Great post - thanks for bumping it up for us newbies.
I'm using a lot of the products you mention: Hood milk, Smucker's s/f orange marmalade, R/Stover choc truffles, etc, etc. Taking care of my high fiber colostomy needs, along with my diabetic diet, is somewhat of a challenge. Check out the frozen dinners, too - some are surprisingly appropriate for us.
Post Edited (spooky) : 8/6/2006 8:24:42 AM (GMT-6)
Great to have an informed debate on the subject of diet - let's keep it going!
I've been Type 1 for 25 years and my triglycerides and cholestrol levels also dropped significantly around 5 years ago. No meds required. Instead I changed from high carb, low fat to low carb with more fat and protein. Not only have I lost 4 stone in weight, but my bloods are so much better too. Cholestorol 5.1, HDL 3.0, LDL 1.8, triglycerides 0.6 (sorry, these are UK measurements and I don't know how they would convert into US figures). The factors which influence triglyceride levels are heredity, excercise levels, blood sugar levels, diet, ratio of abdominal fat to lean body mass and most especially recent consumption of carbohydrate. After a high carb meal, excess blood sugar is converted to fat with direct consequences on cholestorol levels.
Dietary fat can't be converted to blood sugar - it's a myth! My own experience has convinced me that the low fat approach is not only counterproductive, but actually harmful. Is it purely coincidental that the spectacular rise in diabetes and obesity levels coincides so closely with the rise of the low fat paradigm?
Hi there Fergusc,
Let the dialogue continue!
If you notice,in my first sentence i mentioned "saturated"fat.I have nothing against mono and poly-unsaturated fats.In fact exchanging mono and the poly-unsaturated fats for carbohydrates reduces the "bad" cholesterol(LDL)and triglycerides and increases the "GOOD"cholesterol(HDL)
In epidemiological studies it was found that higher intake of saturated and "trans-fats" increases the risk of Coronary Heart Disease.Low fat,high carbohydrate diets can exacerbate diabetic dyslipidemias by RAISING triglycerides and LOWERING HDL.
I accept that diets rich in mono and poly-unsaturated fats are o.k,with the proviso that the total caloric intake is controlled!
Dietary cholesterol:Due to the abnormal cholesterol transport in diabetics due to decreased levels of apoE,higher intake of dietary cholesterol,for example egg yolk,has been proven to have detrimental effects on the serum cholesterol profile.There is also an association between high dietary cholesterol and hyperglycemia.It's universally recommended that foods rich in saturated fatty acids(EG:egg yolk) should be restricted in diabetics.
I mentioned Trans-fats being as bad as saturated fat.They are formed when vegetable oils are partially hardened by hydrogenation.Rich sources of trans-fats are stick margarine,commercially available baked products and MOST IMPORTANTLY DEEP-FRIED FAST FOODS TO WHICH THE BABY BOOMERS AND THE PRESENT GENERATION ARE SO USED TO CONSUMING.In the Nurse's Health Study intake of trans-fatty acids was positively associated with the risk of type 2 diabetes in a 14 year follow-up!Trans-fats also increase Triglycerides,LDL and reduce HDL.
In humans,there is little "de-novo"synthesis of fatty acids from glucose within the adipocytes and most of the triglycerides are derived from esterification of NEFA's(Non-Esterified Fatty Acids),ultimately derived mostly from the diet taken and a small portion via synthesis in the liver.THIS IS THE EXACT REASON WHY BLOOD CHOLESTEROL TESTS ARE DONE IN A TRUE FASTING STATE!
You're probably right there, but I was just commenting on the very first post of this thread. The very first post says things like not to even have potato chips etc, which I don't personally agree with for type 1s. I've been diabetic for close on to 15 years, have eaten a pretty 'normal' diet and have no complications that I'm aware of. I've had a few scares with the insulin (i.e. once or twice accidentally giving myself too much) but it's all through trial and error that we learn how much insulin we should be giving ourselves. It's not so dangerous as you'd expect by giving yourself 1 or 2 units too much insulin - as long as you are still getting symptoms of hypos and keeping a close eye on things. Part of having these quick acting insulins is to give us diabetics a bit more freedom with our food and eating. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm having a go at you or anything, but I seriously think that t1s at least have a lot more freedom with food than this post implies.
Hello again Spooky,
I agree with you 100% on the subject of trans-fats. They have no dietary benefit whatsoever and the research I have read suggests our bodies have no way of dealing with them effectively. They're highly beneficial to the profit margins of processed food manufacturers of course. Call me a cynic. I've made a habit of ensuring none of that stuff gets into my shopping trolley.
I don't think research supports a mistrust of saturated fat however. I know we diabetics have been conditioned to fear it but really, where's the evidence? My lipid profiles have improved immensely with an increased use of bacon, butter, cream and cheese. Woohoo! My conclusion is that high lipid profiles are a syptom of high blood sugars, not excess dietary fat.
Now, I also try to exercise quite a bit - I completed the Edinburgh Marathon back in June this year. Some have told me this is skewing my results but then I also exercised back when my lipids weren't good. The difference? - I've cut back on the carbs, my blood sugars are near normal and my lipids have followed suit.
Anyhow, I'm delighted we can have an informed debate about it. Blood tests coming up for me later this week and I'll keep you posted.
evidence regarding saturated fats and TRANS-fats in the diet come from the nurses health study.The conclusion of the study states that saturated fats in the diet increase coronary heart disease,though the focus is more on trans-fats.
The following para,i teased out from an article from the Harvard school of public health:
Saturated fats are mainly animal fats. They are found in meat, seafood, whole-milk dairy products (cheese, milk, and ice cream), poultry skin, and egg yolks. Some plant foods are also high in saturated fats, including coconut and coconut oil, palm oil, and palm kernel oil. Saturated fats raise total blood cholesterol levels more than dietary cholesterol because they tend to boost both good HDL and bad LDL cholesterol. The net effect is negative, meaning it's important to limit saturated fats.
All interesting stuff, but still far from conclusive.
The conventional wisdom that dietary fat should be strictly limited is in fact relatively recent. I understand that the average American diet around 30 years ago derived around 40% of total calories from fat. Not something you would expect to see recommended these days and yet the reduction in fat from the diet in the intervening years apparently mirrors the increase in obesity and diabetes.
Gary Taubes wrote an article on the subject in Science dated March 30 2001 which is well worth reading.
He produced a graph which still sticks in my memory today. It illustrated a 25% reduction in dietary calories consumed as fat between 1960 and 1990 which directly correlated to the number of overweight Americans increasing by almost 50%. Clearly there are also other issues at work here, but the demonising of dietary fat seems a little illogical.
I like Dr Bernstein's take on the issue. "The fallacy that eating fat will make you fat is about as scientifically logical as saying that eating tomatoes will turn you red."
I wonder how many members of the forum are pursuing a low-fat strategy?
let me try this tack!Weight loss or gain depends on the total calorie intake and expenditure.Those people who maintain a negative balance over a period of time lose weight.Gram for gram, fat in the diet contains twice as many calories as carb's or protein;Hence restricting the intake of fat is beneficial.Iam sending you an article below.please go through it.
This comes from Mayo clinic,Rochester.Don't discount it!
One wise man said"all conversation is violence,as all the time you are trying to forcibly convert the other to your point of view"!How correct!
I have to say I think you are both right here and have good points.
The percentage of the average Ameican's diet being made up of fat has fallen, but the portion sizes have gone up considerably in the past few years, so you can probably say the amount of fat eaten has gone up even though percentage wise it's gone down - you have to be careful when reading statistics. The average person no longer eats an appropriate portion size now. It's true to say that British friends who have visited the US were gobsmacked at how huge the portions are over there (and even here they are usually too big). So, again I say that balance is the key. Anything in excess is bad for you, and we all need some fat in our diets. So, I think you should both settle that you both have great points and that you can never make someone totally agree with you (world would be boring if we could). I think there are too many factors in the food we eat to totally blame illnesses on the fat we eat. A lot of meat, for example, contains hormones etc and that can't be helping our health for a start!
Thanks for the link Spooky. I'm always interested to read the wide range of opinions on the subject.
I'd hate to reinforce the stereotype of a miserably fatty Scottish diet because times have changed here. And you're right of course Claire, moderation in all things. Personally my diet is mostly low gi vegetables with protein and fat to keep them company. Seems to work pretty well for me. I had my blood tests today and my consultant tells me the lipid profiles and hbA1c are better than any of the non-diabetic staff there!
My point was that I was finding it hard to grasp the logic of a diabetic diet that contained a lot of starchy food and strictly limited dietary fat when the starch sends blood glucose skyward and the fat doesn't. Its normal blood sugars we all aspire to after all. Each to their own though.
You have a point there - also, lower carb means (for type 1 at least) lower insulin doses and therefore less of a chance of having a hypo. I think this is all Dr Bernstein stuff, but I'm not sure just how reliable his work is.
I found that lately I've reduced the amounts of carb I have with meals as a whole, so have replaced about 50% of the carbs on my plate for veg and salad and this seems to be helping to stablise my blood sugars more. Slowly but surely levels are all coming down.
There's a good argument to say that diabetics should keep their carb intake limited...
Glad you're having some success with this approach too.
I stumbled across the Bernstein stuff a couple of years ago, some time after I'd stumbled across the low carb approach myself by trial, error and a fair bit of research. I found his book very reassuring in the face of a great deal of scepticism from the so called experts pedalling the established starchy carbohydrate paradigm.
The logic is pretty compelling I think. Low carb for me has resulted in lower insulin doses, lower weight, lower lipids, lower blood sugars. None of these things had been possible before with a low fat regimen. To be honest, I don't know why there hasn't been a more widespread conversion yet, but perhaps in time...
The Nurses Health Study is a landmark trial.More than 80,000 nurses were studied over a period of 14 years.The conclusion was that for every 5% increase in dietary fat,there was a corresponding 17% increase in risk of coronary heart disease.To date this is the largest trial showing this relationship.Please see this link :http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/337/21/1491
I totally agree with you there about the natural ingredients - we diabetics often get so many sugar substitutes but I've been reading up recently about them and they seem to be quite harmful and also do affect blood sugar levels anyway! I like the idea about just squishing some fruit rather than using jam...yum!
Spooky, thanks for the link - I have to admit I haven't properly read it yet, but I'm presuming it's about dietry fats such as those derived from animals rather than those like olive oil? I think that mediterranean diets for instance, with high levels of olive and fish oils, are very healthy though. It's scary to think that only a small percentage rise in dietry fat can cause such significantly larger percentage rise in risk of coronary illness!
But there is this quote from the link though...
Conclusions Our findings suggest that replacing saturated and trans unsaturated fats with unhydrogenated monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats is more effective in preventing coronary heart disease in women than reducing overall fat intake.
Hi there Claire-Bear,
I should have mentioned that for every 5% increase in intake of"SATURATED"fat,the CAD risk increases by 17%.
There is no controversy regarding mono-and poly unsaturated fats in the diet being beneficial!