Cause of Lupus 3

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ojibway
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 8/18/2008 7:34 AM (GMT -7)   
Hello Everyone who is listening,
You must forgive me for not replying in earnest to your threads, I had a bad weekend diarrahea and vomiting, its been off and on for about 2 years now. My digestive system is affected. Parasitic filarial nematode worms have infected you and me. The only antibody we seem to produce are anti-dsDNA antibodies. Can it be proven that these anitbodies are not autoantibodies. That they are not directed towards our DNA. I do not believe so. I do not believe the medical community can at present distinguish between foreign DNA or our DNA. The DNA of these worms is also double stranded. A smaller genome but still double stranded. The trouble is that the circulating DNA is not the full strand, it is a fragment. There is also the problem that the medical community believes that these antibodies are autoantibodies and they are not. This is know as common knowledge among their profession. It is in their textbooks. I am telling them the world is round, when they darn well know the world is flat. How do I tell scientists that their science is wrong. I only know of one way and that is tell them the truth. They can accept it or they cannot. MJLD no offence taken, I expect skeptism, as for technology that I posses that they do not. I do not posses anything, in fact, all I have is a rented microscope. But there is something that I do have that they do not and that is lupus, along with this though also comes the fact that I have not been inhibited with the facts of AI disorders. I have not been burdened with the limits to believe the facts as they are, I question them. I believe their is nothing wrong with our immune systems, I believe that there has to be a cause for all diseases. Point blank, a cause. This will be my last thread, you will not here from me for about a year. I am going to grow the plant that will kill these worms. That is what being a shaman is all about, no matter how many times I tell you what is causing your illness, you will not become better. Knowing the cause as well as the cure is the job of a shaman, and I am running out of time.


David
SLE 2002, pulmonary sarcoidosis, deep vein thrombosis, raynaud's
When you have eliminated the impossible, all that remains, however improbable, is the truth. 

Post Edited (ojibway) : 8/18/2008 11:20:46 AM (GMT-6)


Lynnwood
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 7023
   Posted 8/18/2008 7:45 AM (GMT -7)   
ojibway said...
This will be my last thread, you will not here from me for about a year. I am going to grow the plant that will kill these worms. I am running out of time.


At first reading, I thought this said "I am going to the planet that will kill these worms"....lupus fog!

Serina
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 431
   Posted 8/18/2008 4:09 PM (GMT -7)   

You will be missed Ojibwa man.  thank you again for sharing all that you have with us.  

I have the diarrhea to.  not so much the vomiting though.  I was so embarrassed one night, because it was the third day of the diarrhea, and I didn't even remember getting up.  so exhausted and weak from the diarrhea I guess.  I had to scrub the bathroom before anyone else got up the next morning.  feces everywhere.

Take care of yourself, and I look forward to hearing from you again.

Hester

The following was found on the admin advice to us.  I found no way there to thank the person who wrote this............so thought I would do it here.  This making a list of my symptoms on a daily basis is the best advice I have recieved in a long time.  I have it by my med, and update it as things change.  what started out as a sore in my mouth, seems to have followed a path to my neck and shoulder and arm.  Not sure I would ever have remembered this had someone not advised me to make this list to take to the doctor.  2 copies.  excellent advice.  Thank you so much for providing it.

* Keep a log of your symptoms and doctor visits including tests ordered, prescriptions ordered including dosage and doc' responses to your questions and his/her instructions to you

* Take a symptom report (list) and questions with you to all dr. visits


AlwaysRosie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 8616
   Posted 8/19/2008 5:33 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi David,

It would be easier to follow this topic if you kept it all together. I hope you'll consider keeping one topic going for this instead of starting a new one with each post.

Blessings!

In His Grip

AlwaysRosie           "We can't control the waves, but we can learn how to surf!!"

Psalms 139

Co-Moderator - Lupus Forum

UCTD, Inflammatory Arthritis, Diverticulosis, (recent dx - Sjogrens, Crohn’s 4/08)

Clickable Links:  Lupus Resources    Lupous.Org   Lupus Criteria (4 of 11)   Lupus Chapter Locator


AlwaysRosie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 8616
   Posted 8/19/2008 5:36 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Serina,

You may have found that advice in the Lupus Resources topic (link at the end of my signature). There really is some good stuff in there. And the symptom list is really helpful to me too. . . .

Blessings!

In His Grip

AlwaysRosie           "We can't control the waves, but we can learn how to surf!!"

Psalms 139

Co-Moderator - Lupus Forum

UCTD, Inflammatory Arthritis, Diverticulosis, (recent dx - Sjogrens, Crohn’s 4/08)

Clickable Links:  Lupus Resources    Lupous.Org   Lupus Criteria (4 of 11)   Lupus Chapter Locator


Butterflake
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 1551
   Posted 8/19/2008 7:20 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi David. Like you I believe that an infectious agent is involved with AI disorders, but I also believe there are genetic factors too. I don't know where you live, but nematodes that infect humans are quite rare in the United States. My personal guess is that prions are responsible in part for AI disorders. Good luck on your search for the worm cure, but don't forget that metronidozole kills parasites. Love, Butterflake
Dx: SLE ('05), depression, diabetes, fibromyalgia, gerd, sleep apnea, hypertension, IBS Tx: CellCept, plaquenil, prednisone, lisinopril, actos, lipitor, nexeum, prozac, seroquel, celebrex, actonel
prn: arthritis tylenol, neurontin, promethazine, ambien.  multi vit, C, flaxseed oil, acupuncture
Donna
 


ojibway
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 8/19/2008 11:27 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi listeners,
Doctors are currently relying heavily on the fact that genetics cause disease. This is false. Infectious agents cause disease, period. Genetics will dictate how we react to an infectious agent. Our genome dictates our behaviour, at the cellular level. Certain alleles will be active within a cell so the cell will be able to perform whatever its function is, the other alleles will be inactive. Our genome is a build up of hereditary traits that dictate are cellular behaviour. Nematode worms have been with our species for a very long time, it is a plague, we cannot shake it, because we do not have the medicine to kill them. According to internal medicine texts they can kill the worm. According to field reports from doctors who treat filariasis they can kill the microfilaria but not the worm, it is also believed this same medicine sterilizes the female worms. Because of this longevity of infection our species will have diversity of naturally implemented genetic code for fighting the parasite. Some people are allergic to ragweed pollen. Some where down that persons genetic tree, someone inhaled some pollen that was more than ragweed. It was carrying something infectious, they survived and passed on a genetic code so that a different cell of the immune system will eliminate this pollen. A different immune response. As for these worms we are not capable of even finding them in our bodies. The only time we seem to find out is when THEY make their presence known. When they become visible, such as the African eye worm Loa Loa. When it comes into the eye you know you are infected. If this does not happen you would never know. They live in the subcutaneous layer of skin, there are no nerve endings there, we cannot feel their presence. That reminds me, I live in a homeless shelter, there are a lot of drug addicts, the addicts that take the drug crystal meth often wind up with scabs on their bodies. This is from them scratching at what is believed imaginary bugs that are on their skin. They really have bugs, only they are not on the skin, they are in the skin. The worms like the drug, it brings them from the subcutaneous layer of skin into the dermis layer of skin. This is how they collect the molecules of the drug. In the dermis layer of skin we can feel them, we have nerve endings there. If you have rhematoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, lupus, you may have experienced a very odd tingling sensation in the arms and/or legs. This is the sensation of the hyper migratory activity of the worm through the dermis. I do not know why, I have only experienced this once and that was last summer, my first summer of taking prednisone. I also have a skin nodule on my back now from prednisone, immune suppression is not good. The skin nodule is a raised growth of epithelial cells, about the size of a dime. This is from Onchocerca Volvulus, if I did not suppress my immune system it would not have let this happen. That's important because now we can understand that our immune system is behaving differently, we have diversity in our genome, and that is simply nature, doing what it must and trying to be successful. As for rarity of nematodes, they are far more successful than you think, they infect all life, plants, aquatic, humans, I believe there was an epidemic of Loa Loa in the United States during the 20's or 30's.
David
SLE 2002, pulmonary sarcoidosis, deep vein thrombosis, raynaud's
When you have eliminated the impossible, all that remains, however improbable, is the truth. 


Serina
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 431
   Posted 8/20/2008 7:10 AM (GMT -7)   
You may have found that advice in the Lupus Resources topic (link at the end of my signature). There really is some good stuff in there. And the symptom list is really helpful to me too.
 
I can never remember what to tell the doctor when I am sitting in front of him.  so this log will list everything, and he can decide what is important.  I write it down as I feel it.  I am hoping to be able to get some printer ink this month so that I can type it as you said to do and make two copies of it.  Or maybe three copies, and give one to my family doctor, who had the good sense to refer me to a rheumatologist.
 
Yesterday was a relatively good day.  only minor pain.  the day before must have been a tiny flare.  I had walked down to my neighbor's house in the sun, to talk to her, three days ago.  she has been having heart attacks and did not know it.  so I walked in the sun, and walked pretty fast too.  Normally I would be out of breath and exhausted by walking to her house.
 
I believe the plaquinil is working, but I still have to stay out of the sun, and not over do, as many of you have advised us to do.
 
With this list of symptoms I think the doctor will have a better idea of what is going on with me.  and can therefore treat me better.
 
thanks again for this advice. 
 
one other question to all.  Is your day better first thing in the morning or does it get worse as the day proceeds?  the rheumy asked me how long did it take me in the mornings to get unstiff.  and I find that my pain is worse in the evenings, and my energy gone later in the day, not in the mornings.
 
Hester

puccini914
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 363
   Posted 8/20/2008 8:28 AM (GMT -7)   
Same with me Hester. Once the morning Darvocet kicks in I'm ready to go. I fizzle out about 1:00 and by 6:00pm I'm dead and ready for bed. As far as being "unstiff", for me it's a matter of when the drugs start working.

Jennifer

Diagnostic Limbo: Seeing Rheumy since November 07, Taking plaquenil, Cymbalta, Flexeril,Claritin, Zantac,Ambien, vitamin D, Darvocet.

 

 


Serina
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 431
   Posted 8/20/2008 9:47 AM (GMT -7)   
Hey Jennifer
 
Thank you for your response.  Sitting in his office, the doctor asking me about being stiff, I was thinking that maybe I don't have lupus because I am not stiff in the mornings.  Even though he is looking at an extremely high blood test that did indicate Lupus.
 
I did not know that other Lupus patients also had brain fog.  I was afraid I was having the first stages of Alzheimers.  On this list I found that this is not true.  Many others have this same thing.  Maybe the doctor doesn't always know the right questions to ask, and me and my foggy brain doesn't always know the symptoms I need to report.  I was really afraid to tell anyone about the brain fog symptoms, until I read it here.  do not want to find myself in a nursing home, and powerless, because I told someone one of my symptoms.  Now I can share this with my doctor, and report to him that many other lupus people, not just me has this same problem.  and that at least one other Lupus person, finds herself feeling worse at the end of the day.  Not just me.
 
I do not want to sound like a repeat, but I have to say again and again maybe, that I was very fortunate when I found this forum.
 
Thanks again Jennifer

Serina
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 431
   Posted 8/20/2008 10:09 AM (GMT -7)   

Hey David and others,

I did a google search for nematodes and found one website where it says nematodes are not dangerous to humans, and is sold to people to get rid of insect problems in one's lawn.

Another website said that nematodes are dangerous to people, and that we become infected when we swallow dirt, or the debri of dead animals, or raw fish, who were infected with nematodes before they died.  this link tended to indicate that hepatitus c is caused by nematodes.    but this site did not indicate that we could see them in our blood stream, but rather that they are found in the liver where they can become dangerous.

Hester

 


puccini914
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 363
   Posted 8/20/2008 2:10 PM (GMT -7)   
Well, I have to say that I,also did a bit of net surfing on this subject . The ones you pick up from dirt and such that are found in soil usually come from animal feces. Animals can carry all kinds of intestinal parasites as well as fliaria in the blood. Some are harmful and some are not. The filaria that David is talking about are found only in very primitive areas of the world where there is no sanitation system to speak of. I think that if Lupus was caused by some type of parasite, we would see concentrated populations of Lupus patients both male and female in areas with high mosquito populations. The type of filaria he is talking about are transmitted by insects. There are diagnostic tests available and there are treatments. However, these treatments involve toxins like Ivermectin(what dogs take for heartworm) and other that can be vary dangerous. I realize that having to live a life where you are constantly dealing with doctors can be very frustrating. I'm still in a bit of denial that I will have some degree of discomfort and be on medication for the rest of my life, that I will have days totally wasted because I can't leave the house that day. I pray for a cure, but I also realize that medical science is still working to understand and treat these conditions. Do a search on "autoimmune disease discovery" and you will see how many new discoveries are being made. They found a way to kill HIV in the lab with something called an abzyme, this is naturally produced by people that have lupus.

http://www.fox11az.com/news/topstories/stories/NWkmsb20080730_hiv_breakt-hrough.1971ecbd.html

If they can do that, they can figure out something for us as well. We just need to pray and have faith that something will come along sooner then later. God Bless.

Jennifer

Diagnostic Limbo: Seeing Rheumy since November 07, Taking plaquenil, Cymbalta, Flexeril,Claritin, Zantac,Ambien, vitamin D, Darvocet.

 

 


ojibway
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 8/20/2008 2:54 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi listeners

Here is a link about filariasis from the Center for Disease Control.

http://www.dpd.cdc.gov/dpdx/HTML/Filariasis.htm

These are the worms I am talking about. Particular the subcutaneous nematodes, Loa Loa and Mansonella Streptocerca, these are causing all of our skin problems, as well as eye problems. If you do not have problems with your legs, you probably do not have the lymphatic worms. If you are having abdominal problems such as Chrohn's, Collitis, you may have Mansonella Perstans or Ozzardi. You are right when you say these worms are problems of developing or underdeveloped nations, as such, the nature of the worms is poorly understood. These countries simply do not have the resources to do the necessary research. A very striking fact is that in Africa were these worm are prevalent, autoimmune disease is not. They have the worms, we have autoimmune disease, or do we?



David
SLE 2002, pulmonary sarcoidosis, deep vein thrombosis, raynaud's
When you have eliminated the impossible, all that remains, however improbable, is the truth. 

Post Edited (ojibway) : 8/20/2008 4:03:01 PM (GMT-6)


Bsime
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1299
   Posted 8/20/2008 3:59 PM (GMT -7)   
Nematode worms can be harmful to humans.  An example is trichinosis.
 
Prions are fatal to humans....mad cow disease.  I have a friend who is dying of Jacobs Creunfeldt and it is a terrible and untreatable thing.  If you had them in your system you would inevitably die so it doesn't make sense that prions cause AI diseases.
 
This whole thread is getting off the wall.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion but some less than interesting theories have been put forth and I don't think they are helpful to those who really need sensible advice and help.
 
Just my opinion.
 
Bill 
 
 
Mixed connective tissue disease (systemic lupus, scleroderma, polymyositis), Raynauds phenomena, Hypertension, Barrett's esophagus.
 
Meds: prednisone 5mg, 50mg imuran, Lotrel 40/5mg, maxide 37.5/25mg, folic acid, potassium, aciphex 20mg, multi vitamins.
 
Maintain your optimism and you can beat the odds.
 
"Although the world is full of suffering, it is also full of the overcoming of it."  Helen Keller
 
 


Lynnwood
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 7023
   Posted 8/20/2008 4:08 PM (GMT -7)   
As long as everyone is nice to each other, and doesn't discount another because of their theories and/or beliefs, this thread is being allowed to continue.

HW always recommends checking with your qualified health care provider before considering any solutions or suggested options mentioned in this or any other thread.

Remember that the HW the forums are primarily for personal support, not for debating or presenting any particular forms of treatment, traditional or otherwise.

Lynnwood, Co-Moderator: Lupus Forum
SLE(’00), Sjogren's Syndrome, Raynaud's Syndrome, SAD, Depression, Herpes Simplex 1
Piroxicam, Plaquenil, Prednisone(was 15mg, now 8mg), Cellcept, Xanax, Trazodone, Boniva(3mth shot), Wellbrutrin SR, Valtrex
Links: DIAGNOSING LUPUS (4 of 11), LUPUS INFORMATION, LUPUS RESOURCES, Donate to HealingWell, Drug Interactions


Serina
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 431
   Posted 8/20/2008 4:44 PM (GMT -7)   
They found a way to kill HIV in the lab with something called an abzyme, this is naturally produced by people that have lupus.
 
So why can't they use our blood to help HIV people?  I swear sometimes that they must take at least a pint from me every year when they do blood tests throughout the year.  and they only use a tiny part of what they do take.  why could the rest not be donated to HIV people?
 
Five years.  Even though they have found possibly the cure, they can't use it for five years.  shakehead
 
Why does it take so long?  Because aids people are not as important as some other research.  being negative here maybe but i do not understand the extended amount of time.  do they have to test it for five years to see if it is working?    How many times do they have to see it working before they can say, "yep this one works, or doesn't work?
 
So if a lupus person got the HIV virus, would our immune system kill the virus before it could hurt us?  Is this a reason to be glad we have Lupus?
 
Learning so much here that I might never  have known otherwise.
 
Hester

puccini914
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 363
   Posted 8/20/2008 5:18 PM (GMT -7)   
I read somewhere, forget where, that Lupus people do not get HIV. This must be what led them to the discovery. Keep in mind this is the first time they've been able to kill the virus, then they have to develope a vaccine, test it and test it and test it, have clinical trials, and then pass FDA and then it will be available. It will be the same way when they find something for Lupus. We just have to keep in mind that the hippocratic oath states "DO NO HARM". They don't want to give anybody as sick as we or HIV pateints are something that will make them worse or possibly kill them. I remain positive that something will be discovered we just have to be patient.

Jennifer

Diagnostic Limbo: Seeing Rheumy since November 07, Taking plaquenil, Cymbalta, Flexeril,Claritin, Zantac,Ambien, vitamin D, Darvocet.

 

 


Serina
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 431
   Posted 8/20/2008 5:55 PM (GMT -7)   
I read somewhere, forget where, that Lupus people do not get HIV. This must be what led them to the discovery.
 
I certainly do not wish to get in a debate either, and do not wish to break any rules in this forum.
 
I did a google search to see if I could find any reference to Lupus people not getting HIV.  couldn't  find any.  However I did find the perfect site for me.  "Autoimmune Disease for Dummies" idea
 
When it comes to people, and animals, my patience could be improved.  I am patient when dealing with people and animals, but not so patient waiting on such things as findings for stuff like the search for cures for Aides.  But will try to do better.
 
thanks for your response
hester

puccini914
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 363
   Posted 8/20/2008 7:37 PM (GMT -7)   
No worries Hester, I'm so foggy I can't even remember where I might have seen that. This is all so frustrating that there are days when I think we all want to explode. I'm like you, I question everything until it's totally proved to me. I questioned the whole AI dx so many times I think I made my Rheumy question it as well. So here I am with 6 of 11 criteria and a part of me still wants to call it a little bug or something that will just go away someday. LOL Take care and good luck.

Jennifer

Diagnostic Limbo: Seeing Rheumy since November 07, Taking plaquenil, Cymbalta, Flexeril,Claritin, Zantac,Ambien, vitamin D, Darvocet.

 

 


Lynnwood
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 7023
   Posted 8/21/2008 9:13 AM (GMT -7)   
Yeah, I still think mine is a little bug that will go away someday....and I've been symptomatic for 6+ years!

Lynnwood, Co-Moderator: Lupus Forum
SLE(’00), Sjogren's Syndrome, Raynaud's Syndrome, SAD, Depression, Herpes Simplex 1
Piroxicam, Plaquenil, Prednisone(was 15mg, now 8mg), Cellcept, Xanax, Trazodone, Boniva(3mth shot), Wellbrutrin SR, Valtrex
Links: DIAGNOSING LUPUS (4 of 11), LUPUS INFORMATION, LUPUS RESOURCES, Donate to HealingWell, Drug Interactions


Serina
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 431
   Posted 8/21/2008 9:47 AM (GMT -7)   

Hey Lynnwood and Jennifer,

thank you for your input.  stayed up all night last night because yesterday was such a good day, but I had been out in the Sun three times, and was afraid I would wake up sick today.  Plaquinil must be working for me, and I am so glad.  One day at a time I am going to try to face the facts of this disease, and do the best I can each day.  Today is still a good day.  minimal pain, relatively speaking. No weakness, or dizziness, or nausea.  Tomorrow is not here yet, so not going to worry about it.  Yesteray is a memory, tomorrow is a dream, today is all I have.  and if I can keep these thoughts in my head, bad days will be expected and planned for, but I won't have to make my good days bad too, simply by worrying about the bad days yet to come.  this is what I did last night.  staying up all night to try to second guess Lupus.  I let fear overrun my good judgement, and stayed up all night to prolong the good day.

I can't predict Lupus and what it will do to me and when.  It is a power greater than I am.  So I have decided to do the best that I can with the good days that I have, and to do my best in bad days too.  Sometimes the house will not be as clean as I would like for it to be.  Some days I will not be able to ride six or seven blocks to my Aunt Loucindy's house to see about her.  but some days I will be able to do this.  and the days I can't do it, I will lay on the couch or the bed, and watch forever tv.;)

Without support recieved on this list from all of you, I might never have arrived at this conclusion.  It helps so much to be with others who have the same problem and symptoms that I have.

Hester

 


Lynnwood
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 7023
   Posted 8/21/2008 10:51 AM (GMT -7)   
Good attitude! :-)

smhair
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