Mycoplasmas? A possible causative agent for fibro...?!?!? Antibiotics for fibro?

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Jeannie143
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   Posted 9/6/2008 10:21 AM (GMT -7)   
Another forum member, toryboy1969, brought up some information about research being done by Garth Nicholson, PhD. on the subject of fibromyalgia and mycoplasma infections. I did some quick internet research on what's published medically out there and it blew my mind! If this information proves out for fibro, as well as some of the other mystery illnesses and disorders, some of us may get some relief in the next few years. Read on:

From the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, Mycoplasmal Infections in Chronic Illnesses

Mycoplasmas are a form of bacteria, almost as small as viruses, that migrate into the white blood cells and may remain there for the rest of our lives. There may be antibiotic therapies that could address the infection but this is all in the beginning stages and much more research is needed to be done. Because these little bitty bugs are inside the white blood cells, they don't go looking for them to kill them. This could get interesting.
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. ~Mother Teresa

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

Post Edited (Jeannie143) : 10/29/2008 10:24:16 AM (GMT-6)


Kythe
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   Posted 9/6/2008 12:59 PM (GMT -7)   
Well very interesting info, but at least in my case, I highly doubt bacteria is a problem. Anytime I have an infection, I take a natural antibiotic that is strong enough to kill anthrax, so if those little buggers were in my system, I'm sure they'd have been wiped out with the other bacteria I was trying to kill.
~Kythe
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Allergies, Asthma, Anxiety, Depression, IBS, PCOS, Fibromyalgia


tyno3
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   Posted 9/6/2008 1:16 PM (GMT -7)   
Maybe then somebody will believe me when I say " Ï really hurt, all over
". Now that would be a blessing. I'm on my 6th day of agony b/c my doc gives me three weeks worth of meds to go 3o days. So every month I spend a week in He--.I am right now, and being in pain is enough already but we moved today. Also, my non helpful, incredibly hostile sister is running all over town looking for my Dad, who has Alzheimers, and for whom I am the solitary caregiver, b/c my brother has a career in NY, and my sis normally resides in Victoria, B.C. Please, please tell me how to make the pain stop. I've taken 3 tylenol 1's every 4 hours but they do nothing. I've taken 25 mgs. of amyltriptilene in AM and another 25. just now. I have rubbed linament from head to toe. I am lying on a heating pad with a memory foam pad underneath me. I still have to get through tomorrow and most of the following day before I can get more medicine. If you log onto the Chronic Fatique forum, you will see quite a bit about the Epstein-Barr virus. I had this in my early teens. My mother had it in her twenties, and she is now in a wheelchair dx.d MS. It would not surprize me one bit about this being a bacterial or viral consequence. Also, I'd be interested in whether anyone else had the "Swine Flu"vacine they were eagerly handing out when I was in college. I agreed to take it, and did. Then, later, it was revealed it was a hoax. But what did they inject me with? Anybody else out there with similar experiences? 

Enochroot
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   Posted 9/6/2008 1:29 PM (GMT -7)   
There are very specific ABX for Mycoplasmic infections
like minocycline

http://www.shasta.com/cybermom/asimple.htm
An interesting read on the topic
What is the "natural " one you take?

Marlee2
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Date Joined Aug 2007
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   Posted 9/6/2008 1:32 PM (GMT -7)   
Very interesting. I will be printing it out to take to new rheumy when I get referral. The one thing I found missing was MPS.
 
I do not have the medical training you do Jeannie but if I understood right something like pneumonia could be the cause??? I have had pneumonia several times in my life.
 
So this could be why they say 50% of our children could get fibro???
 
It doesn't explain why more women than men get fibro and CFS.
 
This is why I keep saying on here that I will never give up hope of them finding a cure.
 
luv and hugs
Marlee
Forum Moderator Fibromyalgia
 
Fibro,Sjogrens, Anxiety, Gastroparesis, IBS, Gastritis, Allergies, High Blood Pressure, Low Blood Sodium and Osteoarthritis
 
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Enochroot
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Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40
   Posted 9/6/2008 1:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Tyno - the only stuff that helps my pain (constant, every day)
is Tylenol 3 (Percocet) and to a lesser degree Ultracet -
which is a more lightweight med, but easier to get your doc to
prescribe in the USA as it is not on the classified list like
Percocet Vicodin etc.

I believe my misery was caused by the Hep B vaccine series.
Since my life went to hell about a month after the final
booster.

Kythe
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 261
   Posted 9/6/2008 1:36 PM (GMT -7)   
I take wild Mediterranean oregano oil. It's really an all purpose herb. It's an antibiotic, antiviral, anti-fungal, anti-parasitic, anti-inflammatory, and antioxidant.

I also know of another one called larrea tridentata which from what I can remember does everything the oregano oil does but possibly it's stronger. Or at least I'm assuming it's stronger, it'd have to be better in some way considering the stuff is like $50 a bottle which is why I haven't tried this one.

There may be specific antibiotics for certain bacteria with prescription drugs, but the natural compounds in the oregano oil are so complex that they seem to work for all bacteria from what I've read. Oregano oil can also tell the difference between good and bad bacteria which is why I don't get digestive problems when taking it.
~Kythe
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Allergies, Asthma, Anxiety, Depression, IBS, PCOS, Fibromyalgia


tyno3
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Date Joined May 2008
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   Posted 9/7/2008 5:59 AM (GMT -7)   
Just wanted to log in and say hi. I still hurt all over but I feel like I'm running a ten day marathon. I personally believe more women than men get Fibro and CFS, etc. is b/c we are exposed to foreign DNA consistently/ shakehead

Kythe
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Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 261
   Posted 9/7/2008 6:08 AM (GMT -7)   
What are you talking about? How are we being exposed to foreign DNA consistantly?
~Kythe
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tyno3
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   Posted 9/7/2008 2:02 PM (GMT -7)   
Well, this comes down to the birds and the bees. Males deposit sperm in women's bodies. Sometimes it sucessfully unites with the female egg and a whole new set of DNA sprouts. For example, I am type A blood. My husband was Type B. Both my boys are type AB. So through-out both pregnancies, my body experienced assault by foreign DNA. Even if the sperm donation doesn't result
in a pregnancy, it is still foreign tissue. Everybody of all sexual orientations constantly expose themselves to an onslaught of foreign tissue, a nine month pregnancy, is a lot of exposure. I could be exaggerating, or out to sea, but it's possible.

Kythe
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Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 261
   Posted 9/7/2008 2:14 PM (GMT -7)   
I see. Well I highly doubt that has anything to do with fibromyalgia. As embarrassing as it is to say, I've barely had any experience in that area and certainly not at all for quite a few years. Also I'm pretty sure the fibro started with me long before I first had any sexual experience. So obviously this isn't a factor for me, and I'm hearing about more and more young women who are getting diagnosed with fibro and chances are they haven't had much experience in that area if any at all.
~Kythe
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Allergies, Asthma, Anxiety, Depression, IBS, PCOS, Fibromyalgia


Dagger
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Date Joined Apr 2008
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   Posted 9/7/2008 5:27 PM (GMT -7)   
There are some theories that mycoplasmas can be transmitted by ticks and mosquitoes like Lyme Disease. The mycoplasmas are very hard to kill and hide well so the oregano oil and many routine antibiotics may not be able to get them. Even with the powerful prescription antibiotics known to kill them, it takes many months and repeated treatments to kill them.

The research is exciting and hopefully something useful will come from it. I believe that our illnesses are all unique and have many different causes. What works for some doesn't work for others.

Jeannie143
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 9/7/2008 5:44 PM (GMT -7)   
GETTING BACK TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND...Yes Dagger, that's what I saw in my reading, too. Months and months of antibiotics before satisfactory results were achieved.

Marlee,
There actually is a specific mycoplasma for pneumonia which could weaken your system for the next little mycoplasma to make its entrance. Remember when I supposed it might be a stealth virus? Looks like it might be a sneaky little bacteria that may be the root of all our problems... Wouldn't it be awesome if research shows that we might get over this stuff with long programs of antibiotics?!?!?!? (for those of us who aren't allergic, I mean.)

Also, these buggers are airborne spread, and not everyone who is exposed is triggered to come down with an ailment. This may explain the spread of the disease in families where some, but not all members get ill. Some people's immune systems are stronger than others or they are genetically designed to repel some illnesses. My husband is almost never ill, same with my son. Our youngest daughter has crohne's, fibro, RA, allergies, contact dermatitis to most everything and heaven knows what else.

I found something about the man/woman ratio a while back and posted it, but I can't find it. I had stumbled upon it in the first place so I'll have to do a better search when I get time.
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. ~Mother Teresa

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

Post Edited (Jeannie143) : 9/7/2008 6:52:30 PM (GMT-6)


Kythe
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Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 261
   Posted 9/7/2008 5:50 PM (GMT -7)   
Hmmm months and months of prescription antibiotics doesn't sound safe at all. Prolonged antibiotic use will weaken your immune system because they wear away the lining of the small intestine which is where a good portion of the immune system is located.

Well everyone else can do what they want, but if it turns out that I've got these little buggers in me, I'm sticking to natural medicine.
~Kythe
____________



Allergies, Asthma, Anxiety, Depression, IBS, PCOS, Fibromyalgia


Jeannie143
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 9/7/2008 5:57 PM (GMT -7)   
Kythe,
I'm not sure where you are getting your information but I'd be interested in your sources. Antibiotics do not wear away the lining of the intestines and your immune system is mostly located in the lymph nodes. Where do you get your medical information? (Please don't say a health food store.)
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. ~Mother Teresa

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


Kythe
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 261
   Posted 9/7/2008 6:04 PM (GMT -7)   
No it certainly wasn't a health food store. I couldn't tell you exactly where I heard this, I just know that I've heard it from different sources over the years. I'll see if I can do some digging to see if I can find any articles about it online because for the life of me I really can't remember who told me about this or where I've read it before.

Edit: Ok seems like we were both right about the immune system. It seems like there is a lot of lymphoid tissue in the digestive track and the digestive track makes up 70% of the immune system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gut-associated_lymphoid_tissue

Now will see if I can find something about the effects of antibiotics on the intestines.

2nd Edit:
According to this article it seems that the antibiotics don't directly damage the lining of the intestines like I had thought, but the damage happens indirectly. This article mentions how the lining of the intestines can get damaged due to the destruction of the good bacteria. http://wehelpwhathurts.homestead.com/leakygut.html

This article also talks about the destruction of good bacteria as well as how the immune system can be damaged due to antibiotics. It even suggests that a cause of chronic fatigue syndrome could could be due to repeated antibiotic use.
http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/antibiotics.htm
~Kythe
____________



Allergies, Asthma, Anxiety, Depression, IBS, PCOS, Fibromyalgia

Post Edited (Kythe) : 9/7/2008 7:25:46 PM (GMT-6)


Marlee2
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Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 6067
   Posted 9/8/2008 8:36 AM (GMT -7)   
I read other articles about this over the weekend and it is kinda scary cause if this is the case we could be spreading this to family members. I thought about all my grandbabies I have shared food with all these years and all the kisses.
 
What I have found interesting in my case is so many of the things I have wrong with me started in a short time span.
 
I read one paper, can't remember who wrote it, that only 50% of the people with these disorders tested positive.
 
At least we know there are people out there working on finding the cause.
 
Hey, I'll be a lab rat if they want to test my blood for creepy things in my white blood cells. skull
 
luv and hugs
Marlee
Forum Moderator Fibromyalgia
 
Fibro,Sjogrens, Anxiety, Gastroparesis, IBS, Gastritis, Allergies, High Blood Pressure, Low Blood Sodium and Osteoarthritis
 
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Jeannie143
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Date Joined Apr 2004
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   Posted 9/8/2008 8:59 AM (GMT -7)   
Marlee,
In most of what I read it appears that these bugs are out there and only those of us with weakened immune systems fall prey. This might explain why fibro shows up after a car accident or severe illness, when our defenses are at their low points. This also got me thinking about how long I have had symptoms of fibro.

When I was little I was very sick for a long time with something that kept me in bed because I was in so much pain. I remember that there was talk of putting me in the hospital but my mom was a nurse and the doctor believed she could give me better care at home. All I could keep down was beef tea, rice and liquid jello to drink. Eventually I progressed to cold, solid jello. To this day I cannot tolerate jello... HATE the stuff! But if this is when the little beasties arrived this would explain why my five brothers and sisters do not have this problem because they never got sick with whatever it was I had... Oh, well. Can't fix it now.
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. ~Mother Teresa

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


Marlee2
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Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 6067
   Posted 9/8/2008 9:28 AM (GMT -7)   
In 1994 I had surgery for diverticulitis, almost waited too late the thing was leaking, it took a long time to recover from that. They removed a foot of colon. In the late 90s I had surgery for GERD. A few pneumonias from asperating from GERD before the surgery. All the stress I went through. I'd say my system was pretty down and open to anything.
 
luv and hugs
Marlee
Forum Moderator Fibromyalgia
 
Fibro,Sjogrens, Anxiety, Gastroparesis, IBS, Gastritis, Allergies, High Blood Pressure, Low Blood Sodium and Osteoarthritis
 
Amitriptyline, Celexa, Xanax, Synthroid, Zyrtec, Micardis, Spironalactone, Tylenol, Reglan, Lidoderm Patches and Tramadol
 
Co Q 10, Super B Complex, Extra B12, Multi vitamin


map lady
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Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 154
   Posted 9/8/2008 9:53 AM (GMT -7)   
Eh, while the mycoplasma infection idea sounds pretty believable, the CDC and NIH tests have not found the "50% infection rate" and so on that these other studies have reported.
 
 
So that's 0% infection in healthy and non-healthy (chronic fatigue) persons from the CDC; 4.8% infected healthy persons and 5.2% infected unhealthy (gulf war illness) persons in the NIH study.  The NIH study has a typo and says 48% infection in healthy persons, but if you do 34 divided by 718 it is 0.04735 (4.7%) which they apparently rounded up one decimal point.
 
I trust the CDC testing and NIH testing results more than any random "research group".  Normally I would go through the effort to verify the sources that they listed and see if it's a legitimately conducted research study, but I'm too tired today.
 
Beware the duo of Don Scott and William Scott and their "consumer health organization" website, they lay out a bunch of scary-sounding information about mycoplasmas and military experiments poisoning everyone and try to get you to buy their books.  They scared a couple people on the Crohn's forum here a couple months back, and fortunately nobody was tricked into buying the books.

tyno3
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Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 1081
   Posted 9/8/2008 6:31 PM (GMT -7)   
Dear folk: I  had constant upper respiratory infections, strep throat, mostly, some ear infections and would estimate I was given antibiotics for about 60% of the time from about age 6 through 16. Then I developed mononeucolosis. That laid me really low for about 6 months. Talking about antibiotics, it seemed they had to keep increasing the dosage and switching the type of antibiotics around. Sometime, when I was about 19 yrs. old, I developed an infection that raised my body temperature to almost 105 and they had a hard time getting it down. that was following a series of penicillin (two mighty doses) at one time. They sent me to an internest who thought perhaps toxic shock syndrome. It seems I have been sick most of my life. That's gotta be immune system issues, right? The fibro came around the time my immune system mistook my thyroid for foreign material and attacked it, wiping it out. I wasn't aware of what was happening but my face swelled up really badly and I broke out in hugh welts all over my body. Really weird. Following that was when I was diagnosed with fibro, low thyroid, anemis, endrometriosis, fibroids, and so on. Then as I began to get all this sorted out I was run over by a truck. The fibro took up residence in those soft tissue areas, and lives there still, very well, to this day. I am happy to report though that the absence of medicine to help with the pain has been resolved, today, my body feels better. Stresswise, however, well, that's a fish of an entirely different species, and a different forum. Thank-you all for being there, and for bearing with my ramblings. wink

luvmyboxer
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 155
   Posted 9/8/2008 8:31 PM (GMT -7)   

Since far more woman than men are affected I personally feel (and I am not very scientific)....that it has something to do with hormones, estrogen to be exact.

Men of course have estrogen too.....again I am not really scientific but it's my train of thought for the moment!

At this point I don't care what it is or what causes it. I just want it to go away.


Susi
 
The more time I spend with people, the more I like my dog.
 
 


Jeannie143
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 9/10/2008 12:01 PM (GMT -7)   
Maplady,
That links you posted are from 2000 & 2003 and the rest of the stuff I'm reading is from 2007 & 2008. Also, the link I posted includes writers who are MD's as well as PhD's.

Both the NIH and CDC are part of the federal government and I question their "unbiased" opinions on anything concerning what affects the veterans. I'm not trying to paint a conspiracy theory picture here, just want to keep an open mind. Sometimes it's in the bureaucracy's best interest to not search so hard for "bad" findings, you know?
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. ~Mother Teresa

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


tyno3
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Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 1081
   Posted 9/10/2008 4:06 PM (GMT -7)   
Here I am again. This is a very interesting thread. I am interested in finding out as much as possible about causation, and therefore be better prepared, possibly, to avoid things that trigger outbreaks (flare-ups). For example, I was living in a house that was damp and moldy (black mold) big time up until Sept. 6. Now I'm in this wonderful rental home, only 5 years old, built to present day codes. I've only been here four days and feel sooooo much better. So, thanks again. 

Jeannie143
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6056
   Posted 10/29/2008 9:26 AM (GMT -7)   
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