Question on lupus and hep

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joinery
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 323
   Posted 10/28/2007 1:44 PM (GMT -7)   
I have a question concerning if there are any relations with lupus and hep c. I was talking to a person who had discoid lupus for about 20 years and was just treated for hep c and now diagnosed with sle. Lupus does interfer with organs and blood counts and false positives. Im just curious if hepc and lupus could maybe run together.

Ginny
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Date Joined Feb 2003
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   Posted 10/28/2007 9:05 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Joinery,
 
There is absolutely no connection between lupus and Hepatitis C.  Here is a link about Hep C and how it's transmitted and what causes it.  http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/hepatitis/c/fact.htm
 
Autoimmune diseases like lupus or MS are caused by an overactive immune system that attacks itself, which in turn creates inflammation that attacks or tissues, organs etc.  Can't get lupus from unprotected sex or dirty needles.
 
Hope this information helps!
 
Ginny
I can do anything through Jesus Christ who strengthens me. I have learned in whatever state I am in,to be content. Phillipians 4:11-13

33 years old. Diagnosed with lupus in 2000. Fibromyalgia, anti-phospholipid syndrome(APS)(stroke),Sjogren's, Raynaud's, seizure disorder-(miraclulously disappeared!), Libman Sach's Endocarditis, vasculitis, sacroiliitis, neutropenia, thrombocytopenia. Prednisone, Imuran, Coumadin, Clobazam, Amitriptyline, didrocal, monopril, calcium, Cykolokapron, multi-vitamin, vitamin D, Magnesium, vitamin B6, Acidophilus


AlwaysRosie
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Date Joined Jan 2005
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   Posted 10/29/2007 7:09 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Joinery . . .

Interesting question. Ginny is right in her response . . . . but I have run into a couple people lately who had what they thought was Hep C . . . back many years ago there was a trial of interfuron to see if it would help the Hep C and some of the people who tried it, ended up with auto-immune issues. Also some of the people who were diagnosed with Hep C actually had auto-immune hepatitis. So I could understand why you are confused.

Clear as mud??? I hope this helps.

Blessings!

In His Grip

AlwaysRosie           "We can't control the waves, but we can learn how to surf!!"

Psalms 139

Co-Moderator - Lupus Forum

UCTD, Hashimotos, Inflammatory Bowel, Inflammatory Arthritis

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joinery
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 323
   Posted 10/29/2007 8:36 AM (GMT -7)   
I know many years back there was a blood transfusion that happened before the screenings were done. They said she had probably recieved hep c from that. I have been hearing things on hepc and lupus how they might be related.

AlwaysRosie
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Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 8616
   Posted 10/29/2007 8:55 AM (GMT -7)   
My sister-in-law was dx'd with hep c many years ago . . . now that the disease has progressed, they are changing the dx to auto-immune hep . . . but I'm not aware of any relationship between hep c and lupus.

Blessings!

In His Grip

AlwaysRosie           "We can't control the waves, but we can learn how to surf!!"

Psalms 139

Co-Moderator - Lupus Forum

UCTD, Hashimotos, Inflammatory Bowel, Inflammatory Arthritis

Clickable Links:  Lupus Resources    Lupous.Org   Lupus Criteria (4 of 11)   Lupus Chapter Locator


joinery
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 323
   Posted 10/29/2007 8:58 AM (GMT -7)   
When the hep keeps reoccuring is that how they know it is autoummine hep rather than hep c?

AlwaysRosie
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Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 8616
   Posted 10/29/2007 7:17 PM (GMT -7)   
As far as I know, the hep c is a life-long thing.

In His Grip

AlwaysRosie           "We can't control the waves, but we can learn how to surf!!"

Psalms 139

Co-Moderator - Lupus Forum

UCTD, Hashimotos, Inflammatory Bowel, Inflammatory Arthritis

Clickable Links:  Lupus Resources    Lupous.Org   Lupus Criteria (4 of 11)   Lupus Chapter Locator


joinery
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 323
   Posted 10/29/2007 9:42 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank you for your answers back they helped a lot.

cured4real?
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Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 1944
   Posted 10/30/2007 7:28 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi joinery,
I'm going to disagree with a few people here, just based on my own experience and those of friends who have or have had hep c and what docs have told me. Since the PCR test came out to test for the virus, the medical community has found that there are many many people who have antibodies to hepc that do not have any trace of the virus. They have had some people sero convert, which means they no longer have the antibodies. Because hepc is so easy to spread, much more easy than aids, and there is no known reason why even a mosquito would not spread it, many hepatologists have come to believe that lots of people are exposed to hepc but fight it off, they may or may not have antibodies. This also comes from family studies of people with hepc who did not spread it though the virus should have spread. This being said, there are some people for who the virus goes into remission, but a remission longer than a year is considered to be "cured" since there have been no people that have come out of remission after a year.

Yes, autoimmune problems come with hepc, hepc causes hashimotos and other autoimmune endocrine diseases because your body fights so hard to kill the hepc virus that your immune system goes into overdrive. Many diseases can cause autoimmune disease in this way. A high ANA is typical with hepatitis C and treatment with interferon alpha is known to cause sle and to cause a lupus negative person to develop anti-ds-dna antibodies. I was initially diagnosed with a lupus-like autoimmune disease resulting from a past hepc infection and/or its treatment. Vitiligo, an autoimmune skin disease, is common with hepatitis disease and I believe hep c is mentioned as a cause for secondary lupus. These really bad diseases, like hepc, that last a long time and may become chronic always have the potential to damage the immune system. Also, the liver plays an integral role in immune responses so damage or inflammation is going to affect how the liver works. Sjogrens syndrome is a common problem that runs with hepatitis C. And unfortunately some people have autoimmune hepatitis and hepatitis c as well and the treatments are completely opposite and these people have it very hard.

Doctors try to treat the hepatitis c before it attacks the immune system and other parts of the body, because the treatment (interferon alpha) makes the autoimmune complications worse. Hepatologists believe that the hepatitis caused immune system problems will go away once the hepa*** virus is eradicated or put into remission. Many people have had permanent damage, though the hepatitis virus is gone.

I have non-alcoholic fatty liver disease which also causes autoimmune problems and perhaps is caused by autoimmune problems. It is tied with diabetes and endocrine deficiencies and other ai problems. I was diagnosed due to polyendocrine deficiency and skin pigment problems. Primary Biliary Cirrhosis is another autoimmune liver disease that also has components of a lupus like syndrome and maybe tied to lupus.

Having anti-bodies to double stranded dna or anti-mitochondrial antibodies can cause you to develop a number of different autoimmune problems, I don'tknow why some people get some things and some people get others. The docs use these as markers because people who have anti-ds-dna often have lupus.

It is possible to test false positive to hep c surface antigen (have antibodies to hep c) and a RIBA test is done to determine if your positive is really a real positive or a false positive. In my case, the RIBA was inconclusive. Everyone on my dad's side of the family tests positive for hep c antibodies, but none of them have ever tested positive for the virus, nor do they have damage to their livers that would be expected with hep c. We all do have non-alcoholic fatty liver.

I used to have a link to a great rheumatology article about the effects of cytokine and anticytokine (cytokines=interferons) and it clearly spelled out that doctors have known for some time that interferon alpha will cause a patient to develop anti-ds-dna and to develop SLE lupus. They also know that the disease itself can cause a lupus like condition or secondary lupus because the body's defense against the virus is to raise its natural levels of interferons which will cause lupus.

The other thing you need to know is that hep c is very contagious when active, and there are frequent problems with contaminations in labs, the tests are relatively new. I've had at least two wrong lab results due to contamination in the lab, and not only my results but everyone they did for the past few days came out wrong. This may explain things. It is also possible that rosies sil has been in remission long enough they believe that she has fought off the virus on her own, usually the virus recurs within a year, remissions of a year or longer are considered to be cures. Remember that many people with hep c may get the disease again after many years of being cured due to repeated risky behavior.

I have never tested postive for the virus, though I was considered to have had it and fought it off and left with ai complications. I do believe many people fight it off and people with hyper immune systems may have extra protection against the virus and may fight it off easier, I don't know. But I had antibodies, but was left with ai disease and no hep c virus.

Primary (genetic passed down from parents dna) lupus and hep c are not related, but hepc can cause secondary lupus (lupus with no anti-ds-dna) and treatment for hepc with interferon alpha can definitely cause you to develop anti-ds-dna and sle lupus.

lupus and interferon alpha
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/537783

Extrahepatic manifestations: systemic lupus erythematosis
http://www.fbhc.org/Patients/Modules/hepatitisc.cfm
and
www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/factsheets_pdf/sle.pdf

Patient who got lupus from interferon tx for hep c
http://www.sclero.org/support/stories/english/s/shar/a-to-z.html
www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/factsheets_pdf/sle.pdf

This is just some of the stuff. There hasn't been any good studies confirming the connection between hepc and lupus, but while lupus cannot cause hep c, it is possible for hep c to cause sjogrens and other lupus like problems, and tx for hepc can and often does cause lupus.

Hope this helps. I'm someone who definitely had a horrible experience on interferon because I already had autoimmune disease and I never should have been given it. All that aside. I know it does cause severe autoimmune problems.
Love, Marji
--Doctors are men who prescribe medicines of which they know little, to cure diseases of which they know less in human beings of whom they know nothing.--Voltaire (1694-1778)
Ills--Sjogrens-Lupus-like AI Disease, Hashis, Vitiligo, spinal stenosis/fusion with plate, salivary/lymphectomies, Diabetes, NAFLD, COPD, RLS, neuropathy, trigonitis, hystero, diffuse brain atrophy
Meds--Plaquenil, Evoxac, Metformin, Synthroid, HCTZ, Estradiol patch, Prosed, Klonopin, Soma, Ultram, Vicodin, Restasis, Albuterol,steroid injections, Protopic & Triamcinolone Acetonide ointments


joinery
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 323
   Posted 11/1/2007 11:04 AM (GMT -7)   
I thank you for that information. She had the lupus since early 20 and now is 51 and just had a 7 month treatment of interferon. They said the hepc could of been in her system for many years and just came out in tests last year. They were debating to give inferon becuase they did not know how it would interact with the lupus but since the hepc was barely detectable they decided to give her strong doses of interferon to knock it out. She is all done now so they are going to just work on her lupus and since the last few months they could not really do anything until the inferon was done. We were getting mixed stories on how hep c and lupus were realted and then we also heard of lipud hep or something like that. She did have blood transfusion many years ago and htey said she could of recieved the hep from that and it was just now starting to come out. My aunt saw an articlue of some sort that said hep c and lupus maybe related im waiting for her to send it to me.   

cured4real?
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 1944
   Posted 11/1/2007 8:03 PM (GMT -7)   
The links I gave you have that info in them about hep and lupus being related, hepatitis can cause lupus like autoimmune problems definitely. How did she handle treatment? I got extremely ill and should I ever need interferon again I will not take it and my docs wouldn't allow it, my reaction was so bad, it would probably kill me. I feel sorry that she had to go through it at her age. Usually they only do it if your liver is really being attacked, since many people with chronic hepatitis, even chronic active hepatitis don't have as much liver damage as you might think. I have friends with chronic hepatitis c that have never been treated and probably never will because it doesn't bother them and they are otherwise healthy. There is an autoimmune hepatitis but I'm sure they tested her for that. Definitely interferon causes lupus, but the treatments now aren't as bad, I've heard, and they now modify the dose if someone is experiencing problems. Back in my day, they never modified the dose, no matter how sick someone got, because they believed that 3million units was necessary to kill the virus. Now they know better. Well, I'm glad she got through it alright and hopefully it is gone for good.
Love, Marji
--Doctors are men who prescribe medicines of which they know little, to cure diseases of which they know less in human beings of whom they know nothing.--Voltaire (1694-1778)
Ills--Sjogrens-Lupus-like AI Disease, Hashis, Vitiligo, spinal stenosis/fusion with plate, salivary/lymphectomies, Diabetes, NAFLD, COPD, RLS, neuropathy, trigonitis, hystero, diffuse brain atrophy
Meds--Plaquenil, Evoxac, Metformin, Synthroid, HCTZ, Estradiol patch, Prosed, Klonopin, Soma, Ultram, Vicodin, Restasis, Albuterol,steroid injections, Protopic & Triamcinolone Acetonide ointments


Brismom
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2014
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 10/30/2014 11:15 PM (GMT -7)   
cured4real is absolutely right! I am an RN and I have hep c and have just been diagnosed with lupus. I think they will probably diagnose me with other autoimmune diseases before they get done. I am a complete mess. I know I have probably had hep c for 30 years or more and about 5 years ago I started having really bad fatigue, blurred vision, hot and cold flashes, weakness, skin itch, memory loss, insomnia, joint pains, anxiety, etc. etc. So it literally took years and they finally diagnosed me with lupus 2 weeks ago and now they are testing me to rule out MS also. Just like cured4real said, and to put it very simple, your immune system is working overtime to knock out that virus, until it goes nuts and starts destroying the good cells. It makes total sense and if you read literature on lupus it will tell you they suspect a chronic virus such as hep c that brings it on. I am going to see the GI guy next month to see if I should treat. I have never treated before because I was too afraid of the cure but now they have better drugs. If it's going to make everything worse than I probably wont do it~but honestly, as bad as I feel, I don't have much to lose:(
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