Need some advice -

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4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 7/18/2007 11:08 AM (GMT -7)   
I just had a routine visit with my chiropractor who told me I've lost too much weight and can't sustain the Dr. B. way of eating. The trouble is ... if I eat more carbs my numbers go up!

I'm so scared ... any ideas?

Thanks, guys.
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 7/18/2007 11:21 AM (GMT -7)   
Ruth,
Eat more healthy fats. Start munching on peanuts, olives, avocadoes, almonds, walnuts, pistashios, almost any nut will do. I like to put regular salad dressing on my salads for flavor (about a tablespoon of ranch) and then pour on the olive oil for health. Also, mixing nuts and fruit is good... like the old peanutbutter and sliced apples trick.

Add some real icecream to your weekly routine. High fats help counterbalance the sugars in this bonafide allowed treat.(my dietician is a diabetic and she gave us the ok) 1/2 cup won't upset the applecart too bad and makes one feel absolutely evil! I eat mine on a cone so I have portion control. You can only put so much ice cream on a cone... Bowls are easier to overfill.

Start eating dark chocolate once a day. Good for your body and soul.
Add more healthful whole grains like oatmeal. Good for you carb, lowers cholesterol and tastes great, too! I put peanut butter in mine to make it even gooder for me.

Hope this helps.
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class! Yours may be one of them...
==================
"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 7/18/2007 11:37 AM (GMT -7)   
But Jeannie ... if I do this my numbers will rise!! I tried eating oatmeal this summer and it made my 2 hr PP go way above 120!
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5408
   Posted 7/18/2007 1:19 PM (GMT -7)   

Hey Ruth, trying to figure this out logically, it does seem to me that if you ate smaller meals every few hours, you would get your calories and not raise your blood sugar.  Eating smaller meals would not demand your body to deal with a lot of food at one time, so your blood sugar should not spike.  Yet, eating more frequently would also give you more calories depending on what you eat.  You could still follow the diet you're doing from Dr. B but spread out the food and add the snacks, too.  Since you've been keeping your blood sugars in control and you don't want to lose weight, you could also cut back on the exercise if it's been strenuous.  I hope this can help.  :)

Lanie


"pre-diabetic" controlled so far by diet and exercise
following low/no carb diet, no meds


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 7/18/2007 1:52 PM (GMT -7)   
2 hr PP of 120 is really very healthy. My doctor allowed me to go to 180 2 hours PP when I was non medicated. He just advised exercise when it was up there. If oatmeal only gives you a 120 then I'd say eat it! Starving yourself to get good numbers won't help you in the long run and has its own set of problems.

Also, eating the same total amount of food in three meals or six? The six meal plan will cause less weight gain. Don't know why, just know that is the way it works. Can't remember the link to verify, you will just have to take my word for it.
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class! Yours may be one of them...
==================
"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5408
   Posted 7/18/2007 2:04 PM (GMT -7)   

Jeannie, I hope you're not suggesting that a reading of 180 pp is healthy, exercising or not.  And certainly not on a frequent basis.  When I suggested that Ruth eat smaller meals more frequently, it would mean for her to eat more than the total amount of food that she's getting now in one day, so she would take in more calories at the end of the day.  If her meals of "good" food were smaller, she wouldn't have spikes.

Lanie


"pre-diabetic" controlled so far by diet and exercise
following low/no carb diet, no meds


gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 7/18/2007 2:32 PM (GMT -7)   

Ruth,

If you're intent on eating the Bernstein way and limiting yourself to 6/12/12 as he recommends, you have to eat more protein and fat. That means regular cheese, bigger portions of meat etc. Dreamfields pasta has plenty of calories but few net carbs (5), so you might be able to add something like that. And there's always real heavy cream for your soups, desserts, coffee....

FWIW - I just finished the Atkins low carb diabetes plan book and they allow up to 60 net carbs a day. The rest of the plan is virtually identical to Bernstein except that they step you through learning how to tailor your carb intake to your body rather than an across the board carb prescription. You might want to give it a read through-

I'm at 55 (net) right now and I can still go higher- my numbers are stable and in the normal range (80's-low 90's)- as long as I combine the carb with a protein (the link and balance plan that I follow) and fat, I am finding I can eat oatmeal, barley and beans without a spike-nice and allows me a greater range of eats on a daily basis.

Good luck!

sandy


I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 7/18/2007 3:02 PM (GMT -7)   
Ok, Sandy. Tell me how you do this? I've got to gain weight. It is NOT my desire to be anorexia or in fear of food due to diabetes!
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 7/18/2007 6:39 PM (GMT -7)   
Lanie,
I said that 120 PP was healthy, and that my doctor allowed 180 PP when I was not medicated. I didn't say it was healthy, but that it was allowed when I was newly diagnosed.
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class! Yours may be one of them...
==================
"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5408
   Posted 7/19/2007 6:06 AM (GMT -7)   

Ok.  I figured 180 was too high.  So, which part of his class did the doctor graduate in?  :)

Lanie


"pre-diabetic" controlled so far by diet and exercise
following low/no carb diet, no meds


gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 7/19/2007 8:30 AM (GMT -7)   
Ruth,
 
The link and balance system is described in The Insulin Resistance Diet
(The Insulin-Resistance Diet : How to Turn Off Your Body's Fat-Making Machine: Books: Cheryle R. Hart MD,Mary Kay Grossman RD )
 
I don't follow the weight loss plan- but I do link each 15 grams of carb (any carb including the so-called free carbs like broccoli, salad greens, and cauliflower) with 7 grams of protein. So I'd never eat just a salad of greens and veggies- I add 2 egg whites, an ounce of cheese, a veggie dog and a bit of fat (any kind except trans fat).
 
I limit my net carbs to 55 per day (trying out the Atkins plan), but I always link them to a protein. To add more calories (if you're hungry for example), I eat additional protein and fat- so I might have 1 carb, 3 proteins and 1 fat at a meal. The minimum meal would be 1 carb+ 1 protein-or just protein and fat.
 
Yesterday, I made a casserole with Dreamfields pasta, ricotta, eggs, zucchini,low carb marinara sauce, onions, peppers, veggie sausage, and provolone- each portion contained 12 net carbs + 22 grams of protein - the portion was 1/12 of a lasagna pan ( nice and big!)- almost too much (385 calories) - my premeal was 82 (15 minutes after my long bike ride of the day), my 2 hr pp was 94, 3 hour was 92, 4 hour was 89- You can see that I dont spike and fall- I did rise and stay up through 3 hours ( I suspect bec there was a lot of fat in there)- and I eat good :-)    My prebed was 89 and my AM today was 93- so it didn't impact me.
 
I have done this kind of testing for every type of meal I eat, and for all 3 of my meals- I generally dont snack but have milk with my night time metformin. I never see a big spike.  Some of my meals have had as many as 60 net carbs, balanced by 5 proteins- and the result is the same. I go up 10-20 points tops and come down by the 3 hour mark. 
 
It took some tweaking, but I have it down now- I'm used to eating this way and I like it.
sandy
I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 7/19/2007 2:44 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow ... you have GREAT numbers!!
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 7/19/2007 4:17 PM (GMT -7)   
Sandy,
That's how the zone diet works, too. Always linking proteins, fats and carbs at each eating. How are your energy levels with these low sugars? Is everything always smooth sailing or do you run out of steam?
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class! Yours may be one of them...
==================
"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 7/20/2007 8:20 AM (GMT -7)   

Hi Ruth

Ruth thanks for the nice compliment about my numbers- I really eat well now. A lot of good tasty food. When I was first diagnosed, I was afraid to eat just about everything and when I did find something I could eat, I would eat it for weeks at a time (think veggie-barley soup every night for 5 weeks for dinner - my poor husband). I got fed up and tired of the whole business. I was following the diet that the diabetes dietitian gave me to the letter, my numbers were way higher than they should be and not coming down, and I was craving carbs like a fiend.

I wound up at Borders one day while my husband was having his car maintainence visit and I pulled every diabetes eating plan book that they had off the shelf, bought a large coffee and started to scan. I eliminated every one that I didn't think I could follow as a vegetarian. I bought that Insulin-Resistance, Rosedale, and Schwartzbein (sp?). I already had South Beach and the Zone at home.  I tried them all for 1 week in rotation - Insulin-Resistance won for me.

I have been drifting towards low carb for about 6 months now- but I find Bernstein too restrictive for my vegetarian ways, and I am happy with my numbers at the moment. I think the Atkins + link and balance combo is going to be my master plan going forward.

My long winded point (sorry for so many words, really eyes ) is that long term, you have to live life with your diabetes- but you have to have a way to live your life with diabetes. You won't find it though unless you step out and try some new things. I have been so much happier  since I resumed living - going to restaurants, the state fair, parties, weddings, concerts.

The only place that I couldn't find something suitable to eat so far was at Panera bread- but I had a packet of OhYeah bars with me- so I 'ate' 2 side salads, my Oh Yeah bars (candy bars for lunch-yum!) and that wonderful hazlenut coffee that they sell (with full fat whip cream- boy did I get the look when I ordered 2 bitty salads with a side of whipping cream).

I know you'll find the best way for you, Ruth.

sandy


I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 7/20/2007 9:01 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Jeannie,
 
I have tried the zone and it's too carb heavy for me (40-30-30%). I still wind up with cravings. I also find it difficult to follow on the fly, and there isn't enough food bulk to satisfy me mentally. But you are right, Sears does advocate eating the three amigos at every meal.
 
My 60 day food average is just under 1500 calories (30(net)-31-39%). I average 56 grams of fiber a day- so about 86 total grams of carb per day (Lots of fiber rich foods- lentils, konjac,berries, legumes, greens, broccoli) I am currently eating about 55 grams net carb a day under the Atkins diabetes plan + link and balance.
 
I have so much more energy now than when I was eating carb-heavy. I'm sleeping about 6 hours and wake up naturally (just before my alarm clock). I work a 10-12 hour day, ebike for 45 minutes a day + 30 minutes of treadmill walking-most days, I add a short toning (chair) or yoga (chair) session when I need an eye break from the computer (for work- not fun like this :-) ).  My concentration level has increased, but I have attributed that to my sugar dropping from 456 to the low 90s ove rthe last 12 months.
 
I have been baking (for my husband), making different dinners every night (instead of massive meals that last for days in the crockpot on Sundays), freezing berries for the winter, planting 2 new perennial flower beds (digging up the clay soil by hand a little at a time), mulching, refinishing my bird feeders and prepping my walls for painting in my spare time. I used to sit on my very large derriere and watch TV or play POGO most of the time.
 
I have to confess, that when I first started to feel like I just had to get up and get going I was a little afraid that this was a weird complication of diabetes. It had been so long since I had any energy at all, I didn't recognize it.  I was telling my daughter about how I dragged her poor father through 2 malls and the outlet center searching for a replacement for my clay baker when she stopped me mid-sentence and said- "Oh my God, Mom- You haven't shopped like that since we were in graduate school!" (We shared an apartment when she was doing her masters and I was doing my PhD). I wanted to cry. That was about 7 months ago (5 months after my Dx)- shortly after I started to drop my carbs way back.
 
I haven't slowed down yet!
sandy


I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett

Post Edited (gelchick) : 7/20/2007 10:05:57 AM (GMT-6)

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