IBS - Gallbladder.

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*Tanqueray*
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Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 6
   Posted 4/20/2007 12:30 PM (GMT -7)   
I spent the day at the Dr's office waiting for scripts and to go about my way without knowing much. Turns out my Dr. had some concerns and thinks my problems may be due to a Gallbladder issue. He didn't have time to go into it but ordered a Nuclear testing, the iodine and scanning to check my gallbladder.
 
I don't understand how the gallbladder affects the IBS, and I want to understand how that works or is related and if removing it as he said, would actually fix everything and give me a normal life. I'm not optimistic because this could just be severe IBS with diarrhea, and a lifelong struggle with medications. Bright side is that I did get medications and some new ones today to help me and I'm SO excited about that.
 
ANY help or information regarding IBS, Gallbladder etc..Let me know!!
 
Ames

Keriamon
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Date Joined Jun 2005
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   Posted 4/20/2007 1:53 PM (GMT -7)   
If your problem is your gall bladder, then you don't have IBS. IBS has no known cause. Also, I'm afraid the "lifelong struggle with medications" is actually a bit optimistic. At the moment, there is no medicine to cure IBS. Imodium and calcium for diarrhea, teas and antacids and anti-gas pills for gas, some antispasmodics for cramping, and some pain pills for pain... that's about all there is out there for IBS-D. Most people find that these things don't take care of 100% of their stomach problems. So yes, there's a struggle, but it's actually a struggle WITHOUT medications, as opposed to with them. What all did your doctor prescribe you? I can tell you right now, an antispasmodic won't help a bad gall bladder (been there, done that).

Your liver produces bile and sends it up the bile duct into the gall bladder, which stores it until you eat something. When food hits your stomach (or somewhere around that time), the gall bladder excretes enough bile to help break down your food (the more fat you eat, the more bile you need). Your food moves on down into your intestines and your liver puts some more bile up into the gall bladder.

There are several reasons why your gall bladder can stop functioning correctly. One reason are stones. These are just like kidney stones, but they form from bile, not calcium. No one is really sure what makes them form, although some people have blamed them on high cholesterol (I know people who have had stones who are thin and in perfect health, so I don't buy that). More often than not, genetics plays a large part: if someone else in your family has had stones or other gall bladder problems, you probably will too. And, like any disease, the more family members who have had that problem, the more likely you are to have it too.

In addition to stones, there is "sludge". This is when the bile grows thick and gritty, like wet sand, but doesn't form into stones. You can also be born with a too-small or misshapen gall bladder, or you can just have one that refuses to function correctly for no particular reason. The latter is what happened in the case of mine. For whatever reason, it kept getting inflamed and would dump all of my bile out at once instead of just what I needed, and would frequently do so even when I hadn't eaten, so there wasn't even any food in my system to help absorb some of the bile.

Stones most frequently wind up blocking the bile duct (just like kidney stones get stuck coming out of the kidney) and they cause massieve amounts of pain. Unlike kidney stones, however, they don't seem to pass out of the bile duct on their own accord. Some will, but most don't seem to. Keeping the bile backed up behind it can lead to infection and stones are usually the number one cause of emergency gall bladder removals. Sludge, on the other hand, empties from the gall bladder more slowly and can cause problems with food digestion and can also block the bile duct when the liver is trying to put more bile in.

So, in short, a bad gall bladded causes pain, and excess bile or badly timed bile release can cause diarrhea, vomiting, acid reflux, and nausea. A lot of people also find that they feel more sick when they lie down (when it's acting up), they feel full to the point of being sick, even after only a few bites of a meal, and they may get pains in their chest, especially into and down the right arm. Chills and sweats both are common when having an attack. Occasionally people may actually experience constipation, although I reckon 9 out of 10 people or more will have D instead.

Removing your gall bladder will not fix all of your problems; don't let your doctor tell you that it will. Most people without a gall bladder continue to have diarrhea, trouble digesting certain foods, and/or acid reflux. However, I can definitely say that my diarrhea is not as bad as it used to be, especially since getting on Welchol, which absorbs my extra bile (doesn't work on most IBS-D because that is usually water-based D). Also, I never wake up in the middle of the night in excrutiating pain, sick as a dog, feeling like I'm going to die. Even though I'm not normal and never will be, I'm a LOT better than I was when I still had my GB. Some people don't adjust as well as I have, some people adjust better. One lady I worked with could eat more than I could and didn't have to take medicine for D problems, but even she would, once a year or two, get down with a lot of pain and diarrhea from it. My mother-in-law and great-aunt both used to have diarrhea every time they ate, regardless. They're both on Welchol now and both can eat fairly normally (still some things to avoid) and not get D. I've never met a person who was normal after GB surgery (my mother's pretty close, although she has somewhat bad acid reflux from hers), but there was one person who came on here and who said she knew one person who was just fine. So one person out of a collective 20 or 25 I'd think, so there are your odds.

I don't regret having mine out, though. In fact, I was begging to have it out. I lived with horrible attacks, plus random nausea and diarrhea for 5 years. My quality of life has definitely gone up since then. Some people don't have problems as severe or as frequent as mine, so they might actually feel worse after having it out. However, it's my experience (and the medical community's stance) that they will get worse over time. So if you're not pretty bad right now, you may want to leave it in until it gets so bad it can only get better if you take it out. Makes it feel more justified that way, I think.

7Lil
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Date Joined Apr 2005
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   Posted 4/20/2007 2:13 PM (GMT -7)   

This may help you differentiate:  The Definitive Guide to Gall Bladder Disease


Co-Moderator for the IBS Forum
 
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*Tanqueray*
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 6
   Posted 4/20/2007 10:14 PM (GMT -7)   
I was given Phenegren for nausea, Bentyl for the stomach cramping and Levsin/SL for diarrhea breakthroughs. I'm positive it is IBS, I've had this for a very long time and it has progressed but never really got any better. Medications don't always help but I cannot go a day without Bentyl. I have all the classic IBS-D symtoms, problem is my cramping leaves me bed rest a lot when I'm having a really bad flare up. The bloating and the gas has worsened and makes for a lot of discomfort when you have severe abdominal cramping and diarrhea.
I'm going to have the nuclear testing done to check the gallbladder but in no way do I feel that it will fix anything, I hope that it will improve things if it is removed. My doctor isn't a specialist so it's hard for him to really give me great information or facts about this but he did feel that it could be my gallbladder, so I'll amuse him with the Nuclear.
Stress really sets off bad spells, I don't know what to do about that yet. Trying to continue modifying my diet, figuring out what triggers things and how to reduce stress.
ames

traceofmoon
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Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 4/28/2007 1:53 PM (GMT -7)   
Hello, I am a new member and wanted to say that I have IBS with constipation. I take medicines for it to control the cramps, and there are times they can get quite severe that I have to lay down. I have to constantly watch my diet and also on occassions take a natural laxitive. If I do not, the pain is unbearable.

I also have acid reflux and had the NFund wrap done three years ago. My doctor only did 2/3rds of a wrap. It was fine for the first two years and then I started having break through acid and excessive bloating. I had thought that the wrap had come undone. However, my doctor went down and took a look and said it was fine. This reflux, extreme bloating, nausea started about 4 months ago. I was sick with nausea just about every day. I had no pain or vomiting so did not think that it was gall bladder until my doctor suggested I have a HIDA Scan with fraction ejection. I had this on April 26th a few days ago. The radiologist did a one hour scan and when the gall bladder did not show up as it was suppose to, she stopped and took the information back to the doctor who was in charge of the radiology. She said that my gall bladder was not visable on the screen because the Cystic duct was blocked. That was the reason for the extreme bloating that I was having. I am now on practically a non-fat diet, and at this time I am only eating vegetables, fruit, soup, oatmeal, and bland items until I have surgery. I always ate a low fat diet most of the time, and I am sure after surgery, I will continue to eat well. I am going to see my surgeon this Tuesday, May 2. I am sure he will schecule me for surgery. I almost did not want to have the HIDA scan done, as I never suspected gall bladder problems. I am so glad I did. Now I know why I have been so miserable. So we will see what happens and I will post again at a later date.

Keriamon
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Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 2976
   Posted 5/1/2007 9:11 AM (GMT -7)   
Good luck, Trace. A lady I work with said that it took them a while to find her gall bladder problem: her GB was so full of stones that it was solid with them, so they weren't seeing them on the ultrasound. When they finally did a HIDA scan on her, it did like yours: none of the radioactive dye went into it.

mercyme
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 5/3/2007 9:15 AM (GMT -7)   
 
 
  sad Oh my you seem to really have had the worst of it.  I just went to my doctor on May 1st with complaints of sever bloating right after a meal, I mean I could just eat a small meal and then bam!  I can't eat alot of things I use to,they kill my stomach.  I have alot of excessive gas and my stomach rumples alot from the gas, it's really painful, not to metion the sever constipation problem.  I had dignosised myself with IBS she did some blood work, I'm waiting on the results of that which she is suppose to call me back today about that and we will go from there.  She mentioned that it could be my gall bladder, I never thought about it before. and it could other things too I guess.
 
    Well I wish you the very best, let's hope I get good news today.
 
    God Bless,
 
    Mercyme/Cindy  :-)

Keriamon
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Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 2976
   Posted 5/3/2007 11:51 AM (GMT -7)   
Cindy, feeling stuffed after eating a very small amount of food is very typical of a bad gall bladder. Mine did that to me. Definitely press for the Hida scan. Diarrhea is more common with it, but sometimes you get a lack of bile flow which causes constipation (I've always had too much bile flow, so I get D).

But it could also be "just" IBS, as you mentioned. Some people just swell up with gas for no good reason after eating. Make sure to also get a breathalyzer test to see if you have a build-up of bad bacteria causing the excess gas. If it's not available in your area (it's still a bit new), then you might can get your doctor to try you on some strong antiobiotics on the off chance they work. If you get better when on the antibiotics, then bad bacteria is probably your problem. Hit the probiotics hard to help buid good bacteria back up again; it can be really hard to get rid of the bad.

traceofmoon
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 5/3/2007 12:40 PM (GMT -7)   
This is an update to my post on 4/28/2007. I am scheduled for gall bladder surgery on May 7th. I have one of the best Laproscopic surgeons in the country. He also trains other doctors and is very well known in the Tampa Bay tri city area. He also did my NFund wrap too. He is highly skilled and trained in his field. So, Monday a.m. will the the date for the surgery. He told me it only takes 15 minutes and I go home the same day. Wow! Medical science is fantastic! I have talked to many people and they all say it is the best thing they did and feel so much better after. Of course, one has to understand that animal fats and the other bad fats must be watched after gall bladder removal. We all know that limiting bad fats in our diet is a very healthy way to eat. Will post again later and will also read new post too.


Beverly

Post Edited (traceofmoon) : 5/3/2007 1:38:22 PM (GMT-6)


olivia of course
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 1523
   Posted 5/3/2007 1:08 PM (GMT -7)   

Beverly,

I had my gall bladder removed through Laproscopic surgery about 5 years ago, and I am doing well.  It was a little scary to think about the procedure, but it is a quick and very fast recovery.

It was definetly painful to get up and lay down a for about 4 days, but that was the only thing that I found unpleasant.  Oh, I almost forgot for a while your body might reject food (I don't miss this part, too many trips to the BR), no matter the fat content.  But that too goes away, your body has to get used to life without the gall bladder.

Yes, I do have to what how much fat I eat, but it was worth it compared to the consequences of not having the procedure.

Best Wishes!  :-)


@~ Olivia

"What is life? An illusion, a shadow, a story,
And the greatest good is little enough:
for all life is a dream, and dreams themselves are only dreams."
~ Pedro Calderon de la Barca, Life is a Dream


mercyme
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 5/3/2007 2:48 PM (GMT -7)   
I'm glad to hear that most of you have found out what was causing your pain. The nurse did not call me back today. So I am hoping she will call me back tomorrow (friday) or else I will have to wait until Monday May 7th. I have been dealing with this stomach problem for over 6 months, I just didn't go to the doctor until now, because I didn't think it was anything serious. I've just been taking alot of anti gas supplements, which don't really help with the gas or bloating after I eat.

I'm getting ready to go on vacation right after my daughter's wedding next weekend which is Mother's day weekend. I'm hoping that the whole time I'm gone I won't be in pain. you know how it is when you go on vacation everyone wants to eat out and try different foods, and I will have to be a party "pooper" lol but oh well, I know if I don't watch what I eat I will have a terrible time.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my first post, you are very kind.

Many Blessings,

Cindy4hope

Keriamon
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Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 2976
   Posted 5/3/2007 3:14 PM (GMT -7)   
If your doctor is one of the best, then I won't question his 15 minute assessment, but mine surgeon was very good and my procedure took a bit longer than that. 30 minutes, I think, for the actual operation. Maybe a bit longer. I know when I got my tubes tied, that was done in 20 minutes and I was wide awake in recovery and chatting about my impending wedding. I walked out of the hospital and to our car. The gall bladder, though, took longer, so I didn't recover from the anasthesia as quickly; I woke up groggy in the recovery room, went back to sleep, woke up in a room, talked to my mother for a minute or two, then went back to sleep. I woke up again later and was able to go home then, but I was much more sore and it took longer to go away. Of course, in one surgery I had an organ cut out and pulled down through my body cavity, whereas with the tubal, nothing got pulled out and the tubes were right there.

I was reading in Slate magazine that doctors are now trying to remove organs through orifices in order to prevent a lot of the abdominal muscle pain in revocery. One woman had her gall bladder removed through her vagina and another person their appendix through their mouth. I'm still scratching my head over that one; looks like you'd do the gall bladder through the mouth since it's on that end and the appendix through the vagina. I think they can do them through the rectum too. They've also just tried removing a brain tumor through the nose. So you may be one of the last people to have your gall bladder removed through your belly button and to have the accompanying scars. (I'd let them take an organ out through the mouth, but I don't know about the vagina; what if you get scar tissue in there that messes you up?)

mercyme
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 5/3/2007 3:53 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow! Keriamon that sounds almost impossible that the could remove those organs in those ways, but we know with advance technology now they can do almost anything. I had brain surery in 2002 but they opened up my skull that's okay, I know they got a good look and took what they needed and got out of there. I'm doing great since the surgery Praise the Lord! no seizures since then, God is good! now to fix my little problems.

Cindy :)

Keriamon
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 2976
   Posted 5/4/2007 7:38 AM (GMT -7)   
Wow, I didn't know they had a way to fix seizures through brain surgery. I guess it depends on what's causing them? If they could do brain surgery on me through my nose or the roof of my mouth, I'd certainly let them; I know opening the skull is a really big event. The first thing I thought about, though, when I read that was how things have come full circle; the Egyptians used to work on the brain through the nose. Of course, they were pulling it out after you died, but they did at least prove that you could go through the nose to get to the brain. And I guess, in terms of a paroscopic surgery, the nose is really not any smaller than the belly button.

Ali123
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2014
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 1/27/2014 1:14 PM (GMT -7)   
I am so happy to share this I trust you will be encouraged. Ah! Where to begin?? I struggled with life altering IBS-C for 18 years. When I say struggle, I mean it had altered my daily life. Couldn't even work full time. I've had depression, pain, pain, and more pain. Constant stomach problems. Vomiting. Wicked migraines, and other related issues.

Then the GB problems started 9 months ago. I had a horrid attack seemingly out of nowhere. No idea what happened. ER doctor sent me to GI. Attacks over next six months. Ultrasound, X-rays, then a upper GI scope, then gastric emptying study, then HIDA. Following the HIDA with CCK GB was found at 23%. GI doctor says surgery only option. Almost holidays so I vow to eat zero sat fat and schedule in the new year.

Following my HIDA and CCK in October I then had IBS attacks daily for nine days straight. Was passing out from pain. Couldn't get out of bed. No meds would help. Desperate. After NINE days straight I couldn't take it anymore. This is where after 6 months of GB problems I refocused on my IBS.

Why? Because I realized the CCK is what set off my IBS and there had to be a relationship. That's when my situation in aggregate hit me: I couldn't leave my bathroom, let alone my house. Mom of three littles. Overweight. Tired. Don't do more exercise than cleaning and caring for family. Constantly sick. Just a horrid existence. As I sat on the toilet vomiting and having an IBS attack it hit me all of this is related. Not my doctor but I needed to take control of my own health. Since I didn't have gallstones, pain was my only issue.

That's when I decided to get a hold of my IBS. All the Rx meds either try and improve motility or suppress spasms. Neither is working for me. So I sought to do my own natural approach. Worse case I would schedule surgery in new year after all.

First, I added Psyllium husk fiber and WATER an hour before I ate in the AM. I added lemon to room temp water. I hate water. One glass before and after dose of fiber capsules (NOW brand). Then I added a high quality (Klaire labs) probiotic and took one at bedtime on empty stomach. Then I added chelated magnesium mineral capsules 2 at a time every couple of days until I started to have softer bowel movements. I take 4 in AM and 4 in PM. Back off if you get really bad diarreha (that's the only side affect). I started having a normal BM 3 times a day! Then I added a ton of Vit C 2000 at every meal and before bed to help heal my colon because my toilet was always filled with the mucosal lining. In two weeks, I was better! That means...I could get up and love and leave my house without fear of pain.

Now that constipation was massively improving, I added a multi vitamin NO IRON. My energy was going up. This was right at Christmas. I next added high quality organic Greek yogurt low fat (wallaby brand). No GB reaction to fat when I couldn't even look at sat fat w/o attack a month before...11 hours of severe GB pain previous.

I couldn't believe it!!! I increased my probiotic to treat my diagnosed GERD from upper endoscopy and now it is is no longer painful so I ditch my Costco sized double pack Zantac. No more tums chasers, either.

Then, after all of this I read a doctor at Johns Hopkins says GB's release bile at different rates daily. My EF ratio one day can be totally different the next and the EF isn't a reason to remove GB! JH is number two GI researchers in the country. Also if you are backed up and constipated, he said GB can freak out trying to get food digested, but if IBS is stopping you up, it's not gonna help. He said IBS must be handled. I think I stumbled upon this because my CCK injection set off my insane IBS 9 day marathon of torture.

Remember I didn't have gallstones and they say that if you don't, it's 50-50 chance surgery will improve your pain. Not good enough for me. Without gallbladder, I'm at high risk for heart disease and colon cancer according to JH doctors article. I'm learning meds only suppress symptoms. Symptoms are perhaps the body's "idiot dash board light" that something is wrong. Meds to suppress and surgery to remove seems to me now to be crazy! I'm two months pain free. No GB pain. Eating normally again. Let me repeat: I AM EATING NORMALLY again. But, I'm also starting to eat more fiber and that means healthier so normal isn't my previous fast food carb happy diet. I have no GERD. No IBS. No migraines. My menstrual pain has dramatically improved (2 cycles of minimal cramps when I was previously diagnosed in 2000 with Endometriosis after a laparoscopy procedure). I am also a chronic sinus infection kid. Not one since I started this. I believe I was backed up and my body couldn't get nutrition.

I'm now losing weight. Just bought new shoes and I'm going to start the gentle walking program as the GI specialist at Johns Hopkins recommended for IBS. I'm doing it people and you can too. I cannot speak to those with gallstones.

Although were it me I'd get a loan and pay for that ultrasound therapy to break them up and then get my liver healthy.

Doctors face patients and have two choices: medicate or remove. We demand instant healing from them. They only have limited tools.

But if we put in effort to treat ourselves, and listen to what our body is saying, we can recover. I'm living proof. 18 years of IBS so severe I was often treated with morphine in ER. So many digestive problems. I now think it was a slow progression from not properly taking care of myself.

Well I want to suggest you try it another way. You can't get worse! You have value. You are important to people in your life and you deserve to live a fuller life with them. If you are like me you haven't been living and this is majorly affecting your life. Take it back!! I actually have energy again and am able to play with my kids (sniff-sniff). I want to encourage you it's possible to do this. I'm no one special, no medical degree, no overly health conscious person, and certainly very little knowledge of holistic measures. I'm not selling anything...I just walked into a vitamin/health store and started asking a lot of questions. It's working people.

Don't give up on your GB. I read a story of a woman who had no gallstones like me and had the GB surgery and the pain continued. Now she's at high risk for problems. It's there for a reason according to the JH doctor. I didn't want to give up something so easily I couldn't get back. Try what you can. I wish you good health. Finally, I wouldn't be completely honest if I didn't tell you I prayed for wisdom...it appears it worked for me. If anything changes I will repost and be honest. So far though I'm thanking The Lord (YHWH) for his help and healing!! Here's to no surgery!! Blessings

Post Edited (Ali123) : 1/27/2014 1:46:39 PM (GMT-7)


Ides
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   Posted 1/27/2014 6:32 PM (GMT -7)   
Welcome Ali123! You posted to a very old thread. Not sire how many people read your story. It is very interesting. Wanted to welcome you to Healing Well!
Moderator Crohn's disease, Osteoarthritis and Irritable Bowel Forums

CD, Ankylosing Spondylitis, small fiber peripheral neuropathy, avascular necrosis, peripheral artery disease, pulmonary hypertension, degenerative disc disease, asthma, severe allergy and a host of other medical problems.
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