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fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 6/23/2007 5:47 AM (GMT -7)   
OK, so I get my blood test results back and I'm pretty pleased with them. Sugars and lipid numbers are pretty good I think and I feel like a pat on the back for my self-discipline. 4.9% HbA1C, cholesterol 5.1, HDL 3.1, LDL 1.8, triglyceride 0.5 and TC/HDL ratio 1.6.
So, imagine my surprise when I get a letter from my doctor this morning telling me 'your blood sugars are running really too low - about 5-8mmol/l would be better (90-144 mg/dl). Not only that, but 'most diabetics over 40 are advised a statin, so I enclose a prescription for this'.
I'm about to start turning a vivid shade of green just before my chest swells and my shirt buttons ping around the room like embroidered tracer bullets.
I was shocked at first, now I'm Mr Angry. I think we'll have a meeting.
Moral support, please!
 
All the best,
 
fergusc
 
ps you did say 50%, didn't you Jeannie?

4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 6/23/2007 6:04 AM (GMT -7)   
Here, here!!!

Your numbers are what I'd LOVE to have, fergusc!!! *8*? He'd be ok with you as an *8*?!?!? And a scripts as a parting gift? FOR WHAT????

Deep breath. Don't let those beautiful numbers raise on account of him!

Have any of you ever thought of buying your doctor a copy of Dr. Bernsteins's book??? I have.
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 6/23/2007 7:11 AM (GMT -7)   
Question:
Is this guy a GP, internist or an endocrinologist?

You may need a new doc (sigh!) or else start charging him for educating his outdated tiny brain (LOL!)

I personally wouldn't turn my nose up at statins if there is a history of heart stuff in your fam. I discussed this with my doc and I agreed with her and started them. My grandmother as well as my uncle both died of cardiac complications from diabetes.

Good luck with this.
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class! Yours may be one of them...
==================
"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 6/23/2007 7:30 AM (GMT -7)   
Jeannie143 said...
Question:


I personally wouldn't turn my nose up at statins if there is a history of heart stuff in your fam. I discussed this with my doc and I agreed with her and started them. My grandmother as well as my uncle both died of cardiac complications from diabetes.


Hi Jeannie,

Can you explain this to me? If someones numbers were good why would they start statins? Wouldn't one wait until there was indication that the numbers were rising?

Thanks!
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


tangerine bear
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 941
   Posted 6/23/2007 7:47 AM (GMT -7)   

Hi Fergusc,

It sounds like you've done great!  yeah  I think some doctors don't really treat the individual, but only the numbers... this happened to me with a cardiologist several years back. Of course, I trusted him, and took his word for it that we needed to keep increasing the dosage on my statins. He never SHOWED me the test results, until my liver enzymes were so high that he HAD to mention it. At that point, I had his secretary give me copies of ALL my past blood tests and took them to my primary care doc, who totally FREAKED and took me off of the statins. My primary care doc didn't think 12x normal liver readings were good, but the cardio doc's reply to this was "you won't die from liver problems, but you will from cholesterol". Read the last two posts on the link from a past thread and see what happened to me and another person:

http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=20&m=833710

If your cholesterol readings are good, why go on statins? (I'm not sure what your numbers mean, but I assume they are ok). If you DO go on statins, make sure YOU and your doc keep a close eye on your liver enzyme readings. Also, my (ex) cardio doc encouraged me to drink red wine every day for my cholesterol... that's not a good idea on statins.... just thought I would warn you about that if you plan to take the Rx.

Well enough of my soap box... CONGRATS  on your lowered sugar readings and GOOD JOB sticking with it!!!!! yeah

 

Ruth,

I just noticed your post after I hit submit... My two cents.... statins are highly overprescribed. Of course the people here on HW all take control of their own health issues, and are unlikely to let this happen like I did... I don't do THAT anymore! It was really a lesson learned for me, I always ask for copies of my test results now! Talk to your doc about it, but if your cholesterol is in range, I would take something natural. My doc has put me on fish oil capsules... I don't know the results yet, but those can't hurt.

Bear


"It's a jungle out there....." 
Theme song from "Monk" by Randy Newman
 
"Turn this car around... I'm goin' back..."
Tom Petty
 
                       VIEW IMAGE
 

                           

Post Edited (tangerine bear) : 6/23/2007 9:00:13 AM (GMT-6)


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5406
   Posted 6/23/2007 8:03 AM (GMT -7)   
Fergusc, your numbers are great!   yeah   More and more we're seeing that some doctors are clueless about these test results.  Thank goodness that we have forums like this with real people dealing with the same situation that we have and for the Internet that gives us so many other references to educate us.  This gives me more confidence in dealing with my decisions about lifestyle (diet and activity). 
 
Have a great weekend celebrating your test results.  :-)   
Lanie
"pre-diabetic" controlled so far by diet and exercise
following low/no carb diet, no meds


fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 6/23/2007 8:24 AM (GMT -7)   

You're a tower of strength you lot. This guy is my GP which I'm starting to think might stand for gratuitous prescriptions.

Dr B's book would make an ideal gift Ruth, if I thought he might read it or that it might stand a celluloid dog chasing an asbestos cat through hell's chance of getting him to question his crazy beliefs. I also tried to discuss Bernstein's book with the head of our specialist hospital clinic last year but he'd never even heard of it. This is a Professor specialising in diabetes!

A couple of points on the statins though: I thought it was the total cholesterol/HDL ratio that medics used to assess their suitability. Anything over 4.5 made you a candidate for statins but my ratio is 1.6! My GP seems to be saying that because I'm a diabetic over 40 I should be on them anyway, despite no history of heart disease in my family. But the evidence that raised cholesterol raises the risk of coronary heart disease at all is so weak it's almost ridiculous.

So, let's see - my GP wants me to have higher blood sugars, and to take more prescription drugs that I don't need. At least I live in the UK so I don't actually have to pay good money for his advice!

All the best,

fergusc


4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 6/23/2007 9:14 AM (GMT -7)   
LOL!! Follow the money trail, that's what I say!

Cynic that I am ...
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 6/25/2007 8:10 AM (GMT -7)   

fergusc

I'd be doing the happy dance if somebody told me that my BG levels were too low! congrats!

There is a study - I think the DCCT - that seems to be the current Holy Grail for the treatment of diabetes. Doctors are strongly urged to follow its recommendations. It recommends that all type 2's be put on metformin, an ACE inhibitor, and a statin- since we are so prone to heart (statin) and kidney disease (ACE inhibitor). My doctor told me that I needed to be treated as if I already had a heart attack and was a canditate for dialysis.

The retinologist who had just performed a dye scan of my eye told me that I had the circulatory response time of a healthy 15-year old- so I asked (my diabetes doc) her how likely she would be to prescribe the statin for a 15 year old. Of course, she said she wouldn't- so I declined the offer of statins. My blood pressure is already low- and I didn't see the point in taking a drug (that might or might not preserve my kidneys) which is likely to make me pass out. It was bad enough that I had to eat all the time to keep myself from going too low from the sulfonylureas.

I told her I'd be happy to sign a statement explaining that I understood the risk, but I was refusing to take the drugs- until there was good indication that I actually needed them.

sandy


I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


Phishbowl
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 547
   Posted 6/25/2007 5:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi fergusc..... Your doctor must have gone to the same conference as both my doctors :-)

I hate it when doctors just seem to follow rote. Seems the latest wave is coming from the heart folks. Diabetics are in the high-risk category so, the docs are being pushed to get us on those statins quick, even with slightly elevated levels (like I have, too).

I fought against both my GP & Endo about going on statins. I've read all about the house of cards the whole cholesterol theory is built on. Even the major statin studies can only show something like a (possible) 2-5% lessened risk of CHD and that's having taken the statin for at least 5 years! There are no conclusive studies for specifically Type 1 diabetics nor specific to women. These are important points because type 1 and 2's are so vastly different and other studies have shown that men and women can differ drastically where acceptable levels are considered.

I tried the statin (Crestor) and couldn't tolerate it. Now on Ezetrol: a cholesterol med that works in the small intestine as opposed to the liver like a statin. I'm doing well on it and truth be told... my lipid profile has improved.

I'm just thankful that my blood pressure is always normal-low. They're fond of prescribing those meds, too.

Cheers,
-Kris
Cheers,
- Phishbowl (Type 1 since Jan'05 - Levemir, NovoRapid)
"What's Not Measured Is Not Managed"

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"-Epictetus


fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 6/26/2007 10:27 AM (GMT -7)   

Thanks for that, Kris - all very interesting and useful.

I shall be having a heart to heart (sorry, that's such a poor pun!) with my GP tomorrow to see how he can justify such a daft position. I often look forward to these opportunities to talk through the issues with these guys but I'm not so sure my enthusiasm is fully reciprocated. It wouldn't be the first time such a conversation left me feeling that I know at least as much about the issue as those giving the advice. But the growing realisation creeping on their faces is often fun to watch!

All the best,

fergusc  


fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 6/28/2007 6:51 AM (GMT -7)   
Well, I had a face to face with the doctor this morning. I'm sure he means well, but he'd like me to aim for an HbA1C of 6.5% rather than my current 4.9%. Apparently the near certainty of long term complications is a price worth paying for higher blood sugars and less risk of hypoglycemia. I had to explain that higher blood sugars meant higher insulin doses making hypoglycemia more, not less likely. D'oh!
On the statins, all diabetics should be taking them and/or aspirin to lower cardiac risk even if cholesterol levels aren't high, apparently. He uses total cholesterol rather than total cholesterol/HDL ratios as his measure. I tried to explain that if HDL (high density lipoprotein) is protective and LDL (low density lipoprotein) harmful, then total cholesterol levels are pretty meaningless - only the ratio is important. I thought this was pretty well established, but it seemed to come as a surprise to him. According to him, everyone will be taking statins eventually. Not me though, I think it's illogical and pretty unscientific.
A bit of a waste of time then.

All the best

fergusc

4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 6/28/2007 7:04 AM (GMT -7)   
Hmmmmm.

Interesting/frustrating!!! I do take an aspirin every night and will soon be adding Insulow. Hopefully my doctor will stay "at bay" with the statins for a bit longer!
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise

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