ANA and Patterns?

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okie
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Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 2818
   Posted 8/21/2007 7:59 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi everyone. I was wondering of those of you who have a possitive ANA and a pattern if the pattern runs true to form of your DX? I'm wondering because my last old fossil of a rheumy said Lupus and I kind of doubt that. My pattern both times was Nucleolar which doesn't suggest Lupus from what I understand. I also was wondering if the meds are pretty much straight accrossed the board for all AI or if there is a difference in treatments? I don't see my new rheumy until oct. 4th.
Also does anyone else has a Nucleolar pattern and what your DX is?
thanks
love ya
carol
God Bless
Carol
Lupus, possible Crest, COPD, Cervical Cancer survivor. Osteoporosis
Prednisone 5mg, Plaquanil 800mg,Evista60mg, Effexor 150mg, HCTZ25/Triamterene37.5mg,Xanax x3
 
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you: 1. Jesus Christ 2. The American G. I
 
 
 


hippimom2
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 5403
   Posted 8/21/2007 8:18 AM (GMT -7)   
Carol, I don't know a lot about this subject. I keep forgetting to ask what kind of pattern I have. I'm guessing the info about ANA patterns are guidelines. When I re-read info about patterns it said that the Nucleolar pattern was "primarily" found in scleroderma, but I'm guessing there are exceptions to this. As far as meds go for AI diseases, I think a lot of the meds used are similar, but I'm sure there's some differences too. I know that some of the meds used to treat RA are different than the ones to treat lupus. Like everything else with these AI illnesses, it's about as clear as mud.

It's too bad you have to wait so long to see the new rheumy, but hopefully means he's a good one and worth the wait.

For people who want more info on ANA patterns and what the mean, here's something that Lynnwood posted on the Lupus Resource thread:

"The homogeneous (smooth) pattern is found in a variety of connective tissue diseases as well as in patients taking particular drugs such as certain anti-arrhythmics, anti-convulsants or anti-hypertensives. This pattern is also the pattern that is most commonly seen in healthy individuals who have positive ANA tests.

The speckled pattern is found in SLE and other connective tissue diseases, while the peripheral (or rim) pattern is found almost exclusively in SLE. The nucleolar pattern is found primarily in patients who have scleroderma."
Diagnosis:  UCTD (lupus) 2006; Raynauds 2006; Sjogren's 2006; lupus symptoms began 2003; CFS 1991; Mono 1985
Meds:  Plaquenil 400mg; Prednisone 5-10mg; Tramadol 100mg 3-4x daily; Doxepin 25-50mg; Prevacid; Steriod Cream and Mouth Rinse for tongue and mouth ulcers; Hydrocodone 5/500 prn for severe pain; Artificial tears

 

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okie
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Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 2818
   Posted 8/21/2007 8:24 AM (GMT -7)   
LOL thanks Hippi, yep clear as mud! I know it seems like about a 4 month wait to get into see this guy. I sure hope he's worth it. I hope you are starting to feel better with your new meds.
love ya
carol
God Bless
Carol
Lupus, possible Crest, COPD, Cervical Cancer survivor. Osteoporosis
Prednisone 5mg, Plaquanil 800mg,Evista60mg, Effexor 150mg, HCTZ25/Triamterene37.5mg,Xanax x3
 
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you: 1. Jesus Christ 2. The American G. I
 
 
 


dbab
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 4151
   Posted 8/21/2007 8:56 AM (GMT -7)   
I also forget to ask my rheumy about this too. My last rheumy didn't tell me either. I would think that if there are certain patterns that are more suggestive of a diagnosis (with the exception of speckled) that they would really look into it. Carol, I hope you push your doc on this subject, I hope he can give you some explanation on it.

Take Care
"Des"
Co-Moderator ~ IBS Forum
Co-Moderator ~ Lupus Forum 
Dx: IBS 1989, Diverticulosis 2004, Idiopathic Acute Colitis 2006, UCTD 2007
Meds: Plaquenil 400mg, Chlorzoxazone 500mg, Lyrica 50mg, Protonix 40mg, Naproxen 1000mg, Klonopin PRN, Miralax 17g, Supplements


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Chaya
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 194
   Posted 8/21/2007 9:04 AM (GMT -7)   
I think the staining pattern is useful ADDITIONAL  information. In and of itself it is useless. My pattern was speckled .

Bsime
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1299
   Posted 8/21/2007 11:16 AM (GMT -7)   
Here is an article that is a good summary of ANA staining patterns and diagnosis.
 
 
 
Keep in mind that our diseases are all auto immune and many of us have more than one AI disease.  AI diseases are systemic...a misdirected immune system that attacks our body.  Many of us have overlap connective tissue diseases like UCTD or MCTD that might include lupus.  A single diagnostic test can be misleading and it is the sum of symptoms and tests that produce a diagnosis.  That is why it is so difficult to diagnose and why it is so important to find an experienced doctor.
 
Unfortunately for some patients a firm diagnosis is often illusive even with good doctors.  Tests might vary, conflict, or be negative and yet you present symptoms of a particular disease.  Just because the tests are negative does not mean you do not have it.  Lupus and other AI diseases are so illusive.
 
In my case, it came on with strong symptoms and within a few months was conclusively diagnosed, first as lupus, then confirmed as MCTD.
 
Bill
 
 
Mixed connective tissue disease (systemic lupus, scleroderma, polymyositis), Raynauds phenomena, Hypertension, Barrett's esophagus.
 
Meds: prednisone (7mg & tapering), 100mg imuran, lisinopril 40mg, maxide 37.5/25mg, norvasc 5 mg, folic acid, potassium, aciphex 20mg, multi vitamins.
 
Maintain your optimism and you can beat the odds.
 
"Although the world is full of suffering, it is also full of the overcoming of it."  Helen Keller
 
 


CNSKris
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 236
   Posted 8/21/2007 1:09 PM (GMT -7)   
Fine speckled and homogeneous are mine. I don't rely heavily on it and the doctors never seem to care which type I have, just whether or not they are high ANAs. Still I am curious to see if the theory is true. I wonder if you get more than one do you have more than one disease. Mine like to play games one day it is one, next two, now none. Hide and seek. Still don't get this ANA stuff. But as far as I know mine concur with lupus.

I remember when I just had a high fine speckled ANA, the rheumy said I didn't have lupus that any one could get a high ANA. Then a couple of months later the fine speckled went higher and the high homogeneous ANA was seen, all of a sudden I had lupus. Within 3 short months. Another miracle I say. So yeah, it is confusing at best. Clear as mud. - Kristin
 
  Dx:  Lupus CNS 11/2005; Current - kidney disease, enlarged heart, MVP/regurg, dementia; GERD; vision loss, narcolepsy, rheumatic arthritis, IBS, ovarian cysts, raynauds, EBV/CFS, inflam. liver/spleen. Rx:  Atenolol, Aricept, Flexeril, Motrin  Previous-rashes, hemi-pelagic migraine, sensory loss, amnesia, PTSD/Dep., host of neuro problems, pregnancy compl., False pos. syphilis, fine speck & homogen ANA; IgM; staph/strept infections, colonitis, pancreaitis, gastritis, costochondritis, pericarditis, Hashimoto's, dyspnea, hyper/hypotension, lipedemia, ulcers, pneumonia, anemia, Scleroderma symptoms, vein swelling, etc.  
 
 


okie
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Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 2818
   Posted 8/21/2007 5:28 PM (GMT -7)   

Thanks for all the responses and the links. I really appreciate it. I am just feeling a bit frustrated. I hate waiting so long to see the doctor and I have no faith in my last doctor. I guess I am a little nervous. I don't want to take pills I don't need but I don't want to not take pills I do need. I spent 6 years taking meds twice a day for asthma. All while my lungs continued to deteriorate. Than to be told I can stop taking it now because I don't have asthma. However I have COPD which may or may not have gotten to this point had I been diagnosed with it earlier. Yes i used to smoke but how did I get COPD in my 30's. from smoking? Every doctor I ever saw said this is not likely the case. So is it scleraderma? The last hospital stay said I had scar tissue in my lungs. 2 years ago they were talking about a transplant if it got worse. They had even set me up with an appt: in california. (I didn't go). Would I even be a candidate for a transplant with AI?

Sorry I'm just ranting a loud. I wish I had thought about this stuff before when i had a doctor in front of me. and demand answers instead of some patranizing pats on the shoulder. I guess you gotta get tough when ya get sick. Take your health in your own hands. Ooops ranting again lol.

I better go

love ya

carol


God Bless
Carol
Lupus, possible Crest, COPD, Cervical Cancer survivor. Osteoporosis
Prednisone 5mg, Plaquanil 800mg,Evista60mg, Effexor 150mg, HCTZ25/Triamterene37.5mg,Xanax x3
 
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you: 1. Jesus Christ 2. The American G. I
 
 
 


AlwaysRosie
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Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 8616
   Posted 8/21/2007 5:38 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Carol,

Make sure to keep a document on your computer (or on paper) where you can list ALL your questions. . . and all your current and new symptoms. When you go to the doctor, you can print it out and use it at your appointment. I also keep an up-to-date list of prescriptions meds, OTC supplements and allergies. I print this out for each doctor appointment (one to update my wallet, one for the doc and one for hubby to keep in his wallet). On that sheet, I also include the names and tel numbers of my docs . . . they each love it.

I hope you'll let us know how things go at the doctor appt.

Blessings!
In His Grip,
AlwaysRosie          "We can't control the waves, but we can learn to surf!"
Psalms 139
 
Co-Moderator Lupus Forum
UCTD (Undifferentiated Connective Tissue Disease), Hashimoto's
Healing Well:  Lupus Resources
Lupus Foundation of America (LFA) Facts and Overview: Lupus.Org
Criterea for Diagnosing Lupus:  Lupus Criterea 
Find a Lupus Foundation Chapter near you: Lupus Chapter Locator


okie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 2818
   Posted 8/21/2007 5:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks Rosie, I will do that. I have alot of stuff from my last rheumy appt but I'm sure it needs to be updated. I will let everyone know what the new one has to say but my appt isn't for about 7 more weeks!
errrrrrrrggggggggg!
hugs
carol
God Bless
Carol
Lupus, possible Crest, COPD, Cervical Cancer survivor. Osteoporosis
Prednisone 5mg, Plaquanil 800mg,Evista60mg, Effexor 150mg, HCTZ25/Triamterene37.5mg,Xanax x3
 
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you: 1. Jesus Christ 2. The American G. I
 
 
 


CNSKris
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 236
   Posted 8/22/2007 11:41 AM (GMT -7)   
Carol, Not to pry, but you latest symptoms seem to be more like scleroderma. The CREST is a version of it but I believe it can move its way up to classifying as systemic scleroderma. Just my thoughts on it. All my reading points to the lungs as one of the main target areas. Also there is sine scleroderma, I don't think the skin gets involved in that one. Sounds like you have all the symptoms, but I don't recall you saying any thing anything about the tightening of the skin or ligaments. Not that you would want it, trust me. Do you have rheumatism? I see the osteo. and I believe that may be part of it too. Is your rheumy well versed in scleroderma? It seems so tough to differentiate between lupus symptoms and scleroderma symptoms with regards to organ damage. I have overlap symptoms too sometimes and it is even more confusing than it was prior. Hopefully they can get it narrowed down for you. I never did any testing for the scleroderma. That, and I only had skin and ligament symptoms for one year and it upped and dissappeared on me. I hope it never returns. Let us know how it goes - Big Hugs - Kristin
 
  Dx:  Lupus CNS 11/2005; Current - kidney disease, enlarged heart, MVP/regurg, dementia; GERD; vision loss, narcolepsy, rheumatic arthritis, IBS, ovarian cysts, raynauds, EBV/CFS, inflam. liver/spleen. Rx:  Atenolol, Aricept, Flexeril, Motrin  Previous-rashes, hemi-pelagic migraine, sensory loss, amnesia, PTSD/Dep., host of neuro problems, pregnancy compl., False pos. syphilis, fine speck & homogen ANA; IgM; staph/strept infections, colonitis, pancreaitis, gastritis, costochondritis, pericarditis, Hashimoto's, dyspnea, hyper/hypotension, lipedemia, ulcers, pneumonia, anemia, Scleroderma symptoms, vein swelling, etc.  
 
 


okie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 2818
   Posted 8/22/2007 8:45 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Kristin, Actually I am seening a new rheumy in oct. I really don't know much about him. Thanks for the info. The more I learn the more I am really beginning to beleive it is scleraderma. especially symptoms plus the nucleolar patterns. but I'm no doctor. As for the skin I don't have the tightening but I do have the little tiny dots on my fingers that look like I was playing with a red ink pen. I also have the veins all over my back. I absolutely never want my skin to get tight like that. I've seen pictures and its tragic. I will bring it up to the rheumy and hope they will run some test to try to rule it in or out.
thanks again
huge hugs
carol
God Bless
Carol
Lupus, possible Crest, COPD, Cervical Cancer survivor. Osteoporosis
Prednisone 5mg, Plaquanil 800mg,Evista60mg, Effexor 150mg, HCTZ25/Triamterene37.5mg,Xanax x3
 
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you: 1. Jesus Christ 2. The American G. I
 
 
 


Bsime
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1299
   Posted 8/22/2007 9:12 PM (GMT -7)   
Scleroderma does not have to include skin involvement although that is the most common.  It can include almost any tissue (external and internal) and in my case has been limited to my digestive tract.  It has probably contributed to my swallowing problems and might have caused me to get Barretts esophagus.  Last year the docs thought it had hit my lungs but after a catherization they concluded it had not....good thing.  Hard to diagnose based on looking at your skin.
 
Some of what you describe sound like dermatomyositis which is an inflammatory muscle disease that involves the vessels in your muscles instead of the muscle cells themselves.  Rashes and other skin manifestations are common.
 
Hopefully, you have neither.  Lupus can also cause some of the symptoms you are describing. 
 
Bill
 
 
 
Mixed connective tissue disease (systemic lupus, scleroderma, polymyositis), Raynauds phenomena, Hypertension, Barrett's esophagus.
 
Meds: prednisone (7mg & tapering), 100mg imuran, lisinopril 40mg, maxide 37.5/25mg, norvasc 5 mg, folic acid, potassium, aciphex 20mg, multi vitamins.
 
Maintain your optimism and you can beat the odds.
 
"Although the world is full of suffering, it is also full of the overcoming of it."  Helen Keller
 
 


okie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 2818
   Posted 8/22/2007 9:26 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi Bill, wow that is interesting. I never thought about it being in your digestive tract. My previous rheumy said it could be CREST because I have had several bouts with painful swollowing. Like I was eat my steak with out chewing or somthing. I'm with you I hope it's none of it. I would be happy to wake up and find this has all been a bad dream. I hope you are feeling well and getting in a gulf game or two.

hugs

carol


God Bless
Carol
Lupus, possible Crest, COPD, Cervical Cancer survivor. Osteoporosis
Prednisone 5mg, Plaquanil 800mg,Evista60mg, Effexor 150mg, HCTZ25/Triamterene37.5mg,Xanax x3
 
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you: 1. Jesus Christ 2. The American G. I
 
 
 

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