Hope for cirrhosis

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hope2010
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 6/25/2010 8:39 PM (GMT -7)   
I want to share with you the story of my mother's dramatic struggle with her non-alcoholic cirrhosis. She is now 86 and three years ago she was already in a really bad shape - with edema, weight loss, followed by serious confusion etc. She had great professional care from the specialists - but at some point they just gave up and started to prepare us for the worst. And yet - my mother is still with us and feeling amazingly well (which is proven by a great improvement in her test results). The change for the better started maybe a year ago after a very difficult point where we had lost communication with her, she was bedridden, did not eat much and was extremely weak. I was afraid that she was slipping into coma. She was admitted to the hospital, but released shortly afterwards (because "there was not much they could do"). However, since the doctors noticed that my mother did not breath easily, they provided some oxygen supplementation at the hospital. Although they did not believe it would change much, we concluded that maybe at least the breathing will be easier and rented a simple oxygen concentrator, which we wanted to use at home. We started to use it with amazing results. Even within days, my mother started to feel stronger and stronger. Definitely, the liver started to work again, the tests improved significantly. Today, my mother eats with the family at the kitchen table, walks to the bathroom and around the house, started to read newspapers and books. The edema is gone, she gained weight. The doctors admit that the results are very surprising. But I am not so sure that they should be surprising. When I started to read more about liver and oxygen, I concluded that the info is already there. I found scientific papers proving that many liver problems are indeed caused by hypoxia (lack of oxygen) and oxygen supplementation can restore the liver functions (at least in mice).
There is hope, trust me. Cirrhosis can be reversed. I just don't understand why oxygen is so neglected? Does anyone have any experience with it?

hep93
Elite Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 12014
   Posted 6/25/2010 9:13 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi, Hope, and welcome to the forum. That's quite amazing that your mom made such a dramatic recovery. However, I do know that oxygen is used for wounds that refuse to heal. Patients are placed in hyperbaric oxygen chambers for several hours daily, with resultant new tissue growth. So it would stand to reason that oxygen therapy could conceivably heal organs. In cases such as mine, though, where the liver damage is a result of chronic active hep C, I doubt it would do much good. There could also have been some spontaneous healing in your mom's case, or at least regeneration.

It's wonderful that years have been added to your mom's life and that she is doing so well for her age. Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

Connie
hep93
Forum moderator - Hepatitis
 
"But that was yesterday, and I was a different person then."
Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland


Pink Grandma
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Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 2445
   Posted 6/25/2010 9:25 PM (GMT -7)   
Hello Hope,  welcome to healingwell.  Glad that your mom is doing so well now.   
My husband started oxygen about 3 weeks before he died.  It didn't help his liver enough to extend his life very long.  It helped him breathe easier yes.  And yes I know it is good for all  a person's organs not to be oxygen deprived.  
I've have never heard anything about oxygen being able to reverse cirrohsis. The liver is an amazing organ.  The liver can reguvenate itself if there is minimal damage.  But I am under the understanding that once there's cirrohsis, there's no reversing the cirrotic  liver damage itself.   The healthy part of the liver can reguvenate but not the cirrotic part.
Anyone,  correct me if I am wrong please. 
 
(Connie please excuse my spelling....I am not at home and can't find spell check on this computer.)
 
Take care........
    
Pink Grandma
Forum moderator-Hepatitis

When the going gets tough....the tough get going! Don't always know where I going but I get there anyways.


hep93
Elite Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 12014
   Posted 6/25/2010 9:39 PM (GMT -7)   
I did find some medical articles regarding oxygen therapy for cirrhosis, but findings have not been sufficiently positive for it to be an approved treatment at this time.
hep93
Forum moderator - Hepatitis
 
"But that was yesterday, and I was a different person then."
Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland


arneeb
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Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 2350
   Posted 6/26/2010 11:20 AM (GMT -7)   
it seems to me the answer is what connie was saying... and the non-alchoholic... nature...of the cirhosis.. and the ability of the liver to regenerate... bottom line... she recovered.. would be nice to have someone with a medical background investigate this... so maybe other people could be helped or it could be understood...

There is no pit so deep that He is not deeper still... Corrie Ten Boom


hope2010
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 6/26/2010 12:17 PM (GMT -7)   
Indeed, I wonder why these studies are so scarce, while people still suffer and die from this horrible illness.
I want to quote results from a very interesting Australian study: "The data are consistent with the hypothesis that hepatocytes in cirrhotic livers have normal metabolic capacity but are constrained by a deficit in oxygen supply. Interventions aimed at increasing oxygen supply to the liver may have both short- and long-term therapeutic value in the management of cirrhosis". They also concluded that " A variety of metabolic markers affected by cirrhosis showed variable trends toward normal in response to oxygen supplementation" In other words, oxygen supplementation allowed the cirrhotic livers of rats to restore the liver functions.
"Acute Oxygen Supplementation Restores Markers of Hepatocyte Energy Status and Hypoxia in Cirrhotic Rats1
Peta J. Harvey1,2, Jill E. Gready, Zhanli Yin, David G. Le Couteur and Allan J. McLean"

Fortunately, FDA does not have to approve whether we open wide our windows, take deeper breaths, or take walks in the forest or park.
I truly believe that our livers suffocate.

hep93
Elite Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 12014
   Posted 6/26/2010 12:33 PM (GMT -7)   

"I truly believe that our livers suffocate."

If only it were that simple, Hope.

Hugs,

Connie


hep93
Forum moderator - Hepatitis
 
"But that was yesterday, and I was a different person then."
Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland


hope2010
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 6/26/2010 2:39 PM (GMT -7)   
Connie, you have to start SOMEWHERE! You cannot give up, only because it is complicated.
I can tell you what we did (with my sister). Once we have seen a glimpse of improvement with the rented oxygen concentrator, we decided to get our own. We bought one on ebay and I believe that this was the best investment ever. It is a used but operational machine of the size of a big bag. It produces increased concentration of oxygen. I was not willing to go too intensely, so we would just let it run for an hour or two, with the outlet somewhere on the pillow. Not the "oxygen mask" regime, but simply to enrich the atmosphere with oxygen. We do it every day, and of course ventilate the room thoroughly. Do you believe that this can do more harm than there is already? Is there a reason not to give it a try? Do you want to hear about the bonus? My mother suffered for years for circulation problems in her legs. They were always stiff, painful and had purple veins. All this was suddenly gone! The legs became warm, softer and she started to feel them! This is why she is able to walk again.

hep93
Elite Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 12014
   Posted 6/26/2010 3:52 PM (GMT -7)   
Hope, nobody said anything about "giving up." However, what you must understand is that there are many different reasons for liver disease. If a person has viral hepatitis, it's unlikely that oxygen therapy would cure them. There is also something called autoimmune hepatitis. Likewise with that, it's not likely to effect a cure. It is these diseases that cause the cirrhosis. Therefore, the cause has to be eradicated or controlled in order to keep the cirrhosis from advancing.

I think your mother is a very lucky lady that she had a type of liver problem that responded so well to oxygen. I also think that she had some spontaneous recovery.

I see too much here to think something so simplistic would do miracles. Have you read many of the posts here? No, the oxygen probably wouldn't hurt. I know from personal experience that it cures hangovers. But I don't believe in giving people false hope, either.

Connie


hep93
Forum moderator - Hepatitis
 
"But that was yesterday, and I was a different person then."
Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

Post Edited (hep93) : 6/27/2010 11:59:55 AM (GMT-6)


arneeb
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 2350
   Posted 6/26/2010 11:35 PM (GMT -7)   
Hope thanks so much for the well documented research article... well quoted and cited... thanks Sandi

There is no pit so deep that He is not deeper still... Corrie Ten Boom


sd grandma
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 23
   Posted 7/1/2010 1:04 PM (GMT -7)   
I was dx in Jan 09 and am on pain meds, bp meds, remeron for sleeping and nexium. Started oxygen 2 month's ago. Weighed 76,now 81-83 in 2 months. Sleep is much improved and mind is clearer some days. My cirrosis is alochol. Im a 52 yr old granny

hep93
Elite Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 12014
   Posted 7/1/2010 2:48 PM (GMT -7)   
SD, you weighed 76???

Connie
hep93
Forum moderator - Hepatitis
 
"But that was yesterday, and I was a different person then."
Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland


sd grandma
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 23
   Posted 7/5/2010 12:16 PM (GMT -7)   
Hello! Hope everyone had a happy 4th

Yes I'm 82 lbs on a good day. Normal weight was 120. Last assperation was 6 liters and I don/t feel any fluid retention so i'm hopeful

hope2010
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 7/7/2010 6:21 PM (GMT -7)   
No, I don't believe in false hope either. But I think there is nothing wrong in trying things "just in case", when there is really nothing more to do.
For the record - my mother has Primary Biliary Cirrhosis - PBC, the autoimmune disease of the liver. Well documented, but no one knows the reason.
I agree that there is not much evidence about the effects of oxygen on the cirrhotic liver - maybe this is indeed just too simple and too easy to be convincing. But there is actually plenty of evidence showing that deficiency in oxygen intake can cause very serious liver problems. There are numerous studies showing that even moderate oxygen deficiency (snoring, apnoea) can be disastrous for the liver.

For example, "researchers kept mice for a week in low-oxygen atmospheres and found that it led to increased levels of fat and inflammation in their livers. n addition, the mice exposed to low levels of oxygen became less sensitive to insulin. This is the mechanism by which the body regulates blood sugar and is a cause of diabetes. Metabolic disorders such as diabetes and obesity can cause complications in patients with NASH.

Commenting on the finding, Dr Piguet said, "Hypoxia (lack of oxygen) may be the link leading to accumulation of fat in the liver and to the progression of non-alcoholic steatohepatitis. Our findings show that it is important both to screen obese patients for obstructive sleep apnoea to prevent it contributing to fatty liver disease and to treat those patients who already have NASH for hypoxia which may be making their condition worse".

You can find many papers similar to this one.

I believe that with the alcohol-related cirrhosis at least you know the culprit. But the damage is there - as in any other case. I believe that the healing process can be improved with the help of oxygen, independently of the original cause of the cirrhosis. Liver can cure itself, but it needs help.
I want to make myself clear: I do not wish to exaggerate our situation, I don't want to claim a miracle. I want to say how thankful I am for another day without the debilitating itching and for another night with some quiet sleep for my mother. I know that it cannot last...
Please, at least let's consider the possibility...

hep93
Elite Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 12014
   Posted 7/7/2010 8:16 PM (GMT -7)   
Somehow I doubt insurance would be willing to pay for oxygen unless there is a documented respiratory problem.

hep93
Forum moderator - Hepatitis
 
"But that was yesterday, and I was a different person then."
Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland


fishwife
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2015
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 8/30/2015 10:53 AM (GMT -7)   
hmmmmmm i know this thread is old, but.....i find this exciting. oxygen does so much everywhere in our bodies. it stands to reason that, by strengthening and improving overall would put less pressure on our liver.
maybe it could be easier for it to do what it Can do for itself. even if its at say a ten% function.
hope2010-thankyou (5yrs later) for your post- im going to look into this for possibly helping my body too!
fishy
hcv3 for 35 years never treated and cirrhosis
investigating best course of treatments for me.


even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers at night........

themiz
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts : 1891
   Posted 8/30/2015 11:56 AM (GMT -7)   
Fishwife.

Again, you are posting to someone that has not been active for 5 years. This thread is 5 years old.

I will now lock this one.

Check the dates of the posts, and try to post to the active threads. Thanks!
themiz-Forum Moderator-Hepatitis
Wife of themister, a fine man living with ESLD. Transplant list-2013

“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran
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