an amazing article

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ivy6
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   Posted 10/9/2009 2:01 AM (GMT -7)   
Did anybody else feel that this described you to a T?

Basically, the article is about the influence of early & protracted violence on the development of fibro and CFS symptoms.

http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/42/1/21

Ivy, pretty upset and gobsmacked.
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Littleneck
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   Posted 10/9/2009 2:21 AM (GMT -7)   
Wow, I'm having a really hard time reading this. It describes me to a T. I grew up in a very violent household, witnessing strong physical, verbal, and mental abuse (but not physically harmed myself). I had to put up with it til I was 18 and I always would wonder what would happen to me.  How interesting, making this connection.

ivy6
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   Posted 10/9/2009 2:24 AM (GMT -7)   
... And are you hypervigilant and overly self-sacrificing and busy and just plain EXHAUSTED, as the article describes? 'cos I am.

Sorry about your past.

I.
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SassyMyKitty
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   Posted 10/9/2009 6:36 AM (GMT -7)   
This was really interesting. I had a very rough childhood. My parents divorced when I was five, and my mom married an Ahole. He was very verbally and emotionally abusive towards my sister and I, and also my mom. When I was in high school, I started dating this guy, and he ended up abusing me in any way that a person can be abused. I have always suffered from very low self-esteem. So, I guess that article described me to a T as well.
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. Dr. Seuss
 


puppylover
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   Posted 10/9/2009 7:24 AM (GMT -7)   
Well this was very interesting.  I grew up in a very volatile, tense, angry family.  One minute everything was o.k. and the next minute there would be a horrible screaming scene.  I learned early on to read body language of people and when to get the heck out of the way.  No physical abuse but lots of emotional stuff and fear.  Maybe could explain fibro for me.  Constant stress early on.
Puppylover
 
Fibromyalgia, arthritis in spine and hips, IBS, Raynaud's syndrome, hypertension
 
On the eighth day God created Golden Retrievers.


IndianSummer48
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   Posted 10/9/2009 8:20 AM (GMT -7)   
OMG,talk about describing to a T my life as a child and most of my adult life has been a nightmare. I try not to think about my past to much because it just depresses me more
and when you have FM thats the last thing that you want to do is be depressed because you already are.
I got pregnate at the age of 14 just to get out of it all, and that to turned into a nightmare.
9 years ago next month i will be married to the most wonderful man i have ever met, of course we have our ups and downs what couple doesn't and we are going through a change as we speak but we are getting through it just fine.
Hugs to all,
Jackie

Sherrine
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   Posted 10/9/2009 8:44 AM (GMT -7)   

Well, this doesn't fit me at all.  I had a idyllic childhood with two of the most wonderful parents God created.  We had a lot of family time and Mom and Dad made sure there were plenty of activities for us around the house.  That's why the neighborhood children hung out at our house.  If we were spanked, which happened about two times, we really, really deserved it.  Both of my parents told my brother and me how much they loved us and that we could achieve anything, if we put our mind to it. 

My great grandparents family had a lot of rheumatoid arthritis in it.  They weren't abused, either.  There were 10 in the family and they all worked together and loved one another.  They all stayed in contact as long as they were alive but five of them had rheumatoid arthritis and ended up in wheelchairs.

I personally think genetics plays a big part.  It would have to.  I have fibro and a few other goodies for no other apparant reason except for genetics.  

Sherrine 


Forum Moderator/ Fibromyalgia
***********************
Fibromyalgia, Crohn's Disease, Ostomy, Diabetes, Autoimmune Inner Ear Disease, Osteoporosis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
God does not give us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.    2 Timothy 1:7


Littleneck
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   Posted 10/10/2009 1:28 AM (GMT -7)   
I would agree with living in constant fear. I remember begging my parents to get a divorce because they fought- and I mean FOUGHT - constantly, all night sometimes, and I would be falling asleep in school and people thought I was on drugs because I was SO (as Ivy described) hyper vigilant and self sacrificing. Lying there in bed stiff as aboard waiting for the first thing to be thrown, etc. My Mom made me "rescue" her from my Dad, and my Dad would try to get me on "his side" by telling me how awful my Mom was. Then in the morning they would wake up hungover, and make up while I tried to go to school and be a kid. It was exhausting. I would love to go to sleepovers at my friends' houses because it was so peaceful. I would lie awake all night (as I did at home) but I loved listening to the quiet and people sleeping.

Since reading this I have been thinking more and more about the inappropriate pain response that fibro causes and how, for me, it's tied to my sleep. Since I was small and had to go thru that childhood I have had trouble sleeping and maintaining regular sleep and exercise schedules. The time when I was healthiest and happiest was when I was living overseas for a year- blissfully alone and away from family! - and walking 2-3 miles a day, riding the bus, carrying my groceries home in a backpack. I had no car, I ate good healthy food, and walked a lot. Within three months after moving there I had lost 30 pounds and had legs of steel. I'm thinking this is the way to live!

Thanks for sharing all your stories. This fibro journey can be kind of taxing, but also really enlightening.

ivy6
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   Posted 10/10/2009 1:41 AM (GMT -7)   
Interesting. I can relate to the lying awake in fear, Littleneck.

It hasn't really stopped for me - and it sounds as if it hasn't for you, either - and I so related to the article's description of the constant stress leading to absolute exhaustion. I've never really been able to explain it to anybody, but I'm not just physically tired: I'm emotionally and existentially exhausted too. It doesn't surprise me *at all* that I have a CFS-like illness.

Ivy.
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Littleneck
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   Posted 10/10/2009 1:51 AM (GMT -7)   
I was able to forgive my Dad before he passed away, and then even more after he passed as I learned more about his own terrible life growing up; though it doesn't excuse his behavior, it explained a lot. I ended up just feeling sorry for my Mom. For me, the good thing about growing up like that was that I could set my own boundaries (if I wanted!), and it made me very independent; I had wonderful outlets in my friends and music, and got to know myself very well. But yes, I agree, it doesn't really surprise me that I have this. I am just surprised nothing worse came out of my childhood!

Jhemi
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   Posted 10/10/2009 2:43 AM (GMT -7)   
I can agree with one part of this and I also agree with Sherrine. The part I agreed with is the stress part. I think we all have had some type of melt down...not known exactly what but for the most of us it was just too much to bear and it put us in overload. That's my opinion..;)

As for what Sherrine said I think yes...it is genetically enhanced. My mother had it shortly after we moved to a household filled with negativity and after my father had died. We didnt know it was fibro at that time but looking back at how she acted I'm sure it was.

puppylover
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   Posted 10/10/2009 2:59 AM (GMT -7)   
Littleneck and Ivy,  you just described my childhood.  Lying awake in fear.  I always wondered if this is where my sleeping problems started. One night when I was in bed the fighting and screaming sounded so violent that I actually thought my  dad had killed my mom.  I laid in bed the whole night waiting for morning  thinking I was going to see mom dead on the floor somewhere and would have to get help from someone.  I still remember tiptoeing to the door and slowly opening it after I was sure my dad had left.  I remember the sunshine coming through the kitchen as I crept out of my room.  As I turned to go down the hallway my mom comes out of the bathroom and is surprised to see my up so early.  I was so confused.  She acted like nothing was wrong.  I didn't say anything about what I thought had happened.  I was about 6 or 7 at the time.  I've always thought how sad was that.  I vowed never to put my kids through anything so horrible.  I married a wonderful man who grew up in a family nothing like mine.  I am surprised that I turned out to be what I think is a pretty normal person in spite of my childhood.  I did always wonder why my parents stayed together/  Maybe they just liked to fight.
Puppylover
 
Fibromyalgia, arthritis in spine and hips, IBS, Raynaud's syndrome, hypertension
 
On the eighth day God created Golden Retrievers.

Post Edited (puppylover) : 10/10/2009 4:02:18 AM (GMT-6)


yo-yo
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   Posted 10/10/2009 1:08 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi,

I can definitely relate to Sherrine, as I had an idyllic childhood with lots of love from both my parents and large extended family.  However, I can agree with Jhemi also in that stress overload can tip the scale.  I went through a 14  year marriage that was emotionally shattering.  Coming from such a loving family I was totally unprepared to deal with an unreasonable, angry, put down kind of a person on a daily basis.  He had come from a broken, angry family.  The emotional toll of the marriage, divorce and the toll on my children caused a real crash for me.  I also had a serious auto accident during those years and the fibro came on hard and fast.  So I think that emotional stress does have a place  in fibro, at least for me.

Yo-yo


ContraryMP
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Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 5
   Posted 10/11/2009 7:42 AM (GMT -7)   
I, too, relate on a personal level to this article...I came from a very angry, large, volatile family of alcoholic parents. There was yelling, fighting, emotional and physical abuse going on for much of it. Definitely a troubled childhood, and most of it I can't remember. My brain blocked out a lot. I managed to get away by marrying young and jumped into the arms of a pervert and pedophile. Two children later, I managed with help of friends to move out and start over again. Next relationship was better but had its own issues. Married again -- no fighting there, but over time the differences between us grew too much. Now on marriage number three. It's had its ups and downs, but overall he's a good man, supportive, and caring. Unfortunately, we've had much stress from outside -- both in a major auto accident last year, my younger daughter died in auto accident in Dec., and now we're raising her 10-year old daughter. Life has never been a bowl of cherries. Some days I feel like a walking battle zone.

NoRest

puppylover
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Date Joined Feb 2009
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   Posted 10/11/2009 9:40 AM (GMT -7)   
Welcome NoRest.
 
I also blocked out a lot of my childhood.  Must be our brains way of protecting us.  Alcohol was also a factor in our home .  I married at 18 and am still married to dh after 45 years.  My adult life has been very happy.
 
I am so sorry about your loss of your daughter.  How wonderful for her daughter that she has you.
 
You'll find this forum very helpful.  The people are the greatest.
 
Gentle hugs being sent to you.
Puppylover
 
Fibromyalgia, arthritis in spine and hips, IBS, Raynaud's syndrome, hypertension
 
On the eighth day God created Golden Retrievers.


nasalady
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Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 1176
   Posted 10/11/2009 12:26 PM (GMT -7)   
Interesting article for sure.....

I agree with Sherrine about genetics....but much of my life has been an absolute nightmare. Alcoholic, physically abusive father, then twenty years of a drug-addicted, physically- and emotionally-abusive first husband.

My current marriage has been much better though...and we are raising two of my grandkids (ages 3 and 4, both special needs) because my eldest daughter has mental health issues and can scarcely take care of herself.

This can be very stressful at times, even though we love the kids very much (we've legally adopted them) and they are a blessing to us. The main problem is energy...even if we were healthy (DH has his own health issues), we just don't have the same energy level as we did in our twenties or thirties!

JoAnn
Autoimmune hepatitis, Hashimoto's thyroiditis, fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, celiac disease, asthma, psoriasis, Raynaud's syndrome, hypertension, osteopenia, sleep apnea, restless leg syndrome, GERD. Possible lupus and/or polymyositis - diagnoses pending.

Prednisone, Imuran, Plaquenil, Lyrica, Cymbalta, Levothyroxine, Atenolol, Cozaar, Mirapex, Zyrtec, Fosamax, Albuterol, Prilosec, CPAP


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Statgeek
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Date Joined Jul 2008
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   Posted 10/11/2009 1:00 PM (GMT -7)   
Yes, I have also experienced a traumatic life with a lot of these things they talk about in the article.
 
Just needed to point out that this research finds that cfs and fm and experiences of abuse are related.  That does not mean that one causes the other.  Their findings are suggestive in that they say that the abuse, etc. may lead to pain via somatization tendencies.   Basically they say that the two are related and then go on to postulate why that may be the case.  Their explanations are varied, and obviously need further research. 
 
In addition, the sample sizes are not equal enough for me.  54, 41, 26, 26 and an unknown number of people without any of the illnesses.  Therefore, a chi square analysis of the data may yield a difference just because the sample sizes are different.   This is a peer reviewed journal and they did a bonferroni correction for multiple analyses, which some researchers do not take the time to do.  So that is good.
 
I guess my main point is that this article does not really show anything other than that people with cfs and fm have more experiences with neglect and physical abuse than did the controls and people with ms and ra.  There are no findings as to why or what this actually means. 
 
Here is an example:  there are more robberies when people are eating more icecream.  Does this mean that robberies make you so hot you want to eat ice cream?  Or does it mean that ice cream eating causes some kind of brain change which make people want to commit robbery?  No.  There is a third variable: hot weather.  More robberies occur in hot weather and people eat more ice cream in hot weather. 
 
There may be a third variable. 
Sue

yo-yo
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Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 159
   Posted 10/11/2009 4:50 PM (GMT -7)   

Thanks StatGeek,

I always love it when you respond to these kind of articles.  My stat prof was always very fond of a book he recommended we read.  I believe it was called "How To Lie With Statistics".His point being that you CAN lie with stats and that the uninformed can be led to erroneous conclusions by believing everything they read without really being educated and understanding what they are actually reading.

Yo-yo


nasalady
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Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 1176
   Posted 10/11/2009 9:12 PM (GMT -7)   
Yes, thank you for your cogent analysis, StatGeek! :)

As to the third variable, it may be something as simple as alcoholism. The mere presence of alcoholics in a family practically guarantees more violence than is the norm. :(

And why would families with autoimmune diseases and associated disorders such as fibro and chronic fatique have more alcoholics than families without?

Because they're in chronic pain?

Maybe. I do know that a lot of celiacs have alcoholics in the family, for example. What about people with fibro? Could the alcoholism have stemmed originally from attempts to self-medicate? I have no idea of course, but it's an interesting question. Has anyone ever studied the correlation (or lack thereof) between painful disorders such as fibromyalgia, RA, lupus, etc. and alcoholism?

JoAnn
Autoimmune hepatitis, Hashimoto's thyroiditis, fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, celiac disease, asthma, psoriasis, Raynaud's syndrome, hypertension, osteopenia, sleep apnea, restless leg syndrome, GERD. Possible lupus and/or polymyositis - diagnoses pending.

Prednisone, Imuran, Plaquenil, Lyrica, Cymbalta, Levothyroxine, Atenolol, Cozaar, Mirapex, Zyrtec, Fosamax, Albuterol, Prilosec, CPAP


autoimmunediseasesgfliving.blogspot.com

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