Atkins and Bernstein

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LanieG
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   Posted 4/14/2007 10:28 PM (GMT -7)   
Can someone explain these two diets?  A couple of people have mentioned them here and I'd like to know if they are similar or different or what?  Why are they "good" for diabetics?
Thanks,
Lanie

4sons
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Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 4/15/2007 4:04 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey ...

I think it's the low carb thang.
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


Warren
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Date Joined Oct 2005
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   Posted 4/16/2007 11:26 AM (GMT -7)   

Hi Lanie,

They are BOTH very low carb diets.  The way they are laid out and executed varies, but in the end, they both propose an extremely low carb lifestyle.  Two recent studies in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine show that the Atikins diet really does work (it allows for much faster weight loss without increasing Cholesterol or any other health risk factors).  This in particular has caused the American Diabetes Association to back off its Carbohydrate stance in its "total diet" and they are now gradually proposing a reduced carb diet as their official standard.

Could we all benefit from a substantially reduced carb diet.  I truely believe so.  I can see a dramatic difference in my 2 hour post prandials when I have steak and salad for dinner vs. anything with more carbs involved.  In any event, I hope this answers your question.

scool Warren

LanieG
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Total Posts : 5408
   Posted 4/16/2007 2:03 PM (GMT -7)   

Thanks for the information, Warren.  It seems that every time there's a breakthrough diet or treatment, there'll be a study that discredits it and then later on another study that discredits that.  Nearly every "study" I've read about is proven to be right and then wrong and vice versa some time later.  In one of Mendosa's books, he said that early in the 20th century diabetics were told to have a very low carbohydrate diet but statisics years later indicated that they had a higher level of heart attacks, so the ADA changed to the one based on carbs (what is it, 55%?).  But now that I was told I'm "pre-diabetic", I found that cutting out bread, potatoes, most pasta and white rice keeps my numbers in control.  (Let's not talk about that chocolate peanut butter bunny on Easter.)  I've heard good and bad reviews of the Atkins diet.  It seems the Bernstein diet is similar in that natural fats are ok.  Well, I'll eat a steak or beef a couple of times a week, chicken and fish and lots of vegetables and anything with green leaves and some beans - but I just can't go back to real bacon and real butter on a regular basis.  My morning numbers are still in the 80's and 90's when I stick to that food and throw in some strawberries (or other berries).  Anyway, thanks for answering. :-)

Lanie


fergusc
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Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 4/16/2007 2:46 PM (GMT -7)   
I've read both books and the fundamental principles are the same. Such differences as there are relate to the fact that Bernstein's approach is specifically tailored to diabetics and proposes a strict reduction in carbs forever more. Atkins suggests eliminating carbs completely for a short while until the body enters a state of ketosis (fat burning) and then slowly reintroducing them at a restricted level. This isn't aimed at diabetics to the same extent.
Both approaches make much more sense than the ADA / Diabetes UK diets in that blood sugars will be more stable, more predictable and insulin usage will be greatly reduced. It's interesting that starchy carbs are the enemy with both approaches and yet still officially endorsed.
I've read in some medical texts recently that nondiabetics typically produce between 0.4 / 0.5 units/kg /day insulin on a  'natural' diet  (veg, protein, fat, limited starch). I'm type 1 and compare favourably with this on a low carb diet. Any other insulin users out there able to volunteer their insulin usage / diet for comparison? I think it's a really important subject.
 
All the best,
 
fergusc

harry4
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Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 1449
   Posted 4/16/2007 5:12 PM (GMT -7)   

atkins has modified his diet in his later books but does claim it excellent for overweight diabetics, as it was for me, being both

atkins claims insulin dependent diabetics have been able to stop using insulin on his diet, I never used insulin but am able to much reduce my metformin on atkins, but I stress that atkins hasnt cured my diabetes

a caution thats not stressed enough is that constipation can be very severe on starting any no  carb diet, while your body makes the change, psysillium husk or similar fiber and laxatives being needed


recovered former longtime anxiety and panic attack sufferer and helper of other sufferers  but no training or  qualifications in medicine or psychology, any remarks that may be taken as advice must be confirmed with doctor or other health professional
emails are welcome but do mention healingwell to avoid risk of deletion as spam


LanieG
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Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5408
   Posted 4/17/2007 6:37 AM (GMT -7)   
Fergusc and Harry, thanks for your responses.  I think I'm in a muddle because of contradictions regarding the information available, and that keeps changing, on the Atkins diet.  I hadn't heard of Bernstein until Fergusc mentioned it.  I don't understand how there can be 'studies' that condemn Atkins and then support the diet.  Which is it?  I follow a diet that restricts simple and complex carbohydrates but I don't eat butter or fatty meats, just lean beef, chicken and fish, olive oil and nuts.  The carbs I get come from vegetables (no potatoes) and some beans.  I am worried about cholesterol but according to those diets, it doesn't come from meat, eggs or milk fats?  Whew! Thanks for all your information.  Have a great day!
Lanie 

Jeannie143
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 4/17/2007 11:05 AM (GMT -7)   
Lanie,
I have tried both the Atkins and Bernstein, South Beach, Zone and a variety of other diets. They all start out great and then I start feeling socially isolated from people who eat more normally. I have found that lots of monounsaturated fats (your nuts and olive oils), moderately low fat meats, lots of veggies and limited carbs works great for me. I also occasionally go to the local Chinese Buffet and enjoy myself because that makes me happy.

I try to do the "All things in moderation" lifestyle and that seems to work really well. Just my 2ยข.
~ Jeannie
Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class!
Yours may be one of them...

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5408
   Posted 4/17/2007 12:12 PM (GMT -7)   
Yes!  Thanks, Jeannie.  That's become the same way I eat.  And moderation is also a key.  I only wish this had come upon me many years ago.  Have a great day!
yeah
Lanie

fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 4/17/2007 1:39 PM (GMT -7)   

Lanie,

Your diet sounds great to me. Were I a betting man, I'd put a few quid on your test results being pretty enviable.

As far as condemnation of low carb principles goes, I think most of it stems from vested interest groups who don't like the orthodoxy challenged. I'd include the medical establishment, drugs companies and the food industry (low fat food alone must generate billions!)

My research into cholesterol has revealed lots of interesting stuff. Fistly, the body manufactures 75% of its own cholesterol, principally in response to carbohydrate consumption. Lots of research confirms levels are elevated following starchy meals, but much less after protein or fat is eaten. Most interesting of all are the statisics which show that heart attack victims typically have cholesterol levels no higher than those who don't suffer heart attacks. Most surprisingly , large studies over a long period of time in Paris are showing females with higher cholestorol levels are living longer than those with low levels.

Whew indeed!

fergusc


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5408
   Posted 4/17/2007 2:27 PM (GMT -7)   

Fergusc, on May 14th I have my annual physical.  If I don't have good test results on all my blood tests after giving up most pasta, baguettes, croisants and mashed potatoes for about 6 months by then, I'm going to have the biggest bowl of full-fat, full-sugar chocolate ice cream (with sprinkles and whipped cream with a marachino cherry) that Baskin Robbins can make.

yeah Lanie tongue


gelchick
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Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 4/17/2007 2:49 PM (GMT -7)   

Fergusc

I have to add my .02 here- I just spent the better part of last week in and  out of the hospital with severe dehydration, a kidney infection, a bladder infection, a middle ear infection- and who knows what else. For the few meals I was there, I was served up an unbelievable amount of carbs- for example:

Breakfast = orange juice ( I was not low!); pancakes with margarine and syrup; cereal with milk; and some canned fruit

Dinner = macaroni and cheese; peas, white bread; 1/2 cup of head lettuce 'salad'; jello; milk (no meat bec I am a vegetarian!)

I was almost dead- but I inisisted on speaking to the 'diabetic' expert dietitian- when I pointed out that I generally eat 1-2 proteins; 1-2 non-starchy carbs; and a small mount of heart healthy fat at each of my meals- I was told that I was being given  ADA standard meals and that I should eat up- I told the guy that a meal like that would drive my BG up over 200 and he looked me in the eye and told me that I should be on MORE medicine so that I could eat a nice normal meal.

I had my husband smuggle in Boost drinks and some nice salads after that- and that's what I 'ate' until they  let me go home.

Lanie-

I will post the cheesecake recipe for you soon- as soon as I have the strength to go through the my Christams recipes out in the garage! sorry.

sandy


I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 4/17/2007 2:52 PM (GMT -7)   

Good luck, Lanie. I reckon you'll deserve that ice cream.

Keep us posted so I can help you celebrate!

fergusc


LanieG
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Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5408
   Posted 4/17/2007 5:58 PM (GMT -7)   

Omigosh, Sandy, I hope you're better, having survived the hospital stay which could have made you worse!  Don't worry about the recipe - take care of yourself.  That's more important. 

Fergusc,  don't worry.  When I find out my results, I'll be crowing if they're good.  If they're not, I'll be stuffing my face with that ice cream.

Lanie 


fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 4/18/2007 1:37 AM (GMT -7)   

Sandy,

I'm really sorry to hear about your recent illness. And equally shocked by how ill informed some supposed experts can be. It's no wonder hospitals are full of sick people!

I spent a month in hospital 4 years ago and eventually discharged myself when a doctor agreed with my suggestion that my recovery would be much quicker at home, free from hospital infections and terrible diet. My family run smuggling operation came to my rescue too!

Best wishes for a full and speedy recovery Sandy

Cheers,

fergusc

 


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 4/18/2007 11:51 AM (GMT -7)   
Whenever possible I stay away from the hospital. It has been my experience that incompetency runs rampant, administrations and insurance companies dictate policy, they are short staffed and the people in place are severely overworked. There are some huge problems in our medical industry and I certainly don't know the answers. I simply feel that if the woods are dangerous, stay out of the woods! The same is true for hospitals.

I know that emergency situations make it necessary to go in for help but even the last time I had pneumonia I refused to let my doctor admit me. I went home to my loving family with lots of meds and rested in my own environment. I got better without complications and didn't catch any of the super infections that are roaming hospital coridors looking for weak prey.
~ Jeannie
Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class!
Yours may be one of them...

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 4/18/2007 3:12 PM (GMT -7)   
gelchick said...
Fergusc

I have to add my .02 here- I just spent the better part of last week in and out of the hospital with severe dehydration, a kidney infection, a bladder infection, a middle ear infection- and who knows what else. For the few meals I was there, I was served up an unbelievable amount of carbs- for example:

Breakfast = orange juice ( I was not low!); pancakes with margarine and syrup; cereal with milk; and some canned fruit

Dinner = macaroni and cheese; peas, white bread; 1/2 cup of head lettuce 'salad'; jello; milk (no meat bec I am a vegetarian!)

I was almost dead- but I inisisted on speaking to the 'diabetic' expert dietitian- when I pointed out that I generally eat 1-2 proteins; 1-2 non-starchy carbs; and a small mount of heart healthy fat at each of my meals- I was told that I was being given ADA standard meals and that I should eat up- I told the guy that a meal like that would drive my BG up over 200 and he looked me in the eye and told me that I should be on MORE medicine so that I could eat a nice normal meal.

I had my husband smuggle in Boost drinks and some nice salads after that- and that's what I 'ate' until they let me go home.

Lanie-

I will post the cheesecake recipe for you soon- as soon as I have the strength to go through the my Christams recipes out in the garage! sorry.

sandy


SANDY! I'm so sorry!!! It's soooooo hard being sick, isn't it? When I was doing the fever/vomiting thing my doctor told me to IGNORE my BS and just EAT something. I was as good as I could stomach and then have had a DICKENS of a time being good again. I'm still not bad, bad ... but not as faithful as I've been for months now, and my bs indicates it!

What are doctors thinking? Wait ... they're not.

"A nice normal mean." GOOD GRIEF! eyes
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


wmnak
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 1123
   Posted 4/19/2007 10:30 PM (GMT -7)   

Sandy, et al ...  Thanks SO! much for sharing your hospital experience.  I thought it was just me.  I was an inpatient for 4 days in February 2006 - and still don't have my bg as well under control as before.  They insisted I eat all the high carb foods, then gave me insulin all the time - and I didn't have sense or energy enough to argue.  Nevermore!   

Re diet; Atkins works when I stick to it.   :-)   Martha

Post Edited (wmnak) : 4/19/2007 11:35:05 PM (GMT-6)

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