Bile Salts Diarrhea After Gall Bladder Removed Try This

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lnape
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 185
   Posted 1/10/2010 9:32 PM (GMT -6)   
I have not posted my information for a long time so I thought it may be helpful to do it again for all the people suffering from diarrhea thinking it is IBS when it is most likely Bile Salts Diarrhea. Write me if you have questions and I will help if I can.

This is what has helped me for more than 11 years with almost daily attacks of urgent diarrhea after having my Gall Bladder removed. Calcium is known to be constipating so if you are that IBS type do not take it. All calcium is not the same. Here is the what and how to take the calcium information if you suffer from diarrhea.

Calcium is an OTC supplement we all do not usually get enough of. No Rx is needed to purchase this.

When you take calcium about 40% of the dose gets to the bones the rest is eliminated in our waste. The calcium goes to the intestines and soaks up excess fluids and binds them together and they are gotten rid of in our waste.

This is a process that can be continued by taking the calcium carbonate on a daily basis thus giving a more formed BM.

There is calcium carbonate which helps us with diarrhea and there is calcium citrate which is more easily absorbed by the body and gets to the bones but is not as helpful in controlling diarrhea.

A lot of the calcium supplements contain a 2 to 1 ratio of calcium to magnesium. Magnesium is not helpful for us with diarrhea only causing more in most cases. So, do not purchase this combination. It will only make things worse. Also if you are taking a multi vitamin with magnesium this may be a source of some of the problem if you are having diarrhea. Also for me vitamin C and E seemed to cause me stomach upset.

The dose to take is different for everyone. I must take 3 a day one at each meal and it does not make a difference if I take it before during or after just take it regularly. Taking them at least 4 or 5 hours apart is also necessary so the calcium has time to go through the system and soak up excess bile and water. Sometimes, because of the long number of hours between dinner and breakfast it may be necessary to adjust your timing to taking one at bedtime with a small snack to get better results if you are a person who usually suffers from diarrhea in the mornings.

The most success has come from using any formula of calcium supplement that is like Caltrate 600 Plus with Vitamin D and Minerals in the purple and white box. This information is from the many users that have sent me emails and of the posters on the web site. I hope this will help anyone wishing to try it and I am always here to answer any questions for you. I have a lot of feed back form many users.

You must also have some testing done to be sure you are not dealing with anything more serious. This is most important.

There are other things to consider. If you take any other meds check the side effects and also check with the Doctor or Pharmacist to see if taking calcium will interfere with your other medications and how you might take them. I know if you take thyroid meds it is important not to take the calcium at the same time but maybe 4 hours apart. The calcium will soak up the thyroid medication and you will not be getting the benefit from it. You should also look at the side effects of any other meds you may be on this can contribute to the success or failure of using calcium to help to control your diarrhea. You may also consider if you are constipated and taking calcium this may be the reason for your constipation. You can most likely switch to another form of calcium to relieve this also.

The only side effect is at the beginning of taking the calcium, you may have some gas or indigestion but this usually goes away soon after taking a regular dose for a few days as your body adjusts to the added calcium.

Starting with 1/2 tablet doses with each meal will lessen this problem and it may be enough to control the diarrhea attacks without making you constipated.

Constipation can be a problem so be careful not to take too much. It is safe for most of us to take 1800 mg a day as long as your body processes calcium correctly and you do not have some underlying problem. Check with your Doctor.

I had my gall bladder removed in 1976 and from that time on I had suffered urgent attacks of diarrhea. Went through a lot of test but nothing else could be found. I took many of the meds for bowel spasms and cramps over the years but nothing ever seemed to help. I started to take a calcium supplement to help prevent bone loss in later years and from the first day I felt relief. I was pretty much a prisoner to the bathroom or had to go without eating to be able to leave the house.

I must take 1 tablet with each meal and the diarrhea does not come back if I miss taking it I get diarrhea. It is a trial and error situation to find the right amount that may help you.

The way it works is the calcium carbonate it a binder and when you take it only about 40% of the calcium gets to the bones and the rest is gotten rid of in our waste. During that process it gets to the intestines and soaks up excess bile and water and helps give a more solid BM. Now that you have no gall bladder the bile fluid goes directly into the intestines and causes irritation and diarrhea. The calcium carbonate soaks this up and no more diarrhea. It works great for a lot of us and you just have to take the calcium regularly and do not miss.

I started with Caltrate 600 Plus with vitamin D and minerals and it does seem to make a difference in the ingredients of calcium... This one seems to do the best job for most. You can buy other store brands of calcium with the same ingredients that work just as well but they need to have the same ingredients. I get Member's Mark Brand from Sam's Club you get 300 tablets for 8.99. Let me know if you need more help. You won't be sorry if you try it.

I suggest starting with 1/2 tablet with each meal at first this may be enough to control the diarrhea if not in a few days up the dose to 1 tablet with each meal or any combination there of. The side effect is constipation so if you feel it coming on just cut the dose. It is important to use a calcium that is as much alike as the Caltrate brand from the feedback I have gotten.

Let me list the ingredients:

Vitamin D 400 IU (The sunshine vitamin needed to help the body absorb calcium)

Calcium 500 or 600 MG (This should be calcium carbonate form) (Calcium is the most abundant mineral in the body. It is essential for maintaining strong bones and teeth. Calcium is vital to muscle and nerve function, blood clotting and metabolism.)

Magnesium 50 MG (No more than this amount because magnesium will cause you to have diarrhea but because calcium is constipating the magnesium helps to counter act that effect) (Magnesium is essential to build bones and is needed for muscle function, energy metabolism, trans-mission of nerve impulses and to make genetic material and protein.)

Zinc 7.5 MG (Zinc is necessary for some metabolic processes, normal growth and sexual development, and proper immune system functions.)

Copper 1 MG (Copper promotes iron absorption and is essential to red blood cells, connective tissue, fibers and skin pigmentation.)

Manganese 1.8 MG (Maganese plays an important role in metabolism and is also needed to build bones and tendons.)

Boron 250 MCG. (Improves calcium and magnesium retention. Similar improvements can also be seen in Vitamin D deficient post-menopausal females.)

There are other brands with the same ingredients so get something as close as you can. Then start with 1/2 tablet with each meal and in a few days if this is not enough to control your diarrhea then up the dose to 1 tablet with each meal. If you feel you are becoming constipated then cut back on the dose. You may have to stop the calcium completely then start back after you have a BM at a lower dose.

It has been working since the first day I started taking it July 1998 and as long as I take 3 a day (this is the amount I must take it may be different for you) I remain diarrhea free. No cramps, bloating or diarrhea.
The dose you take with each meal is not the dose that is helping you at that meal it is the prior ones that have time to works their way through you system to soak up excess bile and water in the intestines.

It also works for those of you who still have the gall bladder.

Take Care,

Linda

LNAPENTS@netscape.net
Suffered Urgent Diarrhea Attacks After Having Gall Bladder Removed in 1976. This is now controlled by taking Calcium Carbonate.


Anne2
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 36
   Posted 4/10/2010 2:41 PM (GMT -6)   
 Thanks for this information. I had my GB out 8 years ago and have had severe diarrhea ever since. 5 years ago I was mis diagnosed with crohn's disease and put on some intense meds which of course did not help and the doctor would just have me take more or change the meds to something else, so 2 years ago I decided to quit them altogether and started taking fiber which helped but fiber blocks iron absorbtion which caused serious anemia to the point of having to take intravenous iron. Still used it but keep an eye on the iron. November I decided to try a new gastro doc. Blood test he ran came back that I did not have crohn's so he did another colonscopy which confirmed it and said I have the bile salt diarrhea and gave me the welchol tabs which are not suppose to have side effects because they are not asorbed into the blood stream, but I now beg to differ as I seem to have some of the same smyptons that I read about on here after doing some research on the drug. I am going to stop with the meds and try this Caltrate. Hope to God this works as I am getting weary of all this, will keep you posted and will want to ask you questions I'm sure. Thanks,
Waitng for a cure!


lnape
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 185
   Posted 4/12/2010 7:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Anne2,

I hope you give it a good try and if you need help just email me and I will help if I can. Try to follow the instructions just as they say.

Linda
Suffered Urgent Diarrhea Attacks After Having Gall Bladder Removed in 1976. This is now controlled by taking Calcium Carbonate.


IowaGal
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 2/12/2011 11:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Linda, I am hoping to give the Calcium Carbonate a try. I was on cholystyramine but decided I wanted to try going off it for a while to see if it was causing my unusual liver function readings. I have only been off it for about a week and am already having problems with the diarrhea again. I have since read a lot about the side effects of cholestyramine and really don't want to go back on it if I possibly can avoid it. One warning was that it could completely block the biliary system and that sounds pretty scary to me. :( It is my understanding, though, that taking more than the maximum dose of 1.2 to 1.5 g of calcium carbonate can be toxic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate skull

Post Edited (IowaGal) : 2/14/2011 9:20:26 AM (GMT-7)


lnape
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 185
   Posted 2/13/2011 8:35 PM (GMT -6)   
IowaGal

Let me know how you are and if you need some help. You can email me at lnapents@aim.com

IowaGal
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 2/16/2011 12:19 PM (GMT -6)   
So far, don't seem to be having very good luck. Am wondering if I got the right stuff. It is Members Mark brand that says compare to Caltrate 600 +D plus minerals. I took 3 half tabs the first day but had such a bad episode the 2nd day that I added a half tab so now I am up to the maximum dosage.

lnape
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 185
   Posted 2/16/2011 5:10 PM (GMT -6)   
IowaGal,

Do you take other meds or vitamins. Do you eat lettuce and acid foods. GIve me some idea of what you are eating in a day. You have the calcium I take but for some taking only calcium carbonate and vitamin D may be better for you.

Even the little bit of magnesium the the one with minerals can give you diarrhea.

Linda

finenow
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 35
   Posted 2/17/2011 1:39 AM (GMT -6)   
The doctors found out I had Celiac after 2 years of tests. Now eating Gluten Free I feel great.
I also have bile salts D. which added to my problems. I am taking 1 pkg. daily of  Cholestyramine and it really works. It took about 2 days and I feel great and no more D.

IowaGal
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 2/24/2011 11:29 AM (GMT -6)   
finenow, too bad the docs didn't do the simple celiac test early on and saved you a lot of grief. :( Linda, I don't eat lettuce or anything along that line since going off the cholestyramine. I wanted to see what my liver functions would be without the cholestyramine and they are the same so that is an option, to go back on the cholestyramine. I just am concerned about the possible side effect of completely clogging my biliary system with cholestyramine. I do have the members mark calcium carbonate that has the small amt of magnesium. I may try the Colestid but I need to research the side effects on that.

finenow
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 35
   Posted 2/24/2011 2:30 PM (GMT -6)   
My doctors are not concerned at all to be a long time user of cholestyramine. I have been on it for a year now. No side effects what so ever. I tried going off and the urgent D. came back almost immediately.
This medication has been around a very long time so I feel confident.
Hope you can find a way as well.

finenow
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 35
   Posted 2/24/2011 2:42 PM (GMT -6)   
After reading about Caltrate I am going to try it. I hate taking meds if I don't have to. I'll wait until I have a week where I don't have to go anywhere. I would love it if this works. I'll let you all know how it went. I don't know if you have this problem but I can't seem to loss any weight. When I had the problem with celiac I lost tons of weight and had malaborbtion, but when I got organized I started gaining weight again. Everyone thinks that celias are skinny (a misconception)

IowaGal
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 2/25/2011 5:03 PM (GMT -6)   
I guess I am going to try colestid when my doctor gets back from vacation so she can call it in.

finenow
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 35
   Posted 2/25/2011 7:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Let me know how this works. Its good to keep trying new meds so one of these days we will hit on a good one with no side effects.

finenow
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 35
   Posted 2/26/2011 11:56 AM (GMT -6)   
I have researched the side effects of Cholestyramine. There are no side effects regarding clogging bile ducts as stated by someone. I think they got it mixed up.... People with Billary Obstruction use Cholestyramine. There are other side effects but not to serious.

Macha
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 3/3/2011 4:14 PM (GMT -6)   
I am so glad I found this. I usually won't register for forums but this one is important to me.

So here is my story. My gallstones were found while I was pregnant. I've had bad acid reflux since I was a kid but when I got pregnant it got so much worse from my second month in. I couldn't eat without throwing up battery acid tasting yellow/ green stuff. My doctor had me tested for gall stones and sure enough there were a bunch of those little things in there. It was so bad it was affecting my health and my babies health. We were almost hospitalized several times because we were starving and there was nothing we could do about it.
I had my son two months early because I had such a bad attack that nothing would calm it and it was causing my blood pressure to skyrocket (I also had pre-eclampsia) and it was affecting my son as well. My doctor was on her way in from out of town and her stand in was trying to force me to have the surgery immediately and told me it would either kill me or my son. I refused for hours dealing with the pain. They finally took the choice away from me and my doctor showed up as they were prepping me for surgery. My refusal for so long let my doctor show up in time to stop everything. She induced my labor that night and I now have a happy healthy 3 year old boy.
The thing is I am terrified of any surgery and after having an emergency c-section that fear tripled. I waited a year after I had my baby to deal with the gallbladder. My mom finally talked me into having it done. So I met with the surgeon with a long list of questions for the second time. The first time I had met with the father (father/son team) and he ended up saving my sons life and mine without knowing he. He told me how dangerous it was to have the surgery while I was pregnant in the first place.
However he told me that removing my gallbladder would most likely also stop my acid reflux and let me continue leading a normal life. My mom warned me about the side effects of the surgery...which just scared me more. She said for her it only lasted the first year, but that everyone was different.

That was 2 years ago.
In some ways having it removed was a blessing. In my year of avoiding the surgery I had read about two home remedies to help with the attacks. Tons of apples and ginger. Mixing straight ginger in a liquid and drinking it to stop an current attack and apples to pass the stones to avoid surgery.
The apples were not true. I found that you don't actually pass gallstones unless they are extremely tiny...mine were not. But the ginger would stop an attack. I always new when one was coming because of that dull ache right before the major pain. Chocolate and friend food were my culprits. I still can't each chocolate without a reminder of those days. The ginger burned so bad. I went to ginger supplements but they didn't work as well as the straight ginger.

Finally one of my moms friends who was avoiding the surgery like me ended up with pancreatitis...something that can be deadly. That was enough along with her encouragement for me to schedule the surgery. December 29th...

In some ways that surgery has destroyed life as I knew it. I would get D so bad that I stopped eating or ate very little. THe acid reflux intensified. We were on a low carb diet.
A year ago I started eating carbs again. I realized that the more carbs I ate the less the D happened but I still would not eat away from my home.
I would no longer hang out with friends because of the embarrassment. I became a hermit, my self esteem was gone, my social life was gone, and even passion for my husband was gone all because of the embarrassment. I was terrified of that "uh oh" moment.
I thought I was taking control of my life again by getting anti - D meds. I had to learn to balance them as going from constipated to D every few days was miserable. My husband has become a great support team on that front. At first he would tease me which just made things worse but he soon learned how bad it affected me.
I am from the south...fried food is part of our life. I finally decided I am not going to let this stuff affect me or my happiness anymore. I will eat or drink what I want but I have to be careful of when I want. I still don't eat out...no dinner dates for two years has hurt our marriage. I've been terrified to go back to work. There is not always a bathroom in EMS. My son is now three and I am itching to return to work and a normal life. I miss my friends and going out. I want to be able to take my son to the park and not be afraid of an accident.
So I have been searching and searching for answers. I started taking a multi vitamin because as bad as things have gotten it doesn't matter how healthy I eat anymore. There is no time for my body to get the nutrients from my food. I won't explain how I know this....just suffice to know that I do.
I want my life back! Any of us that go through this want our lives back. I don't want to make excuses for not eating my favorite foods or not seeing friends anymore. I refuse to compromise any longer.
Since reading all the posts here I have stopped taking the multi vitamin except for when there is an illness in the house. I plan on trying the calcium. I wouldn't compromise on the acid reflux and I take prevacid daily for it. Mexican food is my favorite...which is bad for both sides of this problem. So if my friends want to go to a mexican restaurant I want to be able to say yes lets go...and I plan on being able to do so.
I do not believe in what I see as pointless tests when the problem is obvious. Since my doctor won't try the medicines I have read about here with out them I will work with the calcium. ( I think the calcium may work because milk seems to calm my tummy more than upset it)
I have shared my story because I have read that alot of women find out the gallstone problem through a pregnancy and I believe many share the same feelings as I do. Some people seem willing to make sacrifices food wise for comfort, I say we shouldn't have to. I understand moderation. And I realize I may sound ignorant to many people because I am not willing to be tested for other problems and I am not willing to compromise.
I'm to a point in my life that my marriage is failing. I've been married for 6 years and now it is all falling apart and the thought of starting over has me scared. I have gotten so comfortable with my husband who knows if I start the mad dash he better step out of the way that I have recently realized....I don't want to explain why I can't do certain things with new friends or meeting someone new in the future. I don't want to feel prisoner to my body anymore.
So while i know this is long. I share my story because I would like to know if anyone else shares my thoughts or feelings, and also because if there is someone else out there who has been afraid to express the same thoughts that they may know they are not alone.

Finally, I strongly believe that more research should be done into this issue. It is life changing for many people and we tend to get labeled as it "all being in our heads" or as having IBS or it being passed of as nothing major. We live with this everyday of our lives, it affects us in many ways, therefore it is, or should be important. Our doctors should pay more attention to the things we tell them. (When I talked to my doctor about it...several actually, they wanted to put me on depression meds.....That to me does not treat the problem it hides it. Depression doesn't cause the D the D affecting so much of my life causes the depression....find a fix for that which allows me to have my life back and the depression would take care of itself....but what do I know....I didnt go to school for years on end to help people....or to make tons of money...depending on how you look at it)

finenow
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 35
   Posted 3/3/2011 5:39 PM (GMT -6)   
If your doctor will not prescribe cholestramine then go to another doctor. This medicine saved my life. I know what you are going through and I feel for you. Please go another doctor. This medicine will change your life.

Macha
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 3/3/2011 5:41 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm taking a vacation in a few weeks so I had to find something that will work fast....sharing a hotel room with a friend who doesn't know terrifies me right now....and I don't want to have to tell them. I can't handle the teasing anymore.

finenow
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 35
   Posted 3/3/2011 6:54 PM (GMT -6)   

Like I said go to a new doctor if you want help.

This medicine helps you in about 3 days.


finenow
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 35
   Posted 3/4/2011 12:02 AM (GMT -6)   

Macha: I just had a thought, something that will help you  on your  vacation. When I didn't know what was wrong and I taking alot of tests our family went to Mexico for a week. I was so scared to fly, because of D. My doctor told me to take Immodium. So I did.

You have to figure out how many will work for you but he told me I could take 8 a day with no worries.  The only thing is that you will get constipated.  Yahaaaaaaa....Just kidding. It saved my holiday and I did very well.  Good luck to you.


shawn12
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1293
   Posted 3/4/2011 8:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Macha

with the d do you get pain or discomfort in the lower abdomen?
IBS Forum Moderator


I am not a doctor. All information I present is for educational purposes only and should not be subsituted for the advise of a qualified health care provider.

Please make sure you have your symptoms diagnosed by a medical practitioner or a doctor.

shawn12
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1293
   Posted 3/4/2011 8:08 PM (GMT -6)   
No hello Linda? ;)

Its Shawn Eric
IBS Forum Moderator


I am not a doctor. All information I present is for educational purposes only and should not be subsituted for the advise of a qualified health care provider.

Please make sure you have your symptoms diagnosed by a medical practitioner or a doctor.

Macha
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 3/5/2011 10:31 AM (GMT -6)   
No pain at all ever. Just the annoyance of having to go. Gluten seems to have no effect on my body either as i eliminated all from my diet for a month with no changes other than it getting worse with meats or any oil.

I have been taking the caltrate plus D since my first post and all seems better so far. I had fried chicken and pizza yesterday with no problems at all!

Linda, I wish to avoid lifetime prescriptions as long as possible. see I'm in my mid 20's meaning having to go to a doctor every three months for a check up and to get a new prescription. thats an extra 60 dollars 4 times a year $240 a year isn't worth it nor is it in my budget even with my insurance. This is what they made me do for the acid reflux to get nexium. i had enough and now that prevacid is over the counter I can control it on my own for far less money.

finenow
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 35
   Posted 3/5/2011 10:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Nice to hear you are getting things under contol.
Keep Immodium in your pocket for the times when
you need it. You an buy it over the counter. I am in
Canada, where are you from.

Macha
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 3/5/2011 12:45 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm from the states. I the the equate version of Imodium...not sure what the difference is if any but the equate seemed to work better and faster.

wingedjoker
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 3/9/2011 7:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Calcium isn't the best option for me, as the lack of magnesium gives me terrible headaches with the stomach issues (calcium depletes mag). I get the headaches even when my stomach doesn't feel so bad. So now I am trying Bile Acids and a high protein diet (lowfat like South Beach), along with magnesium supplements. I also take Betaine HCL and a liver support product. I haven't been back to see the gastro since my surgery because he moved away from my area.

On thing that might help is smoothies with apple pectin. It's a type of fiber that bulks up the diarrhea. One of my friends is a chef and suggested it in place of psyllium fiber.

I will have to try the Equate version. I think that's the Walmart brand. Immodium usually doesn't work until the next day for me unless I just take it every day.
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