Disappointing A1C Results

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Phishbowl
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 547
   Posted 3/24/2007 9:44 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi All,

Thought I'd share my less-then-enthusiastic-about A1C results I got this week....8.2%. That's up from November's 8.1%. I know it's an incremental change but, one I would've hoped went down instead of up :-(

BP on the low side of normal, weight maintained at 110lbs (give or take 2-3 lbs, I've been 110 for 18+ months now), 5'3" and a bit (gotta have that little bit :-) , cholesterol levels need to be watched (stopped meds until futher testing - maybe Ezetrol will be considered - ever heard of it?).

I eat less then 100 carbs/day (all meals & snacks), use NovoRapid for meals - and have recently been using it to correct all undesireable glucose levels as soon as possible. (Ie. at 3-hour postprandial mark, before bed, during the night, and as usual, at meals). It means up to 1-3 more shots/day but worth keeping the numbers in line.

I don't have an exercise regimen per se but, I am almost constantly active; I walk everywhere, climb 12 steps multiple (20-60) times/day, lift 20-30 banker's boxes daily, landscape, make bread by hand-no mixer, and more... and my activities have me in better health than most non-Diabetics I know.

I don't drink alcohol, except maybe having about 2-4 oz at a dinner party 6-8 times/yr.

My one vice is that I smoke 2-3 cigarettes/day. I know, I know....I will quit. I'm working on that one.

Anyone got any advice on how I might get that A1C down a bit more? The pump would be great (an my only real alternative, according to my docs), but I just can't afford it at the moment. Working on that one, too :-)

Thanks!
Cheers,
- Phishbowl (Type 1 since Jan'05 - Levemir, NovoRapid)
"What's Not Measured Is Not Managed"

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"-Epictetus

Post Edited (Phishbowl) : 3/24/2007 10:48:54 AM (GMT-6)


cooperazi
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 47
   Posted 3/24/2007 10:40 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Phishbow,   I do not have any advice for you.  You and others have usually given me the advice.You are always so supportive and kind.  I just want you to know I am hoping you find the solution, and do not get too discouraged.  I am wishing you all the BEST!  Take Care, Donna

gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 3/24/2007 11:54 AM (GMT -7)   

I am sorry to hear about your disappointing results. As a type 2, I don't know much about how you control your BG levels, but it sounds like you are doing all the right things. Walking those stairs alone would probably kill me :-) . Did your doctor have any suggestions? Maybe changing up your diet would help you to not have swings in your BG levels?

According to my A1c to BG conversion chart, your average BG level is 187-so maybe you need to change your medication schedule a bit? (Of course, I don't know anything aabout managing type 1- but these are the things I would consider if my A1c started to rise.)

Here's another thing I've learned - my January A1c was a 5.2 which equates to an average of 87, but my meters (One Touch Smart, and One Touch Ultra2) were consistently reading about 10-15 points lower, and I was forcing myself to carb-up to keep from going low- which I didn't need to do.

All the best to you :-)

Sandy


I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


Phishbowl
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 547
   Posted 3/24/2007 1:56 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the encouragement Sandy, and Donna; every little bit helps :-)

My Endo's only advice was to "follow a Diabetic Diet". This would be the one where 55% of calories should come from carbs - you know, the one we're all supposed to be following. 'Cause the main problem with having Diabetes isn't difficulty in metabolizing carbs...riiiiight - NOT!. Patient testimonials indicating time and again that a lower carb diet better maintains normal glucose levels just doesn't seem to be enough for them.
Cheers,
- Phishbowl (Type 1 since Jan'05 - Levemir, NovoRapid)
"What's Not Measured Is Not Managed"

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"-Epictetus


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5396
   Posted 3/24/2007 2:19 PM (GMT -7)   

Phishbowl, I'm so sorry you're going through misery with those numbers, especially when you're doing everything you're supposed to be doing.  I'm no one to be offering advice because I'm new at this and I'm not on any meds, but it just makes sense to me if the endo doesn't think you need to change the meds or the schedule, I would change what you're eating because what else is there to do?  I'd eat fewer carbs and more vegetables, no matter what the 'official' diabetic diet says.  What I don't understand is if carbs drive b.s. up, why would you have a diet of 55% carbs?  I think that's high for any diet actually.  I would eat more portions of veggies to replace the carb.  You can get carbs from beans and they have more fiber.  It sounds like you're getting a lot of exercise, so that's great.  And unless it reacts badly with your meds, I'd also have a glass of white wine at dinner.  Good luck.

Lanie


fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 3/25/2007 3:47 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Phishbowl,
Sorry to hear that the numbers aren't what you were hoping for, but I'm sure you'll find a way to improve them that works for you. Over here (UK) 7 -8% HbA1c is still commonly perceived as representative of good control, despite it being significantly higher than a healthy nondiabetic's level (4.6%).
If it helps at all, my own numbers were regularly in the 7's and 8's until I changed my diet around six years ago. I cut out most of the starchy carbohydrate (no more potatoes, pasta, wheat bread etc.) and replaced them with more vegetables, protein and fat. Now my HbA1c levels range between 4.6 and 5.4%. In addition, my lipid profile has improved significantly. Although that seemed counter intuitive at first, the more I read on the subject, the more sense it makes. As a species, for 99% of our evolutionary history we have flourished on a diet virtually without any starchy carbs and with much greater emphasis on protein and fat. Contemporary hunter gatherers who follow a similar diet are lean, active and have no diabetes or heart disease. I don't think our bodies can cope with the volume of carbohydrate that our medics, bless them, seem to think we should eat!
 
You can do it!
 
Best wishes,
 
fergusc 

jimjimmy
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 3/25/2007 6:42 PM (GMT -7)   
ask your doctor about taking chromium.

also, please take good care of your feet.

Phishbowl
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 547
   Posted 3/25/2007 7:20 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the replies, guys....I try to give myself credit where credit is due.

It's like my Dad used to say when I'd bring home a not-so-good mark from school, "Did you try your best? Only you know if you have." Your grade is a number based upon a set of criteria determined by someone else's standards. By medical standards, I could use some improvement, by my doctor's, mine, and most people who know me well, I've given it my all and then some. 24 hrs/day, 365 days/year, for over 2 years now (and even have the daily log to prove it - LOL).

Sometimes ya just gotta laugh or learn and move on. Like last night...I had pasta for the first time in months. Found myself at a whopping 17.8/320-ish just 3 hours later! Took correction dose of Rapid to bring it down and found myself spacing out about 4 hours later with a lovely 2.8/50! Didn't feel that one coming on till I was fixing with Glucose tabs and got the sweats and shakes AFTER I'd downed 2 of them. Ah well....Sometimes ya just gotta laugh...or learn from it and move on.

Learned: - pasta is unpredictable (even in small quantities), - correction dosing for really high highs is unpredictable, - the better controlled blood sugars, the lower they can drop before you notice signs (under 2.8/50 is no joy), - never go to bed for a few hours if taking a correction dose at bedtime, - it's sooooo easy to over-correct some lows ( you just don't want to stop eating).

Thanks again for all the encouragement and advice. Not so sure about the chromium thing, jimjimmy?? But I do take loveing care of my feet :-)

Ferusc - I'm so with you on the protein/fat thing. Trying to have an open-minded discussion with some of my medical team about diet (the one that works for me vs. the hi-carbs their diets are based on) is like my Epictetus quote below, "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows". I don't waste my breath or time anymore. 'Nuff said :-)

Thanks again, All...
Cheers,
- Phishbowl (Type 1 since Jan'05 - Levemir, NovoRapid)
"What's Not Measured Is Not Managed"

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"-Epictetus

Post Edited (Phishbowl) : 3/25/2007 8:24:12 PM (GMT-6)


4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 3/26/2007 4:27 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Phishbowl,

I'm so sorry about your A1C! It does seem you are doing all the right things ... and not being an insulin user, I can't comment on your schedule!

SOoooooooooo much is awesome, your height/weight (this from another 5'3" person who would love to weigh even 120!!!), your exercise, and your carbs aren't that high. I know I have to stay under 20 carbs per meal to keep my numbers down. Do you think that might make a difference?

What did your doctor say???
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 3/26/2007 6:32 PM (GMT -7)   
Phish,
Sometimes you just can't get there from here. So sorry about those numbers... I can help with the HDL and LDL's a little. I use olive oil as a type of garnish. I've started splashing it into a pan for eggs and putting it on bread instead of butter. I'm also eating avacados, olives and nuts more than I ever did before and my numbers are looking pretty good. I know I need to cut back on the beef but I eat so much chicken I'm about to grow feathers!

Try increasing those monounsaturated fats a bit and see if that helps the cholesterol numbers.
~ Jeannie
Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class!
Yours may be one of them...

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


Phishbowl
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 547
   Posted 3/26/2007 7:01 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the advice and encouragement, Ruth and Jeannie. Love this board for that :-)

I do do use EVOO almost daily and Becel (omega3) marg occasionally. Snacks are usually almonds (lately) or cheddar (old-yum!) but, I must admit, I do like french fries and potato chips a bit more than I should. I'll try bumping up the EVOO and might even try avocadoes again (haven't ever been fond of them).

Mostly eat lean pork and chicken and sometimes beef. Lentil, beef barley, and root-vegetable soups are a favorite for lunch along with some cheddar and a few whole-grain crackers and olives (love olives-yum).

A really good breakfast for me blood sugar-wise is a hard-boiled egg on whole grain toast with 1Tbs. marg (for frying and buttering toast), and a home-made cappucino with 1/2 pack Twin and 2-3Tbs. skim milk. Keeps me on an even keel without leaving me hungry before lunch. Not so good for cholesterol. Egg yolk thing. Hard-boiled egg white? Hmmmm...miiiight try it :-)

You've given me some food for thought, though. Think I'll try a few things and let you now if they work out.

Thanks again :-)
Cheers,
- Phishbowl (Type 1 since Jan'05 - Levemir, NovoRapid)
"What's Not Measured Is Not Managed"

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"-Epictetus


jimjimmy
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 3/26/2007 9:51 PM (GMT -7)   
chromium picolinate increases your metabolism and helps your body metabolize carbohydrates. they use it in TPN's (total parenteral nutrition) to help immobile patients break down carbs.
 
my mom actually lost some weight and gained better glucose control after taking it. you can buy chromium without a presciption at any pharmacy.
 
ever think about giving Crocs a try?
 
 
good luck to you.

gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 3/27/2007 10:09 AM (GMT -7)   

Phishbowl

I hear you on the doctor-carbs connection. Just about everybody that I am sent to spouts the ADA requirements as if they are written in stone.

AS a newly diagnosed diabetic, I followed every recommendation of the diabetes dietitian to the letter- I gained weight, the graph of my BG levels looked like the Alps- I was tired and cranky all the time. The more I read, the more I knew I was in BIG trouble and it was getting worse- so I took matters into my own hands, retooled my diet and exercise and came up with my own plan based on the insulin-resistance diet (which worked the best for me).  I tried the ADA diet, South Beach phase 2; Bernstein; weight watchers; Rosedale; Rozien and Oz; and insulin-resistance before I found the plan that suits me best. Using- insulin resistance where I pair one carb (15gr) with one protein (7 gr), I can enjoy whole grain carbs such as bread and pasta; winter squash and almost any fruit without messing up my blood sugar.

When I went back to the diabetes dietitian and reported my results, she told me that it was not possible for me to gain weight on the plan she gave me and that I clearly did not understand how to weigh and measure my food properly. Or perhaps, I was under-reporting what I was eating???? I was so mad- I pointed out to her that my PhD is in protein biochemistry and that I was such a star in the metabolism courses that I was paid by the department to tutor the medical and nutrition students that couldn't get the required Bs to move on in their programs.  Oh yeah- I was paying for that bad advice (125.00/hr) because my health insurance doesn't cover food counseling for diabetics- go figure!

I don't know where you live, but here in Ohio I can get a pasta made by Dreamfields that tastes really good and has just 5 net carbs per serving (1 cup for most of the shapes). I have eaten 3 portions at one time as an experiment (OK I love pasta with sauce!)- with no additional protein to balance it, and my BG didn't budge- they have a website where you can order if you can't find it locally.

I'm sure you'll find the way to get your numbers in line- keep smiling and nodding at the so-called experts- and walk your own path - to success.

sandy

 


I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 3/27/2007 4:05 PM (GMT -7)   
Oooooooo, just another rave for Dreamfields!!! While I eat very few carbs when I DO splurge Dreamfields is right up my alley! I have a favorite low carb online grocery store where I shop and will be glad to list the name if Jeannie143 will "ok" if for me. How about it, Jeannie?? I"m not working for them but would love to share the link! I get a LOT of my non-perishable food there now!

Odd, but just today I was talking to a D.O. friend of mine about the dietitian I was sent to after becoming a diabetic. I didn't follow her advice because it seemed "fishy" to me ... and now I KNOW it would have done me in both weight wise AND blood sugar wise. Just follow the money trail ... I believe a lot of diet promotions are funded by drug companies. No, I don't have studies to prove that. Just read it somewhere and know the world well enough to know that where there's a promotion, there's usually an industry behind it.
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


Phishbowl
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 547
   Posted 3/27/2007 4:18 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for that, Sandy....you're so right about the doctors/nurses/dieticians/etc. just not getting it many times. My newly-diagnosed story could read much like yours and I very quickly ended up also realizing that I had to take control.

I've spent the last 2 years researching everything Diabetes. The history, studies, message boards, articles, medical journals, new medicine, biology, psycology, the immune system, and a whole lot more. Every day I do this and every day I log all food, drink, exercise, stress, insulin and the time of each. I know it may sound anal-retentive, but it is the only way I can analyse how everything I do/eat affects me, personally. Guess I might mention I'm an ITproject manager/metrics specialist. Hate "math" but have an apptitude for organization and analysis of data - go figure! (Ha, ha...like the pun? :-)

I just quickly understood that Diabetes was going to be with me forever and that it was in my best interest to know as much about it as possible. I've been on thyroid meds for 20+ yrs., have a history of ovarian cycts (PCOS?), and now Diabetes. I find the inter-relationship of the whole immune/metabolic/endocrin systems quite facinating and how they all relate in my situation. Many medical professionals don't like you knowing their job sometimes better than they do. I call them "text book doctors" - incapable of taking what they know and applying it to an individual situation/person. I'm lucky in that my Endo and GP know and agree that I'm driving and that they are my navigators, making sure I stay on course. It really is all up to me...with every choice I make...from one hour to the next...24 hrs/day...forever. That's also why I do have to give myself credit where credit is due. Every little bit helps :-)

Jimjimmy....gotta be honest...not big on supplements and heavy metal ones just well, scare me. I will read up on it, though. If fo no other reason than to learn. Tried to link to Crocks url but couldn't. Will look into it.

Thanks to All!! (Especially for listening :-)

Cheers,
- Kris
Cheers,
- Phishbowl (Type 1 since Jan'05 - Levemir, NovoRapid)
"What's Not Measured Is Not Managed"

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"-Epictetus


jayson
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 3/27/2007 10:02 PM (GMT -7)   
Regarding your A1C questions and Cholestrol levels, I ran in the 7's for a while until I really starting exercising and went on the pump, and I decreased my carbs and would eat low fat foods and whole wheat carbs, and increased protein, my A1C's lowered below 7 for a while now, the smoking as little as it might sound does effect cholestrol levels, trust me i know, i started smoking when i was a kid being mad at the world about diabetes and it hung around me for a while, until i learned im not invincible. Also a big drop an A1C is not ever expected w/in the time frame of your next labs, it should gradually come down.

gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 3/28/2007 9:21 AM (GMT -7)   
Kris,
 
I'm glad to hear that I am not the only anal-retentive on this list yeah I also record everything I eat, water consumption, my medicines, exercise, mood, stressors, BG readings (3-5 times a day), illness. I break down my foods by Total Carbs, Fiber, Sugars, Sugar Alcohols; Total fat; type of fat; proteins etc. I track my lab results. I am building a nice VB front end to my Access database so I can spit out reports for my doctor- it's been a good way for me to keep in practice (programming), since I don't have time to develop web sites right now. I find it comforting and it gives me the illusion of control (lots of laughing here!) As a trained scientist- I just love data analysis- too bad my 'health care' team isn't as fond of it.
 
So many doctors just want to 'go by the book' - when my first doctor told me  that a 'big study' proved that EVERY diabetic needs to take metformin+ACE inhibitor+statin+baby aspirin and here's your prescriptions for them- I ran for the hills- my blood pressure runs so low that if I took that ACE inhibitor, I'd probably pass out on a regular basis. I asked her what I could do to treat a BP low caused by the ACE and she looked blank. My lipid profile is also very good for a diabetic. LDL is always around 80-85; HDL 60+;triglycerides around 75 - what did she hope would happen if I took Lipitor? Again, she had no answer - just that EVERY diabetic......grrrrrr I asked her for the name/ reference for the study so I could read it and interpret the results for myself- needless to say- she was no longer my doctor when I walked out of her door.
 
about the crocs - if you go to crocs.com and look under the crocsRX tab- you'll see the shoes.
 
sandy
I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


Phishbowl
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 547
   Posted 3/28/2007 5:01 PM (GMT -7)   
OH...those are Crocks. Seen 'em before but never knew they were called Crocs. Would have to touch/feel/try them before considering buying them, though. Might look and see who carries them in Ontario, Canada. I just don't buy things on-line.

I know quitting smoking is something I have to do. I will. Before my 40th BDay this fall. Gonna try for this summer - when I hate smoking the most (too humid, I'm way more active, etc.). Spring has hit us early this year so, the bike will be coming out sooner than anticipated - Yay! I'm hoping the increased exercise, recently ammended diet, and (hopefully) less stress, over the next few months, will see my next A1C going down (however incrementally, I'll take it :-)

Excel spreadsheets (that's what I use), Access...whatever it takes to answer those questions I ask myself about how I'm doing on an on-going basis. Doctors like to talk a lot about preventative therapies...well, my own preventative therapy is to be on top of always knowing how I'm doing and not finding things have gone awry only at the 3-4 month mark (A1C). I often refer to previous data to see how I can better deal with reeoccuring situations (sickness, buffet eating, alcohol, etc.). Without my data I'd feel like I was flying blind. I fly the plane 24/7 so, I gotta know where I need to go :-)

Sandy - your scenarios make me laugh and think...it scares them when you confuse their logic with facts :-)

Cheers,
Kris
Cheers,
- Phishbowl (Type 1 since Jan'05 - Levemir, NovoRapid)
"What's Not Measured Is Not Managed"

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"-Epictetus


AMM
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 234
   Posted 3/30/2007 5:07 AM (GMT -7)   
I hope you are able to work out a way to get a pump. I had horrible a1c's before the pump. (We're talking over 10) I now average about 150 g of carbs a day and my most recent a1c was 7.1. I expect the next one to be even better. Part of this past a1c is from before I went on the pump. I know they are terribly expensive but if you can find a way that would be great. Does your insurance deny you coverage for one?
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.  Shouldn't I be invincible by now?


Phishbowl
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 547
   Posted 3/30/2007 12:41 PM (GMT -7)   
I hear what you're sayin', AMM. According to my team of docs, I AM doing everything possible to manage my BGLs and that a pump is the only way left for me to go to see better A1C results. Unfortunately, Hubby and I were both victims of the high-tech downsizing that's occured over the past few years and as such do not currently have insurance. Looks like that may change in the near future with some recently encouraging employment prospects but, until I sign on the dotted line....I gotta make do with MDI.

Cheers,
Kris
Cheers,
- Phishbowl (Type 1 since Jan'05 - Levemir, NovoRapid)
"What's Not Measured Is Not Managed"

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"-Epictetus


AMM
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 234
   Posted 3/30/2007 2:19 PM (GMT -7)   
Phishbowl, I've been there. I had to wait 5 years to get insurance that would cover a pump. I'm really hoping you soon will have the means to get a pump.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.  Shouldn't I be invincible by now?


notime4me
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 3/30/2007 3:23 PM (GMT -7)   
Phishbowl,
I would try a Soft-Moc location for Crocs. They carry the line so they may have those that are made for diabetics.
With the provinical government now covering pumps and supplies for kids 18 and under I am sure a lot of kids will be upgrading their pumps and it is my understanding that they do not need to return their old ones to the company. If you are dealing with a Clinic they may be able to connect you with a family that is upgrading. I am not sure if this is allowed as it is a medical device but it is worth a try.
I hope you are able to find a way to get your hands on a pump, I think they are great. The pump has made all the difference to my daughter.

Phishbowl
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 547
   Posted 3/31/2007 6:48 AM (GMT -7)   
notime4me....what a great suggestion!! I don't know how the upgrade part of the process works (i.e. if you have to "trade in" your old pump to get a new one), but I will definitely inquire of my CDE when I touch base with her this week (My team is part of my city's Diabetes Clinic). Wouldn't that just feel like winning the lottery if I can obtain a pump through that avenue, eh?! Hey...maybe even start my own program to facilitate that kind of exchange. You've really given me some food for thought!

The good news to share is that I recently met the requirements for a disability tax credit that would cover about $6,000, so essentially, if I can come up with the cash I can somewhat get reimbursed for a pump (wouldn't cover the monthly supplies required, though). hey! Wouldn't that be great if I could get a pump through an exchange, for minimal dollars, and then get to use my tax credit to essentially cover my supplies expenses for the year. OK, ok, gotta check this one out folks. Will let you know if I can get anywhere with it.

BTW...I think you're right about Soft-Moc stores and also I think Naturalizer stores might carry them. Will check it out soon - I've got both stores in a mall just up the road. Will let you know :-)

Thanks again, Everyone!
Kris
Cheers,
- Phishbowl (Type 1 since Jan'05 - Levemir, NovoRapid)
"What's Not Measured Is Not Managed"

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"-Epictetus


AMM
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 234
   Posted 3/31/2007 6:57 AM (GMT -7)   
They help to provide pumps and pump supplies to those who cannot afford it, all over the world.  At least that is what they say! 
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.  Shouldn't I be invincible by now?


jimjimmy
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 4/9/2007 4:32 PM (GMT -7)   
Have you given chromium a try, yet? My mom actually lost some weight, and she says she feels alot more energetic.
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