lupus and bipolar disorder?

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misscali
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 154
   Posted 6/24/2007 1:37 AM (GMT -7)   
i was reading and another forum and the question was "I have heard that Lupus can cause or trigger Bi-Polar Disorder. Does anybody know anything about that? And if so, what can you do about it? Will the drugs for Bi-Polar, effect the drugs that help and treat Lupus?"

im just wondering if there was any truth to this rumor!! thanks

PattyLatty
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2570
   Posted 6/24/2007 1:47 AM (GMT -7)   
Misscali,

Well, you're enjoying this wonderful friend our ours too ...... insomnia.

I've never heard anything about a connection between lupus and bi-polar disorder. Lupus can cause depression, and I'm evidence of that. Here's a link to the Lupus Foundation of America in which they discuss depression.

www.lupus.org/webmodules/webarticlesnet/templates/new_aboutliving.aspx?articleid=92&zoneid=16

Hope you get some sleep.

Pat
Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Sjogren's, osteoarthritis, fibro, ibs, renauds, restless leg, hiatal hernia, double vision.

cellcept 1,000mg, neurontin 1,200 mg, prednisone 5mg, plaquenil 400mg, synthroid .15mg, triamterene 37.5mg, tramadol prn, lunesta 6 mg, actonel, tri-est (compounded estrogen) 7.5 mg 2xmultivitamin, calcium w vit D, fish oil, aspirin


misscali
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 154
   Posted 6/24/2007 1:55 AM (GMT -7)   
lol thanks! u too

CaptSue
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 279
   Posted 6/24/2007 5:48 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Pat and Misscali,

I have recently been dealing with my brother who is diagnosed with bipolar so your thread title caught my eye (and scared me!) The link didn't seem to work but I googled Lupus and bipolar and the first hit:

http://bipolar.about.com/od/generalhealth/a/lupus.htm

(whoops, doesn't look like it is clickable so might be a cut and paste if you are interested)

gives some very basic information that seems to suggest an overlap of symptoms as opposed to autoimmune difficulties "causing" bipolar. Anyway, scary to think about as if we don't have enough troubles. I am actually going to see a therapist this thursday as the last couple of weeks of dealing with my brother (trip to the emergency room while he was in a psychotic state and his incarceration into a mental facility) nearly tipped me over the edge.

Good Luck to both of you -- I just had a sleep study done (no results yet) and currently take AmbienCR otherwise I would have been doing the up in the middle of the night thing.

Stay Strong,
Sue
Diagnosis: Mixed connective tissue disease (systemic lupus, scleroderma, polymyositis), Raynauds phenomena (both diagnosed in 2006)

Meds: prednisone (5.0 mg wish I could taper), Imuran (2X50mg), Prilosec (20mg), Prozac (off now)


redrose77
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 2573
   Posted 6/24/2007 10:44 AM (GMT -7)   
I actually got dxed as bipolar type II which is different from classic bipolar (aka bipolar type I) and my psychiatrist believes that the gene that left me open for the bipolar may have been triggered by the nervous system involvement of my lupus. She said that it is quite possible that had I not progressed to CNS involvement I would not have developed bipolar but since this is just a theory and we can't undo any of it there is no way to prove or disprove her thoughts on the matter.
Dx:fibromyalgia 2002, systematic lupus 2005, psoriasis 2006, rheumetoid arthritis 2006, early sjogrens 2006, low positive anti-phospholipid antibodies/lupus anti-coglutant 2001-2004 and 2007, osteoarthritis 2005, Migraine 1994, Compression fracture 2001, Disk problems 2006, Multiple allergies 2006, Post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) 2007, Bipolar type II 2007, possible siezures 2005, probable lupus CNS involvement 2007

Tx: plaquenil, Imuran, Enbrel, Celebrex, Tramadol, Norco, Singulair, Skelaxin, Evoxac, Clonazepam, Zonisamide, Baby Asprin, Relpax, Copper IUD


cured4real?
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 1944
   Posted 6/24/2007 7:24 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi--
I was at first diagnosed as bipolar type II with hypochondriac tendencies, even though have my pigment was missing and I had hyperpigmentation and was obviously physically sick and in pain. It's ridiculous, they are so quick to put a psychiatric label on women, or anyone really. But in my reading on bipolar disorder I learned alot. Patty Duke wrote a great book about bipolar illness and it has a lot of good medical info in it and is easy to read. Docs have pretty much tracked down bipolar disease to e related to problems with the thyroid. Since so many people are underdiagnosed for hypo and hyperthyroidism because the doctors and labs do not use the new scale for TSH levels and rely too much on bloodwork and not enough on physical symptoms, they get put in mental institutions as mild bipolars. Lots of people with autoimmune thyroid disease (graves hyperthyroid or hashiimotos hypothyroid also have other autoimmune diseases). The endocrine system is frequently a target for autoimmune attacks. Autoimmune hypothyroidism can be so severe that you develop hashimotos encephalitls, a rarely diagnosed condition that can cause hallucinations, psychosis, schizophrenic like symptoms and death. It is very dangerous. Anti thyroid antibodies are TPOS and TG and my TPOS was in the thousands (normal high is 60) but that is nothing, people with HE have it as high as 10000 and have to be hospitalized and stuff. It is very important that you get your TPOS and TG anti-thyroid antibodies monitored along with your regular thyroid tests like TSH. My TSH was normal and my antibodies were extremely high. Since I've been on synthroid and plaquenil and metformin for diabetes and pain meds for chronic pain and neck surgery for acute pain, I've been doing great. The synthroid straightened me out alot mentally, no more anciety and depression bouts all the time. The other reason it is important that your TPOS is tested is that medicines to treat bipolar disorder are not good for someone with high TPOS and they gave me a heart attack and put me in the hospital. I'm lucky I didn't die. I think that all medical conditions need to be tested for and treated before they diagnose someone with mental illness, even if the treatment involves "anti-seizure" psychiatric type meds. It is very normal for someone sick to be anxious or depressed and labelling someone with a mental illness on top of things can just make everything worse, and the meds can mask symptoms of a serious condition. Hope this helps. BTW, klonopin is a very safe and effective tx for mild bipolar, but most docs don't know this or won't prescribe it (Patty Duke's book). There is also a thyroid test on Mary Shomon's thyroid site that can help you tell if you might have thyroid problems.
Love, Marji
--Doctors are men who prescribe medicines of which they know little, to cure diseases of which they know less in human beings of whom they know nothing.--Voltaire (1694-1778)
Ills--Sjogrens-Lupus-like AI Disease, Hashis, Vitiligo, spinal stenosis/fusion with plate, salivary/lymphectomies, Diabetes, NAFLD, COPD, RLS, neuropathy, trigonitis, hystero, diffuse brain atrophy
Meds--Plaquenil, Evoxac, Metformin, Synthroid, HCTZ, Estradiol patch, Prosed, Klonopin, Soma, Ultram, Vicodin, Restasis, Albuterol,steroid injections, Protopic & Triamcinolone Acetonide ointments


emmi
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 1529
   Posted 6/24/2007 8:03 PM (GMT -7)   
Marji,

The hashimoto's encephalitis that you mention is what i have. My tpo antibodies were initially 20,400. The doctors say they have never seen anyone that high. It is not a fun disease.

Since pred causes me to become even more paranoid and crazy they don't want to treat the HE with that; the usual starting dose is in the range of at least 60mg. The next treatment is IVIg infusions. In march of 2006 I had 5 infusions; In june and July I had one. Since then I have not had any because the insurance will not pay for any more. Our old insurance company quit; they said they paid by mistake. WE paid cobra rates on me for 6 months to be sure we were more than covered for pre-existing conditions while my husband's coverage kicked in on a new job.

Now we are starting the same fight with the new carrier. It is because they are very expensive. I don't care though. We are paying for this coverage, it is medically necessary, and it is unthinkable to me that insurance boards who never see the patients are the ones who determine our care!!!! anyway... The cellcept I take barely makes a dent in this disease when you haven't been put in a remission. some of my symptoms are undercontrol; others are not.

My brain is done for tonight. Sleep well all. And let's hope we all feel better and hurt less in the coming week!

xoxo emmie
</FONT>

SLE, limited scleroderma, Sjogrens, Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, seizure disorder, Raynauds, Hashimoto's (or Autoimmune) Enchephalopathy


PattyLatty
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2570
   Posted 6/24/2007 9:24 PM (GMT -7)   
Emmi, I agree with you that we fight a battle with the wrong people in this field. Don't get me started on insurance companies because my blood pressure is low and I want to keep it that way.

How much cellcept are you taking? I'm sorry it isn't helping as much as it could. I hope you also get a good night's sleep and a great weak ahead.

Love,

Pat
Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Sjogren's, osteoarthritis, fibro, ibs, renauds, restless leg, hiatal hernia, double vision.

cellcept 1,000mg, neurontin 1,200 mg, prednisone 5mg, plaquenil 400mg, synthroid .15mg, triamterene 37.5mg, tramadol prn, lunesta 6 mg, actonel, tri-est (compounded estrogen) 7.5 mg 2xmultivitamin, calcium w vit D, fish oil, aspirin


CNSKris
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 236
   Posted 6/25/2007 11:46 AM (GMT -7)   
Marji has a point - when I had Hashimoto's I went to the psych ward for depression and seeing things. That is where I was finally diagnosed with Hashimoto's. Same time I had severe dementia. Not sure if or how they are all related, just all happed at the same time. A month later they found blood clots in my eyes too.

My daughter is 10 and is bipolar. She has been labled psychosis NOS since age 4. She has also had Lupus symptoms since age 6 (neurological and liver problems, costrochondritis, malar and discoid rashes as well as the "flare" symptoms). She tested positive at age 2 for Epstein Barr Virus.

Personally, I think there is a link between Lupus CNS and psychiatric symptoms. Maybe Lupus in general causes loss of serotonin.

Whether they are related or not, each of us need to be treated and none of us excluded if symptoms are present. The doctors labled me as depressed or neurotic years before I even became depressed. Finally, when I did have depression (and other symptoms) they were like AHA it's depression. That was extremely unfair and cost me years of treatment and the loss of my children for one year. I had to fight to get tested for Lupus even though it runs in my family. Funny, they give the diagnosis of "depression" out like candy. Anything they don't understand it must be "depression" and therefore they don't need to treat the person because they are "neurotic". How convenient. It is more rare for someone to have somatization than it is to have Lupus. Much much more rare.

I don't care if some one is the nuttiest person in the world. They deserve treatment for their symptoms, just like everyone else. - Kristin
 
  Dx:  Lupus CNS 11/2005; Current - kidney disease, enlarged heart, MVP/regurg, dementia; GERD; vision loss, narcolepsy, rheumatic arthritis, IBS, ovarian cysts, raynauds, EBV/CFS, inflam. liver/spleen. Rx:  Atenolol, Aricept, Flexeril, Motrin  Previous-rashes, hemi-pelagic migraine, sensory loss, amnesia, PTSD/Dep., host of neuro problems, pregnancy compl., False pos. syphilis, fine speck & homogen ANA; IgM; staph/strept infections, colonitis, pancreaitis, gastritis, costochondritis, pericarditis, Hashimoto's, dyspnea, hyper/hypotension, lipedemia, ulcers, pneumonia, anemia, Scleroderma symptoms, vein swelling, etc.  
 
 


emmi
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 1529
   Posted 6/25/2007 10:08 PM (GMT -7)   
Kristin,
Is it possible that you were manifesting the CNS symptoms of lupus??? But they weren't recognized as such and "merely" written off as "depression" and "neurotic"? There are so so many things that get me angry about the diagnosis, treatment and insurance aspects of "our" diseases.

Oh, how I wish I could wave a wand and cure us and all the ills of the world!

xoxo emmie

Patty,
I am currently taking 2000mg of cellcept.
</FONT>

SLE, limited scleroderma, Sjogrens, Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, seizure disorder, Raynauds, Hashimoto's (or Autoimmune) Enchephalopathy


PattyLatty
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2570
   Posted 6/25/2007 10:52 PM (GMT -7)   
Emmi, I'm right there with you girlfriend, & wish I could stand next to you and wave that wand.

I was on 2,000mg of cellcept but was cut down to 1,000. Now that is one drug that is not cheap. My doctor had been considering uping my dose to 2,500 but because of some stressors with my hubby's health she decided not to. But I tell you that to suggest that sometimes 2,500mg is not too much, so you might ask your rheumy about that.
Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Sjogren's, osteoarthritis, fibro, ibs, renauds, restless leg, hiatal hernia, double vision.

cellcept 1,000mg, neurontin 1,200 mg, prednisone 5mg, plaquenil 400mg, synthroid .15mg, triamterene 37.5mg, tramadol prn, lunesta 6 mg, actonel, tri-est (compounded estrogen) 7.5 mg 2xmultivitamin, calcium w vit D, fish oil, aspirin


emmi
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 1529
   Posted 6/26/2007 8:35 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Patty,

My neuros are in charge of the cellcept now even tho the rheumy originally prescribed it for my interstitial lung disease. The neuros cranked it up to 2000mg and I've been sitting there for about 15 mos.

I'm on a lot of other meds so I'm really not too anxious to up the dosage on it quite yet. I'm hoping the appeal to our insurance company to cover the IVIg iinfusions will get approved before you know where freezes over. If not......then we'll think about it. I just hate stressing my liver out more than necessary.

But I do appreciate the kind thoughts to drug me up some more ;-) Speaking of drugs, well sort of, How I long for a Margarita....but once again won't touch even a mere glass of wine I'm so good to my dear liver. So if you ever do, savor a sip for me, girlfriend *wink*.

xoxo emmie
</FONT>

SLE, limited scleroderma, Sjogrens, Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, seizure disorder, Raynauds, Hashimoto's (or Autoimmune) Enchephalopathy


CNSKris
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 236
   Posted 6/27/2007 1:11 PM (GMT -7)   
Emmi - Can I borrow your wand when you're done? :) Yes, the neurologist said it was all manifestations of Lupus CNS all along. He was very angry with my doctors for missing the diagnosis. I believe he even called the director and my doctor ended up leaving within the next two weeks. Little consulation to me, however. She pretty much left me for dead and I lost my kids for a time. Needless-to-say it angers me too that doctors do this. I brought my kids in to meet her the day she was leaving. I hate to see a doctor go, but hopefully she will realize that her bias affects other lives.

Originally they thought I may have depression and sent me to a neurologist after I made numerous requests. On the referral the doctor put supected psychosomatic illness. I went to John Hopkins and the doctor yelled at me and my mom that we were waisting his time and I was just depressed and crazy so therefore it was somatization. It confirmed my doctor's idea that I was just nuts. I didn't feel nuts or depressed.

I realize that no doctor can know everything. But if your client says they are not depressed or neurotic, goes to counseling at the doctors suggestion and the counselors tell the doctor the problem is NOT psychological and the patient is getting worse, then I think it is incumbent upon the doctor to follow-up and at least order tests. My doctor did not. Personally, I don't care if I was totally nuts, I was sick and in need of treatment.

So I went to DVR and the Divison of Vocational Rehab talked to the director and my doctor finally agreed to test me. I realize now all the "positive" results on these tests that she said weren't important, were. I had pernicious anemia, high ANA, low blood cell counts both red and white, hematuria, protienuria, EBV, hashimotos, etc. and my neuropsych test said I had organic brain damage. She refused to send me to any specialist or perform any more tests because I was just depressed. She was right this time, I did have depression finally and by this time I also lost my full-time job and insurance. I had now blood clots in my eyes and pericarditis so I went to a new hospital where they didn't have me listed as neurotic and hoped someone would treat me. Cooper Hospital actually asked me my medical history and treated my conditions. What a shock! I was told they thought I had Lupus. I explained my family members have Lupus but my regular doctor said it couldn't be Lupus. Cooper took pity on me and sent me to their neurologist and rheumatologist. I was diagnosed with Lupus CNS in November 2005.

Since then, I came back to see a new doctor in this area. I didn't realize they were ran by the local hospital and apparently had me down as neurotic still. I gave them the Cooper records, no one bothered to check them out. They sent me to their in-house counselor, who says I am one of the most stable people he knows despite what I had been through. I became sick again with rheumatism. Doctor briefly looked at the records and said he didn't know about the Lupus but I definitely had a rheumatic disease. Been sick several times thereafter. Now that it has hit the kidneys and heart again, they are now saying it is definitely Lupus and it is progressing that was last month. 10 Years Later.

I ask you, What Is Wrong With This Picture? Anyone, anyone? Maybe I am nuts to expect more than this. I'm sorry which planet did I get off on? What Country? Just kidding, but still I think that is nuts! Guess I made my point, wish an actual doctor would read this. For that matter I wish a doctor would read anything we all discuss. Now about that wand... Love y'all - Kristin
 
  Dx:  Lupus CNS 11/2005; Current - kidney disease, enlarged heart, MVP/regurg, dementia; GERD; vision loss, narcolepsy, rheumatic arthritis, IBS, ovarian cysts, raynauds, EBV/CFS, inflam. liver/spleen. Rx:  Atenolol, Aricept, Flexeril, Motrin  Previous-rashes, hemi-pelagic migraine, sensory loss, amnesia, PTSD/Dep., host of neuro problems, pregnancy compl., False pos. syphilis, fine speck & homogen ANA; IgM; staph/strept infections, colonitis, pancreaitis, gastritis, costochondritis, pericarditis, Hashimoto's, dyspnea, hyper/hypotension, lipedemia, ulcers, pneumonia, anemia, Scleroderma symptoms, vein swelling, etc.  
 
 


PattyLatty
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2570
   Posted 6/27/2007 1:24 PM (GMT -7)   
Kristin, I sure do understand your anger and frustration. It's a tough journey to travel down. I'm glad they finally gave you a diagnosis so you'll be able to get the treatment that you need.

MisCali, I think I saw your blog somewhere on the internet yesterday. I couldn't figure out how to get on and say hi, but I tried. If you was you, you are young and very beautiful!

Hope you guys have a good week.

Pat
Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Sjogren's, osteoarthritis, fibro, ibs, renauds, restless leg, hiatal hernia, double vision.

cellcept 1,000mg, neurontin 1,200 mg, prednisone 5mg, plaquenil 400mg, synthroid .15mg, triamterene 37.5mg, tramadol prn, lunesta 6 mg, actonel, tri-est (compounded estrogen) 7.5 mg 2xmultivitamin, calcium w vit D, fish oil, aspirin

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