Constipated Diarrhoea

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Faerun
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Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 11/30/2005 2:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Does anyone have this probably??
 
When you try to go to the toilet you can't go but when you finally manage to with perserverence you have diarrhoea.
 
Or am I just peculiar lol

Keriamon
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Date Joined Jun 2005
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   Posted 11/30/2005 2:53 PM (GMT -7)   
When I was having gall bladder problems I would sometimes be constipated and then have a bout of diarrhea right after it. I figured it's because I tend to be a bit constipated a lot of the time anyways, so there I was, a little blocked up, but then the bile came along with whatever I ate and made that really loose, so once I had passed the hard stool, out came the loose one.

7Lil
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   Posted 11/30/2005 3:08 PM (GMT -7)   
It happens to me every now and then. Strange. I just assume it is one of the "perks" of having both IBS-C and IBS-D.
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Faerun
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Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 11/30/2005 3:13 PM (GMT -7)   

glad i'm not the only one lol :)

odd you mentioned about the gallbladder attacks keri as i suspect i may have those probs although peeps always seem to have double over can't do anything pain which i don't get mine is more chronic as opposed to acute

i'm thankful i haven't had a bad attack for a while now although i do sometimes doubt myself and think i have imagined it all when i don't get the symptoms



Keriamon
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   Posted 12/1/2005 11:14 AM (GMT -7)   
I got the acute pain attacks, but towards the end I just hurt a little all of the time on my right side. It felt like there was a lump there, just in under the ribs. That's a classic symptom.

Faerun
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Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 12/1/2005 1:53 PM (GMT -7)   
one particular incident i remember lasted about a week and a half started off on monday with a heavy dull ache around the diaphragm area  wasn't relieved by paracetemol and codeine i was so drained i was also getting dizzy spells by friday i started getting nausea and everytime i tried to eat anything i would have D this lasted about 4 days i was having waves of pain over GB area and around my back up into my right shoulder blade at times i felt like i was wearing a belt of pain i couldn't lay on my right side lost about 5 lb in weight the symptoms started to ease on monday but still had the heavy dull ache i started with but as i say it was never seriously acute, very similar to labour pains, coming and going. By wednesday i was well again. Well, as well as i ever was lol.

Keriamon
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Date Joined Jun 2005
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   Posted 12/1/2005 3:08 PM (GMT -7)   
Yep, sounds like a gall bladder. I hurt for years across my entire diaphram (but mostly in the center) and the doctors all told me, "that can't be your gall bladder because it only hurts on the right side." Goof balls. What about that pain I had into my right shoulder? What about having every other symptom? Even my mother, a nurse, knew that pain radiates. She had me diagnosed within a few weeks of my starting to have attacks.

I probably misused the word "accute" above. I was thinking strong or intense when I think it properly means pinpoint. More a stabbing pain than an ache. I definitely ached. Ached so badly I couldn't stand up straight during an attack. And, like you said, it comes in waves. Badbadbad, livelivelive, badbadbad. Even now, after it's gone, if I eat something that triggers the bile, I'll have diarrhea urges and cramps in waves. Gogogo, relaxrelaxrelax, gogogo. I've learned to one, use the bathroom two or three times to help keep the pain from being so frequent, then hold out. Because after two or three trips, there is little left to expel and it doesn't make you feel any better at that point. In fact, the burning from it can actually make you feel even worse for having gone. Of course I have medicine I can take that will stop the bile and it takes 30 minutes to go fully into effect, so if I take it when I get "the twinge" and I go three times, enough time will have passed after the medicine to allow me to hold on--I'll hurt less and hurt less often until it goes away completely. And then I'm usually good to go for the rest of the day. On the rare occassions where I haven't completely stopped needing to go after 30 minutes, then I'll take another pill. That will fix it up.

If they can't find stones or sludge, then you are probably dysfunctional for some reason, like me. My mother's gall bladder was dysfunctional because it malformed. Mine just didn't work sometimes for some reason. When it was analysed after they took it out, it was diagnosed as being "chronically inflamed." My theory is that my liver, for whatever reason, produces too much bile sometimes and it overwhelmed the storage capcity of my gall bladder--it tried shoving more bile in when it was already full and/or tried to push it in when it was trying to come out (the bile duct is two-way). The reason why I suspect this is because I work the exact same way as I did when I had a gall bladder, only without the horrible pain and pretty much without nausea. But if I consume a trigger food, here comes the bile all at once, just like old times. So I don't think it was my gall bladder that was dumping all of the bile at once--it was the liver providing too much.

You need a hida scan to test for function. It's not too bad a test. They give you an injection of radioactive stuff and put you up on a table under a camera after so many minutes. When the radioactive "dye" has settled suffciently in your gall bladder, they will give you an injection to make your gall bladder empty. That can be nauseating even for people with a good gall bladder. For people with a bad gall bladder, you will find it very uncomfortable to be laying on your back during this test. If you have a weak stomach, you may even vomit. Be sure to warn the tech if you feel that coming on. I had it done three times and kept my stomach down all three times, but I wouldn't eat soon beforehand if I were you. I've heard, though, that some people aren't bothered by it.

If you can't find anyone to schedule the test for you or it comes back negative (mine did twice--but I wasn't in the middle of having pain or an attack when it was done--I figure my gall bladder was actually working correctly at the moment which is why it didn't show up), then try going on a very low fat diet. That can help your symptoms since fat is what triggers the release of the bile. Beware that a low fat diet can cause constipation, though. You have to really look to your fiber and prune juice and the like. Also, I found caffeine was a major trigger. Alcohol and carbonation can make it worse too.

Faerun
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Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 19
   Posted Yesterday 1:51 AM (GMT -7)   

thank you so much for you help cool i will try to go on a low fat diet its not easy these days lol but it does help i can't eat processed foods cos of MSG but i am a cheese addict funnily enough though fat doesn't tend to cause problems on its own its certain kinds of foods which trigger it the above attack happened when i was on an anti candida and wheat/gluten free diet.  I do drink coffee i find it hard to function without it but this attack also happened when i was on a caffeine free diet only drinking herbal teas.  I'm scared to eat certain stuff incase it triggers a bad attack again.

 

I will have to see about the hida scan the dr may be reluctant to refer me as i have been quite well for a while, maybe i have to be rushed to hospital in an ambulance before they do anything

 

My mum had her GB removed 4 years ago and she was like me fat wasn't an issue it was certain foods like pastry and bananas which killed her.


Keriamon
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Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 2976
   Posted Yesterday 12:57 PM (GMT -7)   
Well I know I found a link for me between caffeine and gall bladder attacks because I would sometimes hurt in my shoulder before I had even finished my drink. And I can drink one one day and have bile poop the next, even though I've not changed my diet in any other way. But while certain foods are typical triggers, not everyone is the same. When my gall bladder was on a real tear, EVERYTHING made me sick!

The thing about dysfunctional gall bladders is that sometimes they work. Cheese may not bother you today, but tomorrow it may be the thing that puts you over the edge. I drank cokes and would be fine and then I would drink cokes and be sick. They're still a trigger even if they don't trigger me every time. It's kind of like playing Russian roulette. A bullet is a bullet regardless of whether it's in the active chamber or not. If you spin the cylinder and it comes up....

Herbal teas can contain caffeine. I can tolerate the limited caffeine in green tea but not that in regular black tea (I think it's properly pekoke, but I can't remember--anyways, it's what we weird Americans--specifically Southern ones--drink cold with meals). When I still had a gall bladder, I wouldn't touch anything that had any caffeine in it at all. I even checked medicine bottles for it. That helped some, but it never cured the problem, of course.

I found out about the low-fat diet after I had my gall bladder out. You may not respond as well to it with it still in. I was taking Welchol everyday to prevent bile problems, but when I started counting calories and going low-fat, I stopped taking my medicine; I didn't need it anymore. Even after I got off my diet, I stayed fairly good--avoiding fried foods and chips (crisps) and the like--for about a year and I stayed off my medicine, unless I was going to eat something particularly bad like fried chicken or pizza. I've been back on it now since about August and I'm finally getting straightened back out again. I've dropped the calcium supplements and am still going fine.

Make sure your doctor knows that your mother had her gall bladder removed. GB disease runs in families.

Faerun
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Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 19
   Posted Today 5:54 AM (GMT -7)   

i don't know whether or not to push for the hida scan or just wait until it gets so bad i'm rushed to hospital in an ambulance lol

i haven't had an attack for months until last night i had fried egg chips (french fries) and baked beans haven't had that combo for ages well it started - bloated while i was still eating gurgling and gas within minutes of finishing eating radiating pain all over upper half of my abdomen but no specific area pain in the right side of my back hiccups and burps which i don't get with my IBS as i have IBS attacks regularly but don't get the hiccups and burps well lets just say i am not eating that again :) teaches me for getting lazy on a friday night.  Hopefully i escaped the worst of it not feeling too bad today no bloating or gas just discomfort under the right side of my ribs today :) which i can live with.

 

thanks keri for sharing your experiences with me and the advice you have given me and thanks to the others for helping with this issue :) i just need to now decide what steps i need to take. I'm not a pushy person but maybe i'm gonna need to get assertive. I'm just too tired to care sometimes :(


7Lil
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Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 3269
   Posted Today 11:36 AM (GMT -7)   
Faerun, you don't usually have flatulance, burping or bloating???  Maybe it is your gallbladder then.  I would push for the scan.
Good luck!
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flybullseye
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Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 139
   Posted Today 2:44 PM (GMT -7)   
Keriamon,

Well, I was supposed to have this hida scan done on my gallbladder but now that you said it's quite nauseating, I don't think I'm going to do it!! You have scared me out of it! I'm super scared of throwing up!!! I have that vomit phobia (Emetophobia) and I cannot just walk in willingly to do a test that could probably make me throw up!!!

Forget that mess!! I will just keep my (potentially) non-functioning gallbladder!!

Michelle :)

Faerun
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 19
   Posted Today 3:27 PM (GMT -7)   
7Lil said...
Faerun, you don't usually have flatulance, burping or bloating???  Maybe it is your gallbladder then.  I would push for the scan.
Good luck!

 when i have an IBS attack i do get the flatulence but not the burping or hiccups or pain in my back so you are probably right.
 
IMO even if all the test come back negative the dr should have sent me for thorough testing not just presuming with out ticking everything off the list

dbab
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   Posted Today 5:28 PM (GMT -7)   
Michelle, you may want to at least find out if there are any gallstones which they can usually find in an ultrasound which is not invasive at all. Gallstones can give be dangerous if you get one lodged so you may want to at least rule that out. My hubby had gallstones and they found them through an ultrasound only, no hida scan was needed.
Hugs, Des
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flybullseye
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Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 139
   Posted Today 7:10 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey dbab!
They already did the ultrasound and it came back "perfectly normal" according to the general physician. GI guy wants to do the hida scan. Don't know why, I guess he just wants something to hang onto. FORGET IT!! Not if I can potentially vomit!!! He didn't say anything about that to me at all. He said I wouldn't even know they were putting that stuff in me. He's a LIAR!!! LOL!!

Michelle :)

dbab
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 4151
   Posted Today 9:31 PM (GMT -7)   
I understand your fear especially with your emetophobia. He probably didn't say anything because he probably isn't the one that performs it (I'm just guessing) or he didn't want to scare you, who knows. I never had it so I can't tell you personal experience. I don't have a fear of vomiting but I don't like to do it all and I'm sure I would even be hesitant to do the test myself.
Hugs, Des
Co-Moderator ~ IBS Forum
 
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Keriamon
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Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 2976
   Posted 12/5/2005 8:50 AM (GMT -7)   
Like I said, I had three hida scans and never vomited. I don't think that most people do, but if you have a weak stomach, I would think you would be more likely to do it. If you are have a fear of vomiting, however (I certainly don't like to do it!) then you probably have a very strong stomach and are in good control of it and won't vomit. My stepfather said some of the patient's response had to do with how the tech administered the drug. My stepfather always did it a little squirt every 30 seconds to a minute, to keep from overwhelming anybody. The first tech I had was not my stepfather and he gave it all at once and it made me feel sicker. But it doesn't last a real long time, that feeling. 5 minutes or so at the most from the time it starts to the time it tapers off. It doesn't come on you strong and all at once. The worst part of it was having to stay laying down. If I could have sat up and walked around, then it may not have bothered me at all. But bad gall bladders are notorious for making you feel worse when you lie flat on your back. Maybe someone will take that into account one day and make it where you can stand up against the wall and have the camera film you. All in all I think the test takes about 30 minutes and with the prep (gettting a line in, waiting for the radiodactive dye to settle) it takes 45 minutes to an hour. So of that you're uncomfortable about 5 minutes. Not bad, really. And if they find it is your gall bladder and they get it out, it makes it very worth your while. No more pain! And drugs to treat the bile! Definitely worth the tradeoff.

Fly, if you have a bad gall bladder and haven't vomited yet, you probably will. I did once or twice, and I was an exception to the rule. Most people who suffer from gall bladder disease for a while will end up vomiting more often than I did. Some people are even vomit-predominent (I was diarrhea-predominant). And it's worse than vomiting when you are sick with the flu or food poisioning because it's full of bile and that stuff burns so bad! Your esophagus and the back of your throat will feel scorched for a day or more and no amount of water or milk will help it. So better to risk the test and hopefully get a diagnosis than to keep a bad gall bladder and suffer. And if your gall bladder isn't the problem, then the test probably won't bother you.

I bet, Faerun, those beans did you in more than your chips. Those can do regular people in. Personally, I found that my flatulence dropped off significantly when I had my gall bladder problem. I would get gas-like cramps but couldn't burp or pass gas. Man the times I wished I could! It just felt hung up in there. But some people do get indigestion and belch a lot from it, so it's one of those variables.

If I were you, I would push for the test, because you really do sound like you have a problem. Since I had a couple of tests come back inconclusive/negative because I had them done when I wasn't having a problem, I would either 1, schedule the test when you're in a bad streak or 2, cause yourself to have a bad streak. A day or two before the test, just eat all of those things that bother you. The greasiest fish and chips you can find, cokes and beers and fizzy water, pizza with extra cheese--you name it. Get yourself torn up, then go in. Hopefully your gall bladder will show up as bad, you can have it out and you can go on with life. If it doesn't show up while you're in the midst of having intestinal fits, then you can just about rule out gall bladder disease and chalk it up to IBS. Either way you should know for certain what problem you have, so hopefully making yourself sick on purpose won't have been in vain.

If I knew 8 years ago what I know now, I would have made myself sick before having my first hida scan. Because I wasn't in the middle of an attack and it came back negative, I suffered needlessly for four more years. If I had it to do over again, I would not hesitate to make myself sick in the pursuit of getting the tests to come up positive. That's how bad it was for me over those next four years. I have cautioned other people about caffeine, fat, etc. and so many of them will say, "Oh, I can't live without my pot of coffee everyday." And without malice or sarcasam I tell them, "Well, then, you're just not that sick." Because if they were bad sick, they'd drop anything in the pursuit to be pain and diarrhea free. Me, I once was a 2-liter-a-day coke drinker. When I figured out that it was the caffeine making my gall bladder worse, I dropped caffeine like a hot potato. Gave up cokes, gave up tea, sometimes even avoided chocolate. I didn't miss those 2am attacks with diarrhea and horrible pain. I hurt bad enough to give up just about anything.

And on a final note, if this problem really is your gall bladder, it won't go away. You'll be okay for a while, then you'll be sick again. It will just keep happening and the length of time you stay sick will generally increase and it may manifest itself in new and unpleasant ways.
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