Magnesium can be absorbed thru our skin!

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Jeannie143
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   Posted 11/29/2008 12:59 AM (GMT -6)   
One of the gentlemen in the diabetes forum posted some info about dry skin and diabetes and some treatments and one of the most interesting was about using epsom salts in your bathwater for softening your skin. The article he got his info from explains that magnesium is able to be absorbed right through our skin! How cool for those of you who can't tolerate the GIANT Malic Acid pills! Here's the basic info (it was directed at moms with babies whose skin is dry.)

"Low levels of magnesium may contribute to dry skin as well. Bathing your baby with Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) or Dead Sea salts is a safe way to reduce inflammation and supplement with magnesium (which is well-absorbed through the skin) at the same time. ... Be sure to use a good, fragrance-free baby oil after the bath to hold moisture in the skin."

Hope this helps someone.
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. ~Mother Teresa

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


Chutz
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   Posted 11/29/2008 1:54 AM (GMT -6)   
That's great info Jeannie. That was my objection to those horse pills. Even cutting them into 3rd's I still gag. I can take a handful of others meds all at the same time, but just one of those huge pills gets stuck....even the chunks. Wonder what sort of dose you'd be getting that way? Probably no way to tell nor gauge how long you 'must" lounge in a warm tub..lol

Chutzie
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Fibromyalgia, Ulcerative Colitis, Insulin dependent diabetic, collapsed disk, dermatitis herpetiformus, osteo arthritis in spine and other locations.
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Marlee2
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   Posted 11/29/2008 10:29 AM (GMT -6)   
That still isn't getting the malic acid in you is it??? That is the one I have problems taking cause it irratates my stomach. But it is a good idea for dry skin which I have a problem with.
 
Thanks for the info Jeannie.
 
luv and hugs
Marlee
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Jeannie143
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   Posted 11/29/2008 10:43 AM (GMT -6)   
Marlee,
I think the magnesium is necessary for the production of malic acic so it's a way to add magnesium without the accompanying diarrhea. Hey, any port in a storm!
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. ~Mother Teresa

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


Sherrine
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   Posted 11/29/2008 11:41 AM (GMT -6)   
Hey, this is great news for those with sensitive stomachs!  It's worth a try!  I know this really helps with fatigue, Marlee.
 
Sherrine
Forum Moderator/ Fibromyalgia
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Fibromyalgia, Crohn's Disease, Ostomy, Diabetes, Autoimmune Inner Ear Disease, Osteoporosis
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God does not give us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.    2 Timothy 1:7


lucysgd
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   Posted 11/29/2008 11:56 AM (GMT -6)   
The only thing you have to remember about this is the "salt" part.  I wonder if it could affect salt sensitive people with elev. BP?  At least in terms of doing it frequently.  Also I think it's especially important to be sure to rehydrate after soaking in an epsom salt bath.  I have heard that this does indeed help with achey muscles.
diagnoses:  mono 1972; postviral CFS 1997; fibro 1998; CEBV 2005; UCTD (dx limbo) 2007
meds:  occasional low dose xanax for sleep, artificial tears w/ ointment at night, ibuprophin (none of which manages the problems very well!)
 
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SleepyBug
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   Posted 11/29/2008 11:59 AM (GMT -6)   
that is so funny (in a weird way, not a haha way) i was just about to ask you all about epsom salts in the bath and what, if any, benefits there are from using them! i love my hot baths, but do get terribly dry skin in the winter. i will definitely be trying the salts and the baby oil. thank you so much for the tip!

also, if you are able to absorb magnesium through the skin this way, does that mean you don't have to take it in pill form? (i am just starting to research out vitamins and minerals as fibro therapy, so am not sure what to take, how much,etc.)

Ginny
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   Posted 11/29/2008 12:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Who'd a thunk it eh?  I think this is great.  Thanks for sharing!
I can do anything through Jesus Christ who strengthens me. I have learned in whatever state I am in,to be content. Phillipians 4:11-13

34 years old. Diagnosed with Lupus in 2000. Fibromyalgia, Anti-phospholipid syndrome(APS)(stroke, 2002), Sjogren's, Raynaud's, Libman Sach's Endocarditis, vasculitis, sacroiliitis, arthritis (neck), anxiety. Prednisone, Imuran, Coumadin, Clobazam, Amitriptyline, Didrocal, Cozaar, Zoloft, Neurontin, calcium, multi-vitamin, vitamin D, Magnesium, vitamin B6, Acidophilus


Carnissa
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   Posted 11/29/2008 4:56 PM (GMT -6)   
well usually its one cup of epsom salts to a bath of water... so i can't see it being any significant amount... if you search google under epsom salts you should get info needed
Diagnosed - fibromyalgia 2001
Meds effexor xr 300mg/day amitryptilene 10mg/day
 
 


Grailhunter
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Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 159
   Posted 11/29/2008 5:03 PM (GMT -6)   
What I read on it was tested on Athletes using daily hydrotherapy to see if Magnesium levels could be brought up quickly. It did show that this method would restore low magnesium levels in a matter of weeks with daily soaking of 15 minutes. That didn't surprise me to much as I was in the commercial swimming pool and spa business for allot of years and learned that in one half hour of water submersion, you will pickup about a quart of whatever your soaking in, and consequently, whatever is in that quart of water.

The downside and part upside of Epson Salts is that it is Magnesium Sulphate and your liver processes sulphate out very quickly. It processes sulphate out quickly because your liver views it as a toxin, and it also uses sulphate as part of the stage two toxin conversion that processes some toxins to your kidneys for elimnation. The stage two liver conversion is where it changes the chemical structure on many toxins, drugs, and other chemicals being the big ones, and moves it to the kidneys.

If your stage one conversion is working well on the liver, there is no problem. The extra sulphate in your body is a plus to get the other chemicals from building up in your body. If it is not working well, the liver will stay in stage one until it can clear itself before it moves to stage two and uses and gets rid of the excess sulphate. How do you know if your liver is completing its stage one cycle? If your waking up every morning, or almost every morning around 3 to 4 a.m. your liver is struggling to complete stage one and is continuing to cycle in this phase. 3 to 4 a.m. is when the liver does this part of its processing and if it can't complete the cycle, will move excess chemicals, including stress chemicals back into the bloodstream. Excess cortisol being shot back to the bloodstream is whats waking you up. So if your sleeping through those early morning hours your liver is handling the excess and moving to stage two. If your waking up consistently in the early morning hours, the liver is continueing to cycle in stage one and you will get a sulphate buildup if you bath in epson salts daily. In that event, bathing in Epson salts should be limited to every 2 or 3 days, not daily.

You can also preaty easily tell if your getting to much Magnesium Sulphate buildup because when your magnesium levels are low, you ache more and are tired. As the magnesium levels improve you ache less and have more energy. When the magnesium levels get to high, your still not acheing as much, but now instead of getting more energy, it makes you feel constantly tired. Using straight magnesium citrate tablets, which are well absorbed and have the least impact on causing diarhea would probably take months to get your tissue magnesium levels up depending on where your starting out at, and would probably take over six months to a year, if ever, before magnesium levels got high enough to produce a tiring effect.

So what is the bottom line on all this gibberish. Epson salt bathing has a high absorbtion rate. It also has a quick elimination rate because its being processed out as a toxin and as a chemical to convert other toxins. It is still capable of raising magnesium levels to normal in a matter of weeks of daily soaking in it, versus months of ingesting other forms. It is perfectly fine to do daily if your liver is processing well, but can cause a toxic overload of sulphate if your liver is struggling in stage one, and bathing in it should be limited.

One side note is on the Malic Acid. Besides the effect that Malic Acid has on pain, it is also very good for helping to decongest the liver. A good balance is to take the Magnesium with Malic acid, as the forms of magnesium they combine with Malic Acid are not toxin, and will stay in the body better, and then you can bath in Epson salts everyday if your liver is functioning well, or every day or two if it is struggling. The liver will rid the body of excess Magnesium Sulphate preaty quckly anyhow, and the sulphate is necessary for toxin conversion.

Another note a little off topic, but on the concept on a half hour of soaking equaling your body absorbing a quart of water and whatever is in it. If you are useing a commercial pool or spa, keep in mind that they are almost always kept very high chemicaly, especialy on chlorine. Also, they are seldom drained and refilled with fresh water. This creates a high buildup of disolved solids which the health department has no codes on unsafe levels, but are probably very unhealthy also. The pools are drained once a year at the very best, and the spa's not nearly as often as the amount of use they get. Just one year of not changing the pool water will drive the disolved solids so high the test equipment can no longer measure it. The technicians that take care of commercial pools and spa's don't care if the chemical levels are through the roof and they usualy keep them this way. There is no health codes on how high these chemicals and disolved solids can be. There is only codes on how low, so they are always kept very high. The body needs trace amounts of chlorine. Large amounts are highly toxic. The best rule of thumb on a commercial pool is to find out if it is being drained at least once a year, and if you can smell the chlorine, or it makes your eyes burn, or skin itch, don't use the pool. On commercial Spa's, I recommend not using them at all. The Chlorine levels are usualy kept at anywhere from 10 to even 100 times what is actualy needed on a home spa for it to be sanitary. If your using a home spa, keep your levels at the minimum necessary, and drain and refill around once a month. This would be roughly equivalent to what you would absord taking a bath.

If your liver is struggling, indicated by the early morning, highly annoying wakeups, Google Liver Congestion. There is a huge amount of information on different ways to help the liver work better.

CathyA
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Date Joined Mar 2005
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   Posted 11/29/2008 6:30 PM (GMT -6)   
I wonder if just soaking our hands or feet in epsom salts water would raise our magnesium?

Grailhunter
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Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 159
   Posted 11/29/2008 8:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Sure it would.

You wouldn't get the direct muscle relaxing effect and pain reduction of soaking your whole body, but it would add to raiseing your levels. I would use a cup of it in a foot bath and soak them for about a half hour or so. The concentration is going to be allot higher, even though the surface area is allot lower.

Magnesium from Epson salts almost completely clears the body in 3 days because the body is actively eliminating it as a toxin. Magnesium from other types stay in your body better because its not actively trying to get rid of it. But you get a net gain from the Epson salts because its conserving the other forms of Magnesium your putting in. You could take probably take less of the other forms. Instead of having to take 400 or 500 milligrams a day by mouth if this is causing you digestive problems, loose stools, diahrea or whatever because your sensitive to it, you could probably cut that to 100 or 200 milligrams and build your tissue levels faster then the higher dose alone would. Your body is going to be trying to balance your plasma levels of Magnesium more off the Epson Salts and giving the lower dosages of other forms of Magnesium the ability to build up your tissue levels, which is what your after anyhow.

Has anyone ever posted what the main thing the Magnesium is doing on Fibro, besides being a muscle relaxer? Why we are trying to achieve normal and even high tissue levels of Magnesium?

Our nerves travel through what is called the Dorsal Horn. The Dorsal Horn has nerve receptors that on a normal person are occupied by magnesium. Chronic pain signals through these receptors pushes out the Magnesium and it gets replaced by Calcium, which intensifies the pain. When a person gets chronic pain signals to one area of receptors, it slowly spreads to the adjacent receptors, pushing the magnesium out of these also and creating pain signals to areas your not even really hurt. The Dorsal Horn is between the brain and the area your feeling the pain. You don't have to actualy have a problem in a area of your body to be feeling pain there. Just the Dorsal Horn needs to be agravated, also agravating the nerves to that part of your body. Pain signals are a two way street. The agravated nerve receptors at the Dorsal Horn send pain signals to the brain, and the brain responds by sending signals to that part of the body to go into a guarded position. Chronic guarding of muscles eventualy creates trigger points and now you have a real problem in this new area.

Part of Fibro pain is originating at the particular locations on the body, and part of it is agravated nerve bundles at the Dorsal Horn. This is one of the main reasons that untreated Fibro spreads. The chronic pain signals are agravating adjacent nerve bundles that are nowhere near where your actualy feeling the pain, but because of the two way signaling of pain and muscle guarding when the brain gets pain signals, you eventualy end up with a real problem in this new area. Left unchecked, it keeps speading to adjacent bundles until eventualy you feel like your hurting all over, when in fact your probably not really hurt all over at all. In a way, much of it can be something of a phantom pain, but its not originateing in the brain, its originateing in the nerve bundles of the Dorsal Horn.

The main thing the getting your magnesium levels back up does for you is to help displace the Calcium back out of those nerve receptors, and get the magnesium back in and gives the nerve bundles some normalcy to calm back down again. Hopefully, what eventualy ends up happening is that your pain will get reduced back to just the areas you actualy have problems, instead of having all of this agravated nerve pain going on top of it making you hurt in areas your not even injured, but will eventualy create new problems in those areas. So the Magnesium is doing a bunch of things. Its helping to stop the fibro from spreading. Its calming down the nerve receptors on the areas of actual injury. Its helping to get rid of this phantom body pain. Its acting as a direct muscle relaxer. And its getting one road block out of the way on you effectively treating the real areas by whatever means works for you.

CathyA
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Date Joined Mar 2005
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   Posted 11/29/2008 8:44 PM (GMT -6)   
I want to get my magnesium levels up because I have alot of irregular heartbeats and I think its because of low magnesium. I had tons of palpitations a few years ago and went to the ER. One of the ER docs suggested an IV of magnesium. I couldn't believe it! How exciting that a conventional ER doc would say something like that! I didn't have an irregular heartbeat for 2 weeks after that I.V. infusion!
Currently, I'm taking 1200mg of Calcium a day with about 4-600mg of magnesium. I feel like I need more magnesium, but I get too much diarrhea.......so absorbing it this alternate way is very exciting to me. I think I'll try it tonight.

Grailhunter
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 159
   Posted 11/29/2008 9:31 PM (GMT -6)   
That is a very good idea Cathy. Extra Magnesium for your reasons is very sound. It is highly recommended for irregular heart beat, not only in Holistic medicine but is also used in ER's as you found out. I use it myself for the same reason, beyond Fibro. Kind of like killing two birds with one stone. I also have some asthma problems and it helps with that. Sometimes they will use IV Magnesium in ER's to break severe bronchial spasms when the breathing treatments and epenephrine aren't working good enough. I guess that's 3 birds with one stone. Sort of goes to show just how important this mineral really is.

One thing though. If your source of Magnesium your taking is mixed with your calcium, or if your taking Magnesium Oxide, I would recommend you take the Calcium and Magnesium seperately. Of course it does take Magnesium to absorb Calcium, but they are also antagonistic minerals. The more calcium you put into yourself, the more it lowers magnesium and vice versa. Which is why most Naturopathic Doctors recommend a 1 to 1 ratio. 1200 milligrams of Calcium would be considered normal, but impossible to match with 1200 milligrams of Magnesium when your already having a problem with 600. But there is a way around it if your taking a low absorption form of Magnesium. Magnesium Oxide has a absorption rate of only about 1 percent, and is notorious for diarhea in higher doses. Magnesium Citrate is about 3 to 6 percent absorption depending on what form you use, hard tablets or powder. It also has a much lower effect on causing upset stomach, loose stool, diahrea, then Magnesium Oxide does. You can take quite a bit more Citrate then you can Oxide and get away with it.

So I guess what I am trying to say is to look at the type of Magnesium you are taking, and depending, you maybe able to triple or more the absorption level without taking more Magnesium, and get it up to the equivalent or better of the amount of Calcium your taking, and get rid of the digestive issues.

donnaeil
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Date Joined Jun 2006
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   Posted 11/29/2008 10:13 PM (GMT -6)   
<------imagining people painting milk of magnesia on their bodies.

lol

Jeannie143
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Date Joined Apr 2004
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   Posted 11/30/2008 12:10 AM (GMT -6)   
One of the main reasons I take Malic acid is because fibros have been shown to be deficient in this compound and we need it to complete the conversion of glucose to ATP and energy via the Krebs cycle in the mitochondria. Long term malic acid deficiency can lead to an overall fatigue syndrome and the pain in the muscles. All I know is that I have taken it for a very long time and have pretty much been able to maintain my wedding cake business. When I left my malic acid home while on vacation one year I found out in about three days that a 40 mile round trip to the nearest health food store was well worth the time and effort spent. I NEVER travel without my malic acid anymore, ever!
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. ~Mother Teresa

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

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