The Pepsi challenge?

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Dead Man walking
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 6/21/2007 8:47 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey folks...
 
A question about diet pepsi. Does it affect blood sugar levels? 
 
How about Caffeine? and Imitation sweeteners?
 
By the way, my last A1C was 7.3! Not bad considering that I found out in January after a getting an A1C greater than 12.0.
 
See ... I have been listening to all your answers.
 
 
Thanks.

N17
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 6/22/2007 12:15 AM (GMT -7)   

Good score DMW.  Getting it down from there to 7.3.  Only .4 to 'normality'!  I think the artificial sweeteners in diet drinks can have a detrimental effect if you drink a lot.  I remember a study that said that they had absolutely no effect, but as with mobile phones, I'd say that caution is the watchword.  If I can be any more vague, I'll let you know!


"I love Italian.......and so do you"
"Yes"  -  Star Trek 4
 
Brian (Type 2 NIDDM).
 
N17 is the postcode for the London suburb of Tottenham.
Tottenham Hotspur is the greatest football team in the world!
 
...and Go Bengals! and the Cardinals!  and the Leafs!
 


fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 6/22/2007 4:10 AM (GMT -7)   

Well, on the one hand there is nothing in diet Pepsi which should raise your blood sugars. On the other hand, I can't understand why anyone would want to drink it. Revolting! It still tastes apallingly sweet and have you seem what it does to a coin if you drop it in there for a while? Maybe I'm a food fascist but drinking those sorts of things certainly won't do you any good.

Oh, and while I'm in ranting mode, who on earth thinks an HbA1C of 6.9% is 'normality'? I hope that was a joke I just didn't get. 6.9% is equivalent to an average blood sugar of 180 mg/dl or 10 mmol/l which before long will get you a one-way ticket to all sorts of diabetic complications. A normal healthy adults HbA1C is in the range of 4.3 - 4.6%; that's what I'd call normality. You don't have to accept what so many physicians might call an 'acceptible' HbA1C. Normal blood sugars ARE achievable. And I've had Type 1 for 26 years by the way. 

There, now I'll try to calm down......

All the best,

fergusc 


N17
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 6/22/2007 6:39 AM (GMT -7)   

 who on earth thinks an HbA1C of 6.9% is 'normality'? I hope that was a joke I just didn't get. 6.9% is equivalent to an average blood sugar of 180 mg/dl or 10 mmol/l which before long will get you a one-way ticket to all sorts of diabetic complications. A normal healthy adults HbA1C is in the range of 4.3 - 4.6%; that's what I'd call normality. You don't have to accept what so many physicians might call an 'acceptible' HbA1C. Normal blood sugars ARE achievable. And I've had Type 1 for 26 years by the way. 

 

Errm,

 

From Wikipedia:

 

The International Diabetes Federation and American College of Endocrinology recommends HbA1c values below 6.5%, while the range recommended by the American Diabetes Association extends to 7%.

 

OK, that might not be 'normal' levels, but that quote goes with what I've read elsewhere and been told by my doctor, regarding levels for us lot.  My most recent test (last week) was 6.1%.  Anything over 6 and they calculate the mean b/s, which according to the lab was 6.5.  My records would put it at bit below that. It was a disappointing result as my a1cs had been consistently in the mid to high 5s, but I'd had a pretty indifferent few months.  However, I know what you mean about having 'normal' b/s and a1c levels and hats off to you for doing achieving your numbers.


"I love Italian.......and so do you"
"Yes"  -  Star Trek 4
 
Brian (Type 2 NIDDM).
 
N17 is the postcode for the London suburb of Tottenham.
Tottenham Hotspur is the greatest football team in the world!
 
...and Go Bengals! and the Cardinals!  and the Leafs!
 


fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 6/22/2007 7:32 AM (GMT -7)   
Brian,

The ADA and the IDF should know better. In giving those sorts of numbers the stamp of official credibility they are effectively consigning countless diabetes sufferers to long term ill health and disease. Shame on them. Back in the old days when by HbA1C was often in the 7's, my doctors would write 'good control' on my records which, frankly, was rubbish.
There are many studies which correlate increased HbA1C with increased obesity, mortality and every darned complication imaginable. It must be the single most important little number there is.
I believe 6.1% equates to a mean blood sugar a wee bit higher than 6.5 mmol/l to be honest. Dr Bernstein has a formula, based on thousands of clinical trials, which goes something like this: HbA1C of 5% equals a blood sugar of 5.5 mmol/l. Every 1% over that equates to and additional 2.2 mmol/l. So 6.1% equals about 7.5 mmol/l.
I'm Type 1, so it's proving hard for me to get down to the low 4% range (best so far is 4.6%) without the risk of hypoglycemia getting too great. But as a Type 2 there are fewer risks for you I think, so you could potentially attain 'normal' numbers.

All the best,

fergusc

4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 6/22/2007 7:49 AM (GMT -7)   
I just read this past weekend that anything over a 6% AIC nets a HUGH increase in possible complications. As a diet/exercise person I HAVE to be below 6%. If I'm not next time I'm going to ask about meds. I can't run the risk ...
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


N17
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 6/22/2007 7:52 AM (GMT -7)   
fergusc said...
Brian,

The ADA and the IDF should know better. In giving those sorts of numbers the stamp of official credibility they are effectively consigning countless diabetes sufferers to long term ill health and disease. Shame on them. Back in the old days when by HbA1C was often in the 7's, my doctors would write 'good control' on my records which, frankly, was rubbish.
There are many studies which correlate increased HbA1C with increased obesity, mortality and every darned complication imaginable. It must be the single most important little number there is.
I believe 6.1% equates to a mean blood sugar a wee bit higher than 6.5 mmol/l to be honest. Dr Bernstein has a formula, based on thousands of clinical trials, which goes something like this: HbA1C of 5% equals a blood sugar of 5.5 mmol/l. Every 1% over that equates to and additional 2.2 mmol/l. So 6.1% equals about 7.5 mmol/l.
I'm Type 1, so it's proving hard for me to get down to the low 4% range (best so far is 4.6%) without the risk of hypoglycemia getting too great. But as a Type 2 there are fewer risks for you I think, so you could potentially attain 'normal' numbers.

All the best,

fergusc
Good points and well made.
"I love Italian.......and so do you"
"Yes"  -  Star Trek 4
 
Brian (Type 2 NIDDM).
 
N17 is the postcode for the London suburb of Tottenham.
Tottenham Hotspur is the greatest football team in the world!
 
...and Go Bengals! and the Cardinals!  and the Leafs!
 


gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 6/22/2007 8:04 AM (GMT -7)   

fergusc,

I think that most type 2's have a good bit of insulin resistance which makes it very hard for us to get the consistent low BG levels that are needed to achieve an A1c in the 4.3-4.6 range. From what I've seen, even if a type 2 is using insulin- it's used more like a pill (take your shot every night before bed). A proper low-carb diet and lots of exercise help, of course, but there is really no way for us to make those small corrections that Bernstein talks about in his book. In my own case, now that I don't take the pancreas stimulator any more, it is difficult for me to get below a bg level of the mid-80's. I tend to run in the low 90's unless I am doing a lot of slow, endurance type exercise like walking around the mall, shopping, vacuuming, or mowing the lawn - and even then I drop only to maybe 82-85. My A1c has been at 5.2 for 6 months now (down from 15 just one year ago come July), and I think I may not be able to go any lower until I am able to lose more weight and or build more muscle. My long range goal is to get it to 4.9 or under.

I fully agree with you that the so-called standards given by the medical associations are way too high. They really show the minimum probability for delaying complications based on those large studies that come out every so often. When I was first diagnosed, my doctor gave me such a chart and told me that if I could get my A1c to 7.0, it would most likely take X number of years before I might need my leg amputated- I asked her what A1c I needed to have to not get my leg amputated at all- and she told me 5 or under, but that was almost an impossibility for a diabetic.

Well, I just love a challenge - and I'm getting close. :-)

sandy


I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 6/22/2007 9:52 AM (GMT -7)   
Sandy,

That's the spirit! When I got my 4.6% reading, my doctor said he was 'shocked - that's far too low for a diabetic. 6 or 7% is what you need.' I asked him what his was and he looked flustered. 'Actually I don't know because I don't need to know.' I told him I'd rather be seen by someone who took a little more interst in such things and I haven't seen him since.

I don't think the ADA or Diabetes UK will change their 'goals' until they see their mistake on preaching starchy carbs with every meal. The two go hand in hand in my opinion.

I'm sure you'll get down into the 4's if you keep at it!

All the best,

fergusc

LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5408
   Posted 6/22/2007 11:29 AM (GMT -7)   

Holy mackeral, Sandy.  Are you saying the doctor told you that A1c tests in the 6's would most likely lead to amputations sometime in the future? 

Lanie      confused

 
"pre-diabetic" controlled so far by diet and exercise
following low/no carb diet, no meds


4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 6/22/2007 12:15 PM (GMT -7)   
lanieg said...
Holy mackeral, Sandy. Are you saying the doctor told you that A1c tests in the 6's would most likely lead to amputations sometime in the future?

Lanie [img]/community/emoticons/confused.gif[/img]


Lanie ... I recently read SOMEWHERE that anything above a 6% is "trouble ahead." I've been busy reading Dr. Bernstein's book this afternoon at the beach. HOLY SMOKES ... it sounds to me like *anything* but within that range is trouble. Now I'm wondering if I should be on some meds!!! If I'm not under 6 in August I'm going to ask about that very thing.

Sandy ... tell me again what meds you are on? I had forgotten you were still within your first year. Thinking back on things this afternoon I think that I may have been a diabetic for about five years pre-diagnosis. I'm going to try the Dr. B 6-12-6 carb thing and see what it does for my numbers.

Of course this said after I just ate a snack (one which I read I didn't necessarily need!!!).
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise

Post Edited (4sons) : 6/22/2007 1:18:39 PM (GMT-6)


gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 6/22/2007 3:20 PM (GMT -7)   
Lanie and Ruth,
 
Yes- she did tell me that I needed to get to 5 or below if I wanted reasonable assurance that I would bypass all of the nasty complications. Of course there are no guarantees and she was looking at a woman with 2 in-office stabs in the 460s who kept telling her that she had a UTI not diabetes :-)   
 
We have had several conversations about A1c goals since then, and she really believes that all of her patients should try to get to 5.0 or less. She is a type 2, her daughter is a type 1, and they both push for the higher end of normal. (She takes metformin and uses an insulin pump; her daughter is a pumper).
 
She was resistant to my low carb approach at first. She wanted me to eat at least 120-130 carbs a day- which I did for 14 days and then showed up with my horrible numbers. I also had my 75-80 carb numbers and my record of what I ate for those 4 weeks (with nutrient breakdown). The main difference was the amount of B vitamins I was eating (grains have a lot of B vitas) and the amount of sugar (surprise-not!). I now take a mixed B supplement, but have added beans back to my diet since then, so it may be unnecessary.  She didn't think much of the Insulin-Resistance approach either- but she cannot argue with my results. She actually asked me if I would talk to one of her new patients about how I eat -lol.
 
As for my drugs - I take 100mg of Januvia 1x/day; 500 mg Metformin with breakfast and dinner and 1000 mg metformin at night.  Once I hit the magic number (5 or less) we will cut back on the meds. I was hoping that Jeannie's banana remedy would work for me since I take the evening met to help combat my dawn phenomenon.
 
I just heard about a study that showed that ALzheimers might be a form (Type 3) of diabetes- i.e. diabetes of the brain. The research team found that the brain produces insulin just like the pancreas and that it can get insulin resistance too. This was shown in rats, not humans. The brains were shrunken and showed the same amyloid tangles that are seen in humans- and that it repsonded to diabetes meds just like the rest of the body - how scary is that?
 
sandy
 
I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5408
   Posted 6/22/2007 6:45 PM (GMT -7)   

Well, Sandy, I was sitting here with my mouth gaping open reading your post.  (And since my mouth was open, I popped in 2 squares of Lindt 70% dark chocolate.)  Now, I realize all the more reason to stick to this new lifestyle.  I'm hoping my next A1c will be lower than 5.6 which was last month.  I'll be seeing the doctor again in September, so I have a target month.  I found the Lindt chocolate bar but not the individually wrapped pieces.  The supposed serving is 4 squares but that's 220 calories, so I'll eat one or two squares and if it's after a meal (like tonight), they won't really affect my blood sugar.  I just can't eat the chocolate in between meals as a snack.  about the brain:  Way back several years ago, an article in Readers' Digest citing a study in the Archives of Neurology said the male brain shrinks faster than the female brain as we age resulting in poorer memory, more depression and irritability ("grumpy old men"?) because older men's brains metabolize glucose at a faster rate than when they were younger, whereas the older female brain seems to reduce its metabolic rate and not have as high a need of glucose.  Yet, most Alzheimer's patients are female.  An interesting study, I think. 

In any case, thanks for the information about the A1c.  It sounds like you've made a complete turnaround in the last year!  Great!           yeah

Lanie
"pre-diabetic" controlled so far by diet and exercise
following low/no carb diet, no meds


JGriffin
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 104
   Posted 6/22/2007 7:16 PM (GMT -7)   
In answer to the original post about diet Pepsi.....I have only this week given up diet Dr. Pepper and my husband has stopped drinking diet Coke. They both contain aspertame. I was having pressure headaches, migraines, and lights in the eyes like an aura before a migraine. My husband began having them also. After many tests, the doctor called them migraines and said that there had to be an environmental trigger. We began doing some detective work. I have had seasonal allergies, sinus infections, headaches, etc. for the past three months. During that time because of the infections and antibiotics prescribed, my 5.2 A1C went up to 5.7. After stopping the diet colas, neither my husband or myself have had headaches, migraines, or lights in the eyes. My morning sugars have also dropped. I believe that diet colas of any type that contain ASPERTAME are toxic and dangerous to everyone.....and more so to diabetics. I kept looking in everything I was consuming and found aspertame in sugar-free gum and candy and even in regular Juicy Fruit that also contains three other real sugars. How much sweeter can you get it than three types of sugar? Why add an artificial sweetner? If you want to see the reactions that aspertame can cause, do a search online. You will find hundreds of reputable websites and a good number of strange ones...all warning of the health hazards of aspertame. It reminds me of the MSG problem of years ago...or the hydrogenated fat that everyone is only now admitting was a problem. All I know is my blood sugar is down, my headache is gone, and no more lights in my eyes. Check those labels and do your own research. I could have saved myself a few months worth of pain and a lot of money for tests.

Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 6/22/2007 8:48 PM (GMT -7)   
Caffeine (found in most colas) also drives up blood glucose and can cause migraines so that could be the culprit as well... Me, I have no issues with aspartane, spenda or the pink stuff... except the pink stuff tastes AWFUL tongue !!!

Dead Man, congratulations on the improved A1C. I hope it continues to go lower as you improve your food plan and exercise level. I love soda and could drink it by the gallon but to lower the impact on me with the caffeine and sweeteners I mix mine half and half with ice water. Makes it not so sweet and not quite as fizzy... I must be turning into an old f*rt since sweet is starting to bother me... LOL!
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class! Yours may be one of them...
==================
"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 6/23/2007 7:38 AM (GMT -7)   
fergusc said...

The ADA and the IDF should know better. In giving those sorts of numbers the stamp of official credibility they are effectively consigning countless diabetes sufferers to long term ill health and disease. Shame on them. Back in the old days when by HbA1C was often in the 7's, my doctors would write 'good control' on my records which, frankly, was rubbish.
There are many studies which correlate increased HbA1C with increased obesity, mortality and every darned complication imaginable. It must be the single most important little number there is.
I believe 6.1% equates to a mean blood sugar a wee bit higher than 6.5 mmol/l to be honest. Dr Bernstein has a formula, based on thousands of clinical trials, which goes something like this: HbA1C of 5% equals a blood sugar of 5.5 mmol/l. Every 1% over that equates to and additional 2.2 mmol/l. So 6.1% equals about 7.5 mmol/l.
I'm Type 1, so it's proving hard for me to get down to the low 4% range (best so far is 4.6%) without the risk of hypoglycemia getting too great. But as a Type 2 there are fewer risks for you I think, so you could potentially attain 'normal' numbers.

All the best,

fergusc


This is great information. Fergusc ... what do you think of a Type 2 in the "4's" w/o medication. Have you read anything about that? The lowest I've ever been able to get on diet/exercise was 5.5 ... I'll be giving it a more consistent effort again, but am wondering if you've read anything about that.
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 6/23/2007 7:53 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Ruth,

I know that non-diabetics who aren't obese will have HbA1C's in a narrow range between 4.2 and 4.6%. I think it's safe to say any Type 2's in that range are not only at the lowest possible risk of any complications, they're worthy of sainthood. In fact, if any Type 2's are down in that range without medication I think youu could make a strong argument that they effectively weren't Type 2 any longer. Now that's got to be motivation enough!

All the best,

fergusc

4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 6/23/2007 9:16 AM (GMT -7)   
I want to know if they're any out there!!! My thing is trying to figure out when enough is enough, so to speak ... and when meds should be used! Of course I want to keep up the diet/exercise thang, but at what point do I tell my M.D., "NO ... 6.0 is NOT excellent control ... and I WANT IT!"
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise

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