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Marg57
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 446
   Posted 5/3/2006 3:10 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi everyone
I'm being a bit lazy.  I should read through old posts for this information but right now I haven't got time. 
I read a while back about symptoms of liver disease and cramping was mentioned.  Each time my liver function scores have deteriorated i have had cramping and muscle-like spasms in my hands and feet.  Is this the cramping mentioned in the symptoms?
If I recall it was one of you lovely girls who are carers for your partners.
Hope you can help me with this.  The last few days I have had these strange cramps return and I'm hiping it's not a set back.
Hope everyone is doing well.Take care.
Marg
 


TDT
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 402
   Posted 5/3/2006 5:44 AM (GMT -7)   

Hi Marg,

Mark has this cramping also, his doctors have so far allowed him to have 1 flexeril for it but they don't allow him to take it daily. I don't know that it has anything to do with his liver function declining. I know when he is more stable with the liver function he gets them less often. He usually stretches too help relieve them. Bless you!!!

Hugs

Teresa


Barbara P
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 256
   Posted 5/3/2006 8:10 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Marg,
 
Gene also gets terrible cramping or muscle spasms; usually in his calf muscles but occassionally in his arms. They tend to occur when something is setting his system off but not necessarily a decline in liver functioning unless the liver is temporarily reacting to an electrolyte imbalance or his more recent iron toxicity. He also lhad spasms when his back went out 6 months ago.
 
I hope this is helpful. Gene doesn't take anything; he just remains motionless until the worst is over as any touch or movement is excrutiating for him. And Gene has a high threshold of pain.
 
Hugs,
Barb
                     LIVE IN THE MOMENT!
 
                          Hugs and Prayers
                                     Barb
 
 
 
 


mnmom
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 5/3/2006 10:09 AM (GMT -7)   
I don't post often but I check the site almost everyday.  It's so amazing, my husband has just recently started having problems with cramping.  Usually occurs during the evening and night.  Last night was horrible niether one of us got much sleep and here today you guys are addressing it.  WOW!! Just as,  recently, we were really struggling with intimacy issuses and there it was.  It makes it easier to deal with if you know its a common situation in your circumstance.  You people are all wonderful and I hope you realize how many people you are helping, it's not just the regular posters.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who just follows the forum without posting.

TCboy
New Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 5/3/2006 1:34 PM (GMT -7)   
mnmom...
 
I am new to the board here.  Just joined today.  Would I be correct to assume that you live in Minnesota (thus the name)?  I do, too.  Is it your husband who suffers from UC?  Has he tried to combat it with diet ever?  I would love to give him a gift (a book to read).  I was diagnosed with UCsome 5 years ago (could have been 6, I don't remember).  Through some kind of luck, my mother discovered a diet that changed my life.  Not only do I live a totally normal life (save for my somewhat restrictive diet), but I haven't had a UC related flare-up in probably 4 years or more.  But not just no flare-ups...no pain whatsoever. 
 
I don't say this lightly.  The diet has literally saved my life.  Not only am I very active (enjoy running, sports, etc), but I have an extremely stressful job with long hours (investment banker).  Without the diet, the life I lead now wouldn't be possible.  I don't like to  post the name on the site, because I don't want people to think I am promoting one book or product.  Nothing could be further from the truth. I am only 26 years, and certainly don't have any interest in promoting one viewpoint or potential solution to UC.  But for me, months and months will go by and the fact that I have UC will never cross my mind (because my diet is second nature).  To me, that is about as close to a "cure" as one can hope for.
 
Let me know if your husband would like me to send him a free copy of the book outlining the diet.  I promise, no strings attached.
 
All my best to you and your husband,
 
A friend in the Twin Cities

mnmom
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 5/3/2006 2:00 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi Tc boy,

Yup, live in cental mn.  My husband was diagnosed in April 05 with cryptogenic cirrhosis.  Have had a few ups and downs this last year primarily with bleeding in esophagus, and struggling with keeping the ascites under control.  He is also a type 2 diabetic and blood sugars are very high despite high doses of insulin.  He does not qualify for a transplant because he chooses not to take an active role in his care.  I am a nurse, lucky for him!! so I basically come home from work to take care of another patient.   He does still go to work everyday which is good because he carries the insurance for our family.  We have made peace with our situation, although it is still very hard on our kids and I get tired, this disease is like a rollercoaster ride and if I let my guard down for a minute he gets worse.

Not sure he would follow a special diet, he is non compliant with the low salt and diabetic diet he should be following now.  I would be interested in reading the book however.  Tell me what Uc is I am fairly well versed on liver diseases and dont even have a guess. 

Take care and I hope the sun is shining in the cities,  We had a couple of hours of sun this am, now it looks like rain again.


Barbara P
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 256
   Posted 5/3/2006 2:23 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi Mnmom,

I'm guessing, but I think UC refers to ulcerative colitis rather than a liver related condition. I'm glad you're reading the posts even when not replying. We would also love to benefit from your experiences, questions and comments however. We are a close knit and loving group as you already know.

Your husband is fortunate to have you there to nurse him and troubleshoot. That seems to be the role we caregivers assume whether or not we are medically trained as we know our loved ones bodies and subtle changes even moreso than the professonals who don't live with the day to day problems.

Fortnately my husband has taken an active role in his diet and medical decisions and for the past three years has done whatever it takes to regain or maintane stability.

Even a few hours of sunshine boosts our spirits. I grew up in St. Paul but we've lived in CA for the past 43 years.

Hugs,

Barb


                     LIVE IN THE MOMENT!
 
                          Hugs and Prayers
                                     Barb
 
 
 
 


TCboy
New Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 5/3/2006 2:26 PM (GMT -7)   
My apologies to the group...I thought i was in the ulcerative colitis forum.  I am sorry for bothering you guys with that.  My heart was in the right place, even if I wasn't! 

wheredidigo
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 605
   Posted 5/3/2006 8:56 PM (GMT -7)   
so glad to hear from you mnmom,,,glad this forum is helping you,the role of a caregiver is ROUGHHHHHHHHH!!! it is extremely strange how many times somethin new has come up with rick,and bammm,there it is on this forum,,its amazes me.. personally i am very grateful for this forum,,i dont feel like im shouldering the burdens alone anymore. even if ya dont post often,let us know how ya doin once in a while,and ill make sure to keep ya on my mind and in my prayers. good luck
trish

mnmom
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 5/3/2006 9:14 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the kind words Trish.  I missed you in the chatroom by just seconds tonite.  Next time!! It sounds like we have alot in common.

Marg57
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 446
   Posted 5/4/2006 3:02 AM (GMT -7)   
Thank you teresa, barb and mnmum for your confirmation about the cramping. Even though my heptologist says it has nothing to do with my liver condition, I find it amazing that it was one of my first symptoms (at least three months before diagnosis) and twice when I have gone into a temporary decline the hand and feet cramps have accompanied the failing liver function. Combined with the fact that my abdomen is a little larger (keep hoping it's still those extra Easter eggs) I think I'll get along for another set of blood tests.
Glad to have you on the Forum mnmum. I don't know what I'd do without the new friends I have made here.
Take care everyone.
Marg
 


TDT
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 402
   Posted 5/4/2006 7:57 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi mnmom,
Wow what alot we have in common!! Welcome to the forum! I am a nurse also. We have been battling the ascites and bloods sugars also! We are getting the blood sugars under control now, we are doing SS before meals and Lantus at night. The ascites are another story, they go down and like now he is pretty close to needing a paracentesis. He has been compliant with his diet, but the liver function has been going down lately. We are hopeful that we will be list for Transplant within the next couple of months. We did see the transplant clinic on Tuesday, he has to be up on all the immunizations and has a couple of months to go to A.A. My husband has been unable to work, due to mal-nutrition and encephalopathy. Which has made A.A. meetings hard for him to attend, even with me taking him. Hope to see you posting again!
Hope everyone is having a good day!!
Hugs
Teresa

lerie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 966
   Posted 5/4/2006 7:08 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Marg, I get a lot of cramping to in my feet,hands,calves & ribcage & upper abdominal area.Good luck with your hepatologist appt. on the 7th. My thoughts & prayers are with you. later...

wheredidigo
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 605
   Posted 5/4/2006 7:33 PM (GMT -7)   
marg,
im so sorry,i didnt even reply to you and your the one that started this thread! theres that stress induced airheadedness,,,,,,,lol I just got excited from a new member,,,i just love being able to meet new ppl through this forum,it seems to draw the right ppl together,,,anyway,,,back to the original subject,,,,,yes,rick does get cramping,mostly in his legs and in his lower abdominal area,below the belly button. hope to catch ya in chat soon marg,i havent been stayin up as late lately,,hittin the nyquil and lunesta kinda hard,i was on the verge of craziness from not enough sleep,,,,,wont be long ill go natural again,when the kids school is out,and i can sleep in a lil in the mornin and be my normal nightowl self. :) see ya soon
trish

Marg57
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 446
   Posted 5/5/2006 12:11 AM (GMT -7)   
lerie said...
Hi Marg, I get a lot of cramping to in my feet,hands,calves & ribcage & upper abdominal area.Good luck with your hepatologist appt. on the 7th. My thoughts & prayers are with you. later...
Is this cramping part of liver disease?  Now that I read your post I could describe what I have sometimes in my liver area as cramping but it's the hands that are the worst.  If I hold a pen  writing for a while, play the piano for a while, type for a while, even hold the car steering wheel on some days, the first finger sets straight in a sort of spasm, up through the adjoining muscles of the hand.  It lasts for just a short while but is often extremely painful.  I sometimes use a heat bag to relieve the pain in feet and hands.
While it's not bad now i have the feeling often that's it's just around the corner - only seconds away- and i stop the activity before it comes.  Is this common with anyone else?
 


Marg57
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 446
   Posted 5/5/2006 12:15 AM (GMT -7)   
wheredidigo said...
marg,
im so sorry,i didnt even reply to you and your the one that started this thread! theres that stress induced airheadedness,,,,,,,lol I
No worries Trish.  Just interested to know if this was common to other liver diseasee sufferers because the heptologist seemed so determined that this symptom had nothing to do with my AIH or cirrhosis.  And yet each time my tests deteriorated the cramps returned!!
I haven't been in chat so much lately.  This has been my big week at school.  (five days).  I work 3 days next week so should have more time. 
Catch you some time.  If we keep trying eventually we'll meet there again.
Take care
Marg
 


hep93
Elite Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 12014
   Posted 5/5/2006 12:30 AM (GMT -7)   
Marg, I'm inclined to think that you are having muscle spasms in your hands and feet, either from stress or osteoarthritis. I get these a lot in my hands. It doesn't bother me typing, but I can no longer write in long-hand...I have to print, and that also hurts, though not as much. The spongy exercise balls are good at keeping the fingers loose. You can also try to pick them up with your toes. It's a matter of trying to keep the joints flexible.

However, a cramping sensation in the upper belly is more associated with liver disease. Even before the liver cancer was diagnosed, I was having an odd type of cramping, twisting sensation under my left ribs. I now know that is is likely due to enlargement of my liver from the large tumor, where my spleen and left lobe of liver are being compressed.

That is unusual for you to experience this cramping when your labs deteriorate. As we all know, every individual is different...so I wouldn't entirely rule out a correlation between the cramping and poor lab results.

Connie

Marg57
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 446
   Posted 5/5/2006 5:18 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks Connie for you advice. Stress could be the cause. We have begun the new school term and things are very hectic plus I have a new work colleague who is proving very dufficult to work with. And then when I worry about the crampgin, that it might be a liver decline I probably become more stressed. I'll just calm down and try to forget about it.
Hope you are feeling OK.
Take care
Marg
 


mnmom
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 5/5/2006 5:24 AM (GMT -7)   
I think low potasium can cause cramping or charliehorses

lerie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 966
   Posted 5/5/2006 6:19 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Marg, lots of things can cause the cramping including as already mentioned ostrearthrites tho for me this cause more pain & aching than cramping. Low calcium can also cause charlie horses. For me I was told the cramping was from the cirrhosis because the liver doesn't send enough enzymes to the muscles now & this causes the charlie horses & weakness for me. Ostreoarthritis is common with cirrhosis.Have you had any x-rays for ostreo?My thoughts & prayers are with you. later.....

wheredidigo
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 605
   Posted 5/5/2006 7:20 PM (GMT -7)   
marg,when i was sick and my liver function wasnt good,,it seemed all my aches and pains got worse,so maybe,you have another problem with your hands,but when your liver isnt functioning well,,it makes the other problem feel worse??
trish

Marg57
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 446
   Posted 5/5/2006 10:36 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi everyone
I have not heard this term: charlie horses. Can someone explain please.
I'll have some blood work done in the next week so should see whether potassium is low. I have not had an x-ray for osteoarthritis. I'll ask my GP about it next time I visit. I'm beginning to think that I am just looking for symptoms and every little thing might be associated with my cirrhosis. I just need to chill out and not worry so much.
Take care.
Marg
 


hep93
Elite Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 12014
   Posted 5/6/2006 12:05 AM (GMT -7)   
Marg, a "Charley horse" is just a term for a tightness and cramping, usually referring to a specific spot, like the calf. ;) I think it's normal for us to wonder if new symptoms are a result of liver disease.

As for osteoarthritis, tell your doctor that you are having cramping and pain in your hands and would like an x-ray to rule out arthritis. (Go to a different doctor, such as a primary care physician.) Of course, if you do have osteoarthritis, there is nothing really to be done except to get on a regimen of antiinflammatories (which you may not be able to take) and/or pain pills.

Hugs,
Connie

PN16
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 98
   Posted 5/25/2006 10:41 AM (GMT -7)   

hello -

my Dad also has severe cramping in his legs and just recently his stomach - he takes a quinine (sp?) pill when it happens if it is extreme - and then make sure to eat a banana in his delicious nutritional shake in the a.m.


Marg57
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 446
   Posted 5/26/2006 7:16 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks everyone for you advice. The cramping seems to be improving. I'm guessing it was a bit of stress.
Take care
Marg
 

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