and that one day, both types (and type 1.5, too!) are cured.

Namaste.

Hoping2BWell
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 537
   Posted 5/18/2006 9:57 AM (GMT -7)   

Hello,

T2 here! I have had Crohn's Diseases since childhood (I am now 55 years old). I was dx with pancreatitis at age 18. It seems Crohn's attacked my pancreas. After countless bouts of pancreatitis, there was much atrophy to my pancreas. Though there is not a member of my family on either side, and I can go back to great great great grandparents, who has been dx diabetic, I have diabetes. My diabetes came about because of Crohn's Disease/pancreatitis. Yet, I am t2 since mine was brought on later in life (in my 40s) and I am not on insulin. Sometimes, cause is not what it appears to be!

God bless and stay well,

Madelyn


Crohn's Disease (since childhood), pancreatitis, diabetes, neuropathy, arthritis, chronic fatigue, we think fibromyalgia, asthma. I have 4 surgeries including pancreas/sphincterplasy, duodenum, resection, proctectomy with sigmoid colon. I have a permanent colostomy.
 
There's nowhere I can hide that God can't find me, nowhere I can go that God can't help me.

Post Edited (Hoping2BWell) : 5/18/2006 11:07:29 AM (GMT-6)

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