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Jeannie143
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 9/19/2007 11:17 AM (GMT -7)   
Well, I sort of fell off the wagon at my daughter's baby shower because there was very little to eat that wasn't carb laden and the protein was mixed into cheese dips and such. So I ate something to keep from bottoming out my sugar (had an hour's drive home) and POOF!!! I'M CRAVING CARBS LIKE I NEVER QUIT THEM!!! Only took that little bit and I was ready to eat everything in the house that wasn't nailed down... Took me from Sunday until today to get back on track. Last night's dinner was a big stir fry with every veggie in the freezer and garden and that helped a lot but I have to say...

Better to go hungry than to eat those evil things again! They do something to your brain, your will power, your hunger levels and worst of all... Your blood glucose levels! I found my hand in the cookie jar... I HAVEN'T DONE THAT SINCE APRIL! Honest to Pete! I think I was out of my mind for the last few days.... Good thing I have this place or I'd be lost.
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class! Yours may be one of them...
==================
"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


tutorgirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 235
   Posted 9/19/2007 1:03 PM (GMT -7)   
I know what you mean...just hit mickey d's. BAD, BAD, BAD. Stressful day and the real job hasn't even started and since I'm not testing because of the cortisone shot...blah. It will be salad for dinner tonight which won't be until 9 tonight. Oh, glad to know it's not just me.

Karen

gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 9/19/2007 3:08 PM (GMT -7)   
Out where I live Micky Dee's has a nice slad called Caesar Salad- I get this and add a couple of my own cheese sticks to up the protein. I think they sell it with chicken- but I don't eat meat... they have all kinds of nice dressings too. Traveling as a lower carb, vegetarian, diabetic poses its challenges- but there are options out there if you look for them. 
 
Last trip I was at one of these resort type places with a 'fixed' menu and assigned seats- my waiter didn't want to even ask about accomodating me- so I whipped out my meter and told him I was going to test before and after he poisoned me- so there would be plenty of witnesses when I sued the resort, the chef, and him..... LOL
I had a tete-a-tete with the chef and had the best meals for the rest of the week- after I got real cream for my coffee and oatmeal, some of my table mates asked me to say they were diabetics too-
sandy
I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


4sons
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 406
   Posted 9/19/2007 4:10 PM (GMT -7)   
Ok, Jeannie ... you just kept me from going and eating a cookie. I'm having an emotional day and want comfort food. What I DON'T need is to become readdicted to carbs! So thanks for the warning!
Cheers -

Ruth/4sons

age 52/Type 2 diabetic/"controlled" by diet and exercise


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5393
   Posted 9/19/2007 6:41 PM (GMT -7)   
Sandy, I love that you "threatened" the waiter with your meter!  Imagine the headlines in the newspaper!  My daughter works at an upscale restaurant for extra money now during her last year of college (yes! finally!) and told me that so many of the customers will tell her secretly on the side that they have to "watch their carbs" and beg her to substitute another vegetable for the potatoes or rice.  It's done very frequently and with pleasure from the kitchen, she said, and they're so happy to be accommodated.  And sometimes a little conversation takes place since by daughter likes the new food I'm making and they trade food ideas.  This has been earning her bigger tips!  On a serious note though, I wonder if any studies have been done about carbohydrates and various people's metabolisms.  Maybe metabolism is not the correct word.  I have always loved bread.  We always had Italian bread with dinner.  I could never imagine eating a meal without it.  Bagels, croissants or those huge pretzels could and sometimes were a meal for me.  With butter.  I'm wondering if the love of this food and the craving came first and led to diabetes or was it the other way around?  Diabetes runs on my mother's side.  If there's a genetic marker, does that marker spark a carbohydrate craving?  Or, am I off base here?  Just wondering.  In any case, since cutting out the carbs, I don't crave them as I did before.  If I do get hungry in between meals, I have cheese and nuts readily available or sometimes I eat a couple of slices of cold cuts.  At night after dinner, I might take about 1/4 cup of regular sour cream and put some Splenda and DaVinci's raspberry syrup in it and that satisfies a yen for something sweet.  Having something readily available like that helps.  Just some thoughts. 

Lanie
forum moderator - diabetes
 
"pre-diabetic" controlled so far by diet and exercise
following low/no carb diet, no meds


Pin Cushion
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 442
   Posted 9/19/2007 10:18 PM (GMT -7)   
OK Jeannie put down the cookie jar lid and go stab one in your chicken and no one will get hurt. hee hee
Moderator for the Diabetes forum
 
Sigmoid Colostomy / Crohns / Type 1 Diabetic / Ostioarthritus / Fibromyalgia / Asthma / High Blood Pressure / High Colesterol / Migraines. Ain't life a joy?



* I think it may be time for a colorful metaphor*


gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 9/20/2007 8:25 AM (GMT -7)   
 
Lanie
You write:
At night after dinner, I might take about 1/4 cup of regular sour cream and put some Splenda and DaVinci's raspberry syrup in it and that satisfies a yen for something sweet.  Having something readily available like that helps.  Just some thoughts. 
 
You really should try the Greek Style yogurt if you like that. The 0% fat kind is rich and creamy like sour cream and is loaded with protein. Although I am not anti-fat, I do like the added protein. I use the yogurt in all kinds of ways. I add Walden Farms Marshmallow and Chocolate dips to my yogurt- and shave a square of Lindt chocolate on top. It is so good.
 
I've been thinking about your carb/diabetic craving question. Growing up at my house, we ate potatoes with every meal, and I did the same with my own family. I thought I would die without potatoes when I was first diagnosed. My bg was at 457 and I was eating a potato salad sandwich (yes- you read that right!) and crying because I had been told I was a diabetic-lol.  I have over 200 potato recipes. That said, I don't think I actually crave potatoes so much as I am so used to eating them that someting seems to be missing.
 
I certainly don't 'fall off the wagon' as Jeannie described when I eat carbs. Sure, I miss my spuds and other carbs- but if I deem something to be 'carbworthy', I eat it (just enough that I can't taste it anymore- 2, 3, 4 bites) and be done with it. My daughter sent me a bucket of Sweet Martha chocolate chip cookies from the Minnesota State Fair after I got home from visiting her, because we didn't make it over to the stand to get some when we did the fair. I ate 3 bites of one cookie, trashed the remainder and gave the rest to my husband. Now a year ago, I would have given him 2 cookies and stashed the rest like a squirrel hiding nuts. He ate a couple and we froze the rest. I look at them every day when I get my coffee beans out, but I have no true desire to eat them. So, inmy case, I think the carb thing is habit rather than metabolic drive.
sandy
I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


fergusc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 9/20/2007 8:47 AM (GMT -7)   

Lanie makes a good point about the way in which some of us crave carbohydrates more than others. I agree that there seems to be an inherited trait here. I had a sweet tooth as a kid and it's a helluva tough addiction to break. When I was at University however, I shared a flat with a guy who had never eaten a whole bar of candy in his life! I thought perhaps because he'd never had it, he never craved it. Whenever he tried a taste, he wanted to retch because it tasted so unpleasant to him. Needless to say he also had the most perfect teeth I've ever seen (OK, so I'm British!) and not an ounce of fat anywhere on him. 

I reckon we all have a natural craving for carbs. Anything sweet must have been highly prized by our ancestors, apart from my flatmate, before the agricultural revolution. An instant blood sugar spike and a little body fat stored away for later would have been a great asset in the stone age. So the seratonin rush that carb consumption brings may just be our little biochemical reward for increasing our chances of survival, handed down to us from our ancient ancestors. On top of that, those who really crave the carbs may simply be responding to a learned impulse inherited from their own family's eating habits. My dad had a really sweet tooth (false ones, of course!) but my flatmates father didn't at all.

It surprises me that more research isn't carried out to look at some of these issues.

All the best,

fergusc


gelchick
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 477
   Posted 9/20/2007 9:51 AM (GMT -7)   
fergusc
 
That's it exactly for type 2's - biochemically, carbs burn more easily than protein or fats-but the body can make use of each pathway, so that shouldn't be the main contributor unless one or more pathways are totally broken.
 
There are  4 major receptors for taste on our tongues- sweet, salt, bitter, sour. I used to do a little genetics experiment when I was a high school teacher- I gave the kids a PTC paper to chew up (it's bitter- like aspirin) - most of them would gag and go running for the water fountains- but some of them (non-tasters) would chew that paper like bubble gum and look at their classmates like they were nuts- when I sent the papers home the non- tasters all had parents who were non- tasters too. We would also do tongue mapping of receptors- where kids would paint different liquids (sweet, salt, bitter, sour) on the tongues of their lab partner- and map out the locations of the different receptors.  Some kids appeared to have larger numbers of receptors for certain tastes than others. Maybe your roomie inherited an abnormal amount or type of sweet receptors.
 
Evolutionary biologists contend that the pattern and number of individual receptors in a given population correlate to the environmental conditions present- so a population that lived in a desert area for example would have a greater number of sweet receptors for that rare time when fruit was available. It's not easy to prove contentions like that- so I generally don't give those sorts of hypotheses much weight. But who knows?
 
It's only recently that 'Americanized' diets have proliferated, but wherever they go, obesity and diabetes follows. High processed carb consumption, high sat/trans fat consumption and decreased levels of activity seem to be the major contributors to me. One of my fellow grad students was from India- he gained 30 pounds and had elevated BP, BG and lipids within a year of arriving. His wife had a baby and his mother came from India for 6 months to help them out. She cooked only traditional foods for them- he lost 40 pounds, all of his numbers dropped back to normal - he was far more pleasant too. The diet was hugely carb, high in fat, and mostly vegetarian- but nothing processed.
 
I think that, anecdotally at least, both genetics and environment combine to contribute to our health woes- but it's hard to quantitate because people are not genetically identical Sprague-Dawley lab rats!
sandy
I just want to live happily ever after-every now and then. Jimmy Buffett


tutorgirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 235
   Posted 9/20/2007 12:22 PM (GMT -7)   
Man, I love this forum. I continue to learn things everyday. I have never had a talent for science, but love learning about these types of things.

From working with kids for over 30 years and watching the growing issues of obesity and alarming numbers of children diagnosed with ADHD and ADD, I am of the firm opinion that our growing dependence on fast foods and processed convenience foods is largely to blame. In the early 80's when I was working in a 2nd grade classroom there was only one child diagnosed ADHD. Now there are usually at least 4 or 5. I do private tutoring and out of 11 students that I work with I have 4 with these issues. And I think the other culprit is video games. Kids just do not move like they did when my children were young. And I think these problems will continue to grow until we return to a more natural way of living.

This is all just observational on my part, but it still scares me!

Karen

LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5393
   Posted 9/20/2007 1:38 PM (GMT -7)   

Lots of food for thought here.   Hmm.  Thank goodness we never had processed food while we were growing up and the only food of that type I buy today is that cheese for the cheese puffs.  Looking at the ingredients on the food packages can be scary.  Good grief.  Karen, I also blame video games and computer games along with the hundreds of TV channels now available that kids are glued to instead of running around outside in the yard or riding bikes.  Too much inactivity, too much electronic zapping, too much monitor gazing and no wonder the kids can't pay attention in school.  Sandy, thanks for the yogurt idea.  I've stopped drinking milk so that's great for calcium! 

yeah
Lanie
forum moderator - diabetes
 
"pre-diabetic" controlled so far by diet and exercise
following low/no carb diet, no meds


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 9/20/2007 5:47 PM (GMT -7)   
LOL AL! I REALLY needed that! Ok, here's the weird thing... Went swimming yesterday to get my mind back on track and help my sugars and fibro... weighed myself... I've lost about six more pounds for a total loss of 37 pounds lost. Looks like that three day insanity didn't hurt me too bad in the long run... Go figure?

Lanie, the bread craving thing is highest among peoples of northern European decent whose ancestors made it thru the ice ages by eating stored grains during the long winters. Eating carbs raises seratonin levels giving a feeling of 'everything is gonna be ok', as well as enhancing sleep patterns. The increased sleep patterns lead to a kind of semi-hibernation thru the long winters which conserved energy until the next summer's hunting season.

One school of thought is that diabetes is an anti-famine device that allowed those with stored grain as well as stored body fat to survive in times of low food supply. The increased fat storage signals the body to store even more fat because there must be a surplus right now so "Let's get busy storing it up for the next famine!" Diabetes and tooth decay didn't show up in human ramains until agriculture became a way of life. Up until that time the naturlally low carb diet of people kept blood sugars normal. Once peeps became dependent upon grains for energy and the population of the world skyrocketed, famines would wipe out a lot of the people with regular sugar handling metabolisms and the 'diabetics' made it thru to repopulate the planet. So if we have a famine anytime soon I'm all set!
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class! Yours may be one of them...
==================
"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5393
   Posted 9/20/2007 6:32 PM (GMT -7)   
Hmm, Jeannie, now you've got me thinking.  We've only been able to trace our family on both sides back to the early 1700's but to northern Italy, not northern Europe.  (Not one blond amongst us.)  So, I guess those Neanderthals forced their bread on us and that's why I've always eaten it.  Actually, since giving up the carbs, that is: the obvious carbs, I don't crave bread, but I know absolutely that I could go back to eating it tomorrow in a heartbeat.  I won't though.  The monitor is what keeps me on track.  Maybe monitors should be issued to everyone so they know if they're at risk. 
Lanie
forum moderator - diabetes
 
"pre-diabetic" controlled so far by diet and exercise
following low/no carb diet, no meds


tutorgirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 235
   Posted 9/20/2007 7:54 PM (GMT -7)   
OK, so explain the french fry, potato chip craving.

Karen

Pin Cushion
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 442
   Posted 9/20/2007 8:29 PM (GMT -7)   
Karen,
3 words
McDonnals
Lays
Advertising.
The one eyed monster we all love and hate more then our cars, Television
Moderator for the Diabetes forum
 
Sigmoid Colostomy / Crohns / Type 1 Diabetic / Ostioarthritus / Fibromyalgia / Asthma / High Blood Pressure / High Colesterol / Migraines. Ain't life a joy?



* I think it may be time for a colorful metaphor*


LanieG
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5393
   Posted 9/21/2007 5:11 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Karen, there's got to be something metabolic about why salty chips and fries are addictive.  The ads are right because we can't eat just one.  These aren't sweet but they're carbs and salty.  And I think even people who don't have a sweet tooth like chips and fries.  So, a study to see if there's a connection between love of this food as well as the sweet carbs and diabetes might be interesting.  People don't seem to crave other food, only sweet and salty.  I've never craved bland food.  We should all take Sandy's tongue mapping experiment!


Lanie
forum moderator - diabetes
 
"pre-diabetic" controlled so far by diet and exercise
following low/no carb diet, no meds

Post Edited (lanieg) : 9/21/2007 7:10:06 AM (GMT-6)


Jeannie143
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 9/21/2007 6:53 AM (GMT -7)   
If you look at human history, salt was more prized than gold (it's where the word salary comes from... Roman soldiers were paid in salt). Humans need salt to survive. Sugar is our most primal taste. Human breast milk is very sweet and also very fat laden. That first food that is most satisfying sets us up for the fat/sweet thing. As for the fat, our bodies need fat to absorb the fat soluable vitamins. You have to have fat in the intestines to get A, D, E and K into the bloodstream. It's logical that we would crave some animal fat or vegetables that have fat to facilitate that vitamin absorption.... Oh, and then there is the 'bet ya can't eat just one' factor... tongue I think potato chips and fries are the ultimate evil carbs that I love. Mmmmm they got it goin' on... Fat, Carb and salt!
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
~Please remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class! Yours may be one of them...
==================
"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."
- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


tangerine bear
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 941
   Posted 10/6/2007 8:19 AM (GMT -7)   
Before my diagnosis, I was a sweet ADDICT! A birthday cake in the house wasn't safe with me around! tongue I still have that sweet craving sometimes, but a half an apple or a half of my South Beach Diet snack bar is just as good to me now as cake/cookies used to be. I don't really miss potatoes as much as I would have thought either... I really think I could go for the rest of my life without them and not complain. I really think that there aren't many treats that are good enough to have my numbers go out of control! nono
 
(((Hugs to all))),
 
Bear


"It's a jungle out there....." 
Theme song from "Monk" by Randy Newman
 
OCD: Obsessive...Compulsive...Diabetic
 
                       VIEW IMAGE
 

                           


tutorgirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 235
   Posted 10/6/2007 10:16 AM (GMT -7)   
I'm with you, Bear. Ever since I started eating this way, I can't stand the thought of what one sweet treat will do to my own "sugar." Since I started this in August, I have had 1 cookie, a teeny tiny sliver of cake and when my husband gets dessert somewhere I will take a small bite just to satisfy my taste buds. I never was a sweet-aholic, That's my husband's domain. I'm a salty greasy kinds gal...chips, fries, mozzarella sticks... anything breaded and deep fried. I used to tell my husband that I would probably eat rubber tires if they were breaded and deep fried. :) Luckily, I found a substitute that I can have when the craving gets too much. Sliced zucchini dipped in egg, then in grated parmesan cheese, and then fried in canola oil. Yummmm. I do those when I just can't stand it any longer. My husband loves them too and we both agree they are addicting. But it works for me and doesn't sabotage my blood sugar.
===================
>Karen<
~Forum Moderator/Diabetes~


tangerine bear
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 941
   Posted 10/6/2007 4:40 PM (GMT -7)   

Karen,

mmmmmmm.... that sounds so good! Yum! I will have to try that! Do you use regular store bought type parmesan like Kraft, or do you have to get the fresh grated type?

Bear tongue


"It's a jungle out there....." 
Theme song from "Monk" by Randy Newman
 
OCD: Obsessive...Compulsive...Diabetic
 
                       VIEW IMAGE
 

                           


tutorgirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 235
   Posted 10/6/2007 7:26 PM (GMT -7)   
Bear, for this you can use the stuff in the green can. Some one else on here said they saw a it done with small pieces of broccoli and cauliflower, and as per Lanie, I've done it with boneless, skinless chicken breasts (pounded a little thinner) and thighs. We've also made them into chicken nuggets. Satisfies a lot of different cravings. ;)
===================
>Karen<
~Forum Moderator/Diabetes~

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