A Grand Experiment!

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Jeannie143
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 4/25/2007 9:49 AM (GMT -7)   
Well, I've run out of Avandia and can't afford to buy any more so I've decided to take the bull by the horns and fight this thing really hard. I still have my metformin and my Lantus. I can still swim for exercise and I can still monitor what I put in my mouth.

For two days the only carbs I have consumed have been in my vegetables, fruits and some pinto beans last night with dinner. No rice, bulgar, barley, potatoes, bread or oatmeal. I have had an orange each day, radishes, salad greens and fresh veggies, apple each day, and the ultimate cheat... coffee creamer in my coffee. Eating eggs, cheese, chicken and lean pork... will probably add some beef, turkey and venison to the mix as well.

So far I've been running level before meals at around 95 and 2 hrs pp at around 125. Will be swimming today... Maybe I'll be able to swim a little every day. We will see. This is really hard.

Wish me luck!
~ Jeannie
Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class!
Yours may be one of them...

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


What's his name?
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 24
   Posted 4/25/2007 11:07 AM (GMT -7)   
It's hard to see how you could be doing better than that.

Warren
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 534
   Posted 4/25/2007 11:29 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Jeannie,
 
I hope this works for you!  I want to point out that just as it takes about 2 weeks for the full effect of Avandia to be felt in your system once you start using it, it will take a couple of weeks for the residual effects to be gone once you stop taking it!  Im guessing that even if you have to up your lantus a little bit you can probably do well enough without the Avandia.  It was the first med that my doctor eliminated for me when I went to Byetta and he was not unhappy to see it go!!  So that being said, if you can manage without it, you are much better off as the water retention and other side effects can be really nasty long term.
 
scool  Warren

gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 4/25/2007 4:15 PM (GMT -7)   

Good Luck Jeannie!

I'm with Warren here- the best day of my diabetic life was the day I stopped taking Actos (Avandia's cousin!). All of the water weight disappeared, my nose stopped dripping, my legs stopped hurting. Your eating plan sounds good to me- except for the meats of course. I do find that barley and lentils do not spike me one bit, so you may be able to add some grain back into your diet.

I'll be praying for your success!

sandy


I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 4/25/2007 5:44 PM (GMT -7)   
WOW ... good luck! While I don't do meds it's hard to see how giving up one and living the low carb life couldn't be helpful!
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 4/25/2007 6:06 PM (GMT -7)   
I sure won't miss the avandia this summer... My feet used to look like cabbages all summer. I'll try to add back some barley week after next when my avandia is totally out of my system and see if it works.
Thanbks for all the support.
~ Jeannie
Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class!
Yours may be one of them...

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5408
   Posted 4/25/2007 8:32 PM (GMT -7)   
Jeannie, good luck to you with this challenging situation!  I have a naive question, so please forgive me.  I don't take any meds, so I'm not familiar with this.  Why wouldn't you have cut back on the carbs and increased the vegetables before this - since carbs definitely cause higher blood glucose numbers?   What you wrote about now is just about what I eat for dinner and sometimes lunch in a smaller version: a salad, piece of meat, 2 vegetables and some beans, and some side raw crunchies like radishes, cucumber, celery.  Thanks.
 
Lanie  confused
"pre-diabetic" controlled so far by diet and exercise


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 4/26/2007 9:42 AM (GMT -7)   
I wouldn't have cut back to those foods before because I was a spoiled brat who wanted her pasta once in a while and who LOVES sourdough and home made bread. I'm a carbaholic who has been having my little tortilla wrap for lunch... my baked potato with dinner and sourdough toast for breakfast. I'm a busy lady who doesn't always have the time or the money to buy pre-prepared veggies, so I must clean the veggies I eat... It is so much easier to just grab a sandwich than it is to make a salad....

Because I'm not as good at self control as you are Lanie... But I'm tryin'.... Heck! It took me 10 years to accept my diabetes was real and it didn't even make it thru this thick skull of mine until I started on insulin and had to buy a medical alert bracelet to wear 24/7. And because of my nickle allergies, I had to buy a pretty, solid gold bracelet so it looks like a lovely piece of jewelry..., because I'm a big baby who hates being told what to do..., because like all of you I'm still in denial some of the time... because my doctor was smart enough to realize that since I wouldn't always eat correctly for my disease she would medicate me to the best of her ability to preserve my health...

I'm still like you, learning.... I'm just a little further on down the line. If you don't take anything else from this, learn from my mistakes. At least then my stupidity won't be for nothing... sad
~ Jeannie
Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class!
Yours may be one of them...

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

Post Edited (Jeannie143) : 5/5/2007 9:10:48 PM (GMT-6)


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5408
   Posted 4/26/2007 11:18 AM (GMT -7)   

Ohh, Jeannie!  I was in the dark, so I had to ask you.  Actually, I've been in the dark for a long time and it's only because of the forum that I feel like I'm beginning to understand things.   A few years ago when my doctor told me my fasting number was elevated (115) and that I should watch what I eat, I didn't know how.  She gave me a "heart healthy" diet and that was that.  It was only last fall when she prescribed a glucose monitor that I began to read more and more about diabetes.  Duh. Head in the sand.  Diabetes killed my mother and grandmother, so you'd think I would know more.  I didn't.  I don't buy any pre-prepared food, but after I do the grocery shopping, I divide the large packages of chicken, beef, or fish (think Costco) into packages for meals, wrap them in plastic and mark what they are (because when I didn't do that we sometimes had dinner surprise).  I clean up the fresh vegetables like broccoli and cauliflower and freeze them.  You can freeze a lot of vegetables yourself so it takes minutes to boil, broil or sautee them.   Time is rushed in the morning, so the more I can have ready to go, the better.  Also, I always cook more than we eat, so the leftovers are usually eaten two days later.  For lunch I make a large can of tuna salad and that's good for me for 2 or 3 lunches with lettuce - I make lettuce wraps with almonds and celery. 

I hope we all hang in there.  Everyone has been helpful here and I've learned a lot from their experiences.  Take care.  

   yeah     Lanie


"pre-diabetic" controlled so far by diet and exercise


fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 4/26/2007 3:02 PM (GMT -7)   
Good luck with the freaky eating Jeannie!! I'm sure you can do it and I'm just as sure your health will benefit from the experiment just as mine has done.
I think that the bottom line is that we're all fundamentally carb addicts. In our evolutionary history only a few thousand years ago, sweet or starchy foods were so rare (very occasional greens and sweet berries) that we have evolved a basic impulse to eat them whenever we can, so we can lay down some fat for the lean times to come. Now we live in a world with a super-abundance of these things, and our impulses can't be turned off. The very urges that would have given our ancestors survival advantages are now giving us obesity, diabetes, hypertension etc., etc.
Me, I never thought I could live without chocolate, cheesecake, or with a bit of luck, the two combined. For years I'd maintained a pretty careful diet with these twin crutches to support me. It also helped psychologically that I could still eat the stuff all nondiabetics get to enjoy.
Then all of a sudden, just a few weeks ago, I stopped. I really didn't see it coming, but having not eaten them for over a month now, the urge has gone! I'm astonished, and to be honest it's actually liberating. Giving up pasta, potatoes, bread, rice and fruit wasn't so hard (well, apart from the bread) but now I feel I've turned a corner. It sounds like quite a sacrifice I know, but I reckon it's a price worth paying for my normal blood sugars.
 
All the best,
 
fergusc

4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 4/26/2007 4:32 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow, you guys ... we really all are in the same boat!!!

Let's talk fruit. Who eats what?
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 4/26/2007 5:17 PM (GMT -7)   
At present I eat an orange at breakfast (a small one), an apple with lunch and 1/2 a banana for dessert after dinner. The second half is my bedtime snack with 18 peanuts. What I like about these fruits...
Orange, vitamin C and potassium, Apple malic acid (which helps diabetics with energy production in the mitochondria of the cells) and some fiber, Banana, YUMMMMM factor and potassium.

You all are super to put up with my whining.
~ Jeannie
Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class!
Yours may be one of them...

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5408
   Posted 4/26/2007 5:36 PM (GMT -7)   

Well, I surely agree about the difficulty of giving up bread and chocolate.  At Easter I went overboard with a chocolate peanut butter bunny and I paid dearly for it, so I've decided to give up bunnies.  :)

Lanie


"pre-diabetic" controlled so far by diet and exercise


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 4/26/2007 8:47 PM (GMT -7)   
Lanie,
Chocolate isn't really as evil as you may think, in tiny amounts. It is actually low enough on the glycemic index that they don't recommend eating a chocolate bar for hypoglycemic attacks in insulin users. The fat (cocoa butter) present slows down the sugar absorption! (LOL!) Now I'm not giving you absolution... just trying to temper your guilt a bit.
~ Jeannie
Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class!
Yours may be one of them...

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 4/27/2007 3:32 AM (GMT -7)   

You're right, Jeannie, the chocolate isn't that bad - only very difficult to restrict to one or two squares at a time! I also found that when I ate some, for as much as an hour afterwards I would feel the urge to just keep on eating. If I replace it with some cheese after dinner, it's much easier to stop and the blood sugars stay anchored at normal levels.

Just take a look at the nutritional info on the chocolate wrapper though. It's actualy much more balanced than any breakfast cereal you'll find. I've no idea how the manufacturers have been able to convince people that cereals are a healthy option but if we could put those guys to work selling vegetables our problems would be over!

As for fruit, I haven't eaten any in years. All the vitamins and fibre are there in the veg, only without the big dose of sugar.

Jeez, but I sound virtuous don't I?

All the best,

fergusc


Phishbowl
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 547
   Posted 4/27/2007 6:07 AM (GMT -7)   
Wow, Jeannie! I do wish you the best of luck. If anyone can tighten their belt on the radical diet change, you can. You know so much about Diabetes and nutrition that I have no doubts you will try all that is necessary to see if you can do without the Avandia. Like Warren, I too (and my docs) were happy to let that and other meds go - even if I did mean I was put on insulin (Type1) :-)

On the fruit thing... I always have that kind of carb (frutose) with some kind of fat and/or protein, (i.e. half apple with cheese, bite of banana with peanut butter, few berries on whole grain toast with peanut butter, tomato & cucumber salad with EVOO and balsamic). The vitamins/minerals in fruit and many veg are fat-soluable; meaning they should be eaten with some fat so that they can be absorbed. The other thing with most fruit is that all those valuable properties immediately start to deteriorate through oxidization once the fruit is cut. That's why if you're going to eat an orange say, the best way is to peel and eat the segments. That's also why you're hard-pressed to find any "packaged" OJ that doesn't have phrases like, "with added vitamin C & D", or "fortified with...", or "now with calcium" - they have to add the vitamins/minerals back in. Fresh-squeezed OJ SOUNDS great, but there's very little valuable properties left.

On the chocolate... I regularly eat a square of really good chocolate. Just a thin square (3-4 gr carbs) and usually the 65%-70% dark kind. I prefer Lindt (hey, my hubby is Swiss), and if you look at the ingredients of really good chocolate, there's very few (cocoa, cocoa butter, sugar). Most "chocolate" bars on the market are not actually chocolate bars, they're candy bars. Unless the bar is more than 60% (not 100% sure on this number), it can't be called a chocolate bar and must be called a a candy bar on the wrappers. Check it out.

Cheers,
Kris
Cheers,
- Phishbowl (Type 1 since Jan'05 - Levemir, NovoRapid)
"What's Not Measured Is Not Managed"

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"-Epictetus


gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 4/27/2007 8:41 AM (GMT -7)   

Okay - here's my fruit list - I eat raspberries (red and black); strawberries; apples; grapefruit; peaches; pears; blueberries - I eat 2 fruit portions (1 berry + 1 other) + 2 portions of F A G E fat-free low carb yogurt + 1/2 cup of steel cut oatmeal for breakfast every day- this breakfast drops my bg from 10-20 points. I have eaten this for dinner and it drops me then too.

I eat dark chocolate (70%-Lindt) about every other day in small amounts (1-2 squares). In theory, dark chocolate raises your HDL (the good cholesterol) levels- and I do think it's true in my case. When I gave up chocolate for about 5 months, my HDL went down from 55 to 48. As soon as I took up my habit again- my HDL went back up.  Now this is not scientific, but it was good enough for me yeah

sandy

 

Jeannie- I hope you are doing well today!!!!!!!


I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 4/27/2007 12:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Sandy and all,
Thanks for the power boost. I'm busy decorating cakes and stopped in to read...

Word of warning on the grapefruit = Don't take it if you are on Lipitor. The combination can kill you... and I'm not kidding. Something in grapefruit that's also in lipitor and the combo shuts down your liver.
Gotta run!
~ Jeannie
Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class!
Yours may be one of them...

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 4/12/2008 7:30 PM (GMT -7)   
Bump for the newbies.
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