Guys, please join me in giving niacin a try for Lyme

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Sulma
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Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/1/2008 7:36 PM (GMT -6)   
GUYS PLEASE JUST TRY THIS FOR A FEW WEEKS. THAT'LL COST YOU $3.

Sorry for the caps, but I want to quickly grab any post skimmers. This is important. :)

I just occurred to me that for months I really didn't give it any thought that I never heard of anyone else here trying niacin for Lyme, even though I mentioned it works for me in several threads. I thinking now that I am actually really doing you guys a very serious disservice by not jumping up and down to convince everyone here to at least try it for a week. I read a guy talk it up on another lyme board like last year I think and I finally decided to try it myself in Feb this year and to my shock it actually worked as well as the oral abx I used to take.


Guys a bottle of Twinlab brand 1000mg caps costs $6.25 and it lasts me an entire month. Have ANY of us taken anything that really worked for 6 bucks? You can try any brand, but just make absolutely sure it is NOT the no-flush niacin. Flushing is good in this case. (Don't worry, your body will pretty much acclimate to it within a few days)



Here's how you take it:

DAY 1: 2 one-half capsules twice daily at least four hours apart after full meals (these are really big caps and are easy to just pull apart, pour out half, and put back together).Total of 1000mg a day

DAY 2-5: 1 cap twice daily taken at least four hours apart after full meals. 2k total a day

[If you herx between day 3 and 5, day one full day off and run your detox routines heavier than normal]

DAY 6-14: If you didn't herx, then go up to one cap four times daily. If you are under about 150 pounds you should probably stay at this dose unless you have been in treatment successfully for quite a while and you think your Bb (lyme) load is pretty low. 4k a day.

DAY 15-25: Up to 6 caps a day only if you are a heavier person or have been in recovery for a long time. 6k a day (Dietrich Kinghardt says this is the max dose)

Please don't take this stuff lightly. I would've never thought vitamin B-3 could herx me as miserably as that first fat load of Doxy did, but it has. Good lord it has. I make sure I keep doing my chlorella, cilantro, and saunas everyday while on it b/c if I dont I will herx.



Guys please give it a shot, and post up to let me know how it's working for you. :)

Maureen21
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Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 1599
   Posted 10/1/2008 7:43 PM (GMT -6)   
is there such a thing as taking too much niacin? will your body flush it out? just want to make sure, i think it's okay with the b vitamins.

thanks for posting this. i am off abx now.

Dowa
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Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 1120
   Posted 10/1/2008 7:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Please tell me how does a B vitamin  kill bacteria? And how long do you do this procedure? I am curious, where can I read about this protocal. I know B3 will open up your capillaries as they use it here at the clinic for detoxing chemicals. How will it kill lyme?? D

Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/1/2008 9:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Maureen21 said...
is there such a thing as taking too much niacin? will your body flush it out? just want to make sure, i think it's okay with the b vitamins.

thanks for posting this. i am off abx now.


it's not fat soluble, so there's no danger in doses this low. I read about it myself before taking it due to the same concern as you. The only side effects in doses up to 15,000 were slightly elevated blood sugar (but not even as much as like eating a small Snickers bar or something like that) and dry sinuses. Other sides were all temporary like the flushing, itching and in some cases of people with more sensitivity to it, some chills for the first day or two.

Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/1/2008 9:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Dowa said...
Please tell me how does a B vitamin kill bacteria? And how long do you do this procedure? I am curious, where can I read about this protocal. I know B3 will open up your capillaries as they use it here at the clinic for detoxing chemicals. How will it kill lyme?? D


yeah that's the only method in which it can kill Borrelia as well, by dilating the blood vessels and exposing the bacteria to a lot more oxygen than it can tolerate. I'm not sure if that's the only way it's able to kill it, but whatever is happening it really works. As for the length, I think I read in one of Klinghardt's writings that up to 18 months may be indicated. I'm just going to stay on it as long as I Herx at 4,000mg a day, then go up to 6,000. about once every 6 weeks or so I stop my detoxing for about 3 days to see if I Herx from it, and if I do I know it's still killing that junk.

Look up Dietrich Klinghardt. You should find some of his stuff. He mentions the niacin in more than one of his writings.

Judy2
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 9359
   Posted 10/1/2008 11:10 PM (GMT -6)   

I used to take niacin for a different reason. If the flushes become troublesome (they can make some people feel like they have bad burns all over their body), try slow-release niacin.

Also, ask your regular doc to monitor your liver function, as niacin can affect that. I had to stop taking it because it started shutting my liver down.

Hope it works for you all!


KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 10/2/2008 9:09 AM (GMT -6)   
Judilyn, How long were you taking it for?  Also, what signs or symptoms did you have (liver)?
Thanks, KO
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 


Chris L
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 189
   Posted 10/2/2008 10:02 AM (GMT -6)   
What effects have you noticed on the GI tract??  Diarrhea?  Constipation? 
 
Also, a quick scan of the internet shows that children have overdosed on 5500mgs and on Pubmed an adult overdosed on 11,000mgs.  This was the highest reported case of niacin overdose.    Just an FYI. 

carolynvb
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 540
   Posted 10/2/2008 10:38 AM (GMT -6)   
can you take it with antibiotics?

Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/2/2008 10:50 AM (GMT -6)   
Judilyn said...

I used to take niacin for a different reason. If the flushes become troublesome (they can make some people feel like they have bad burns all over their body), try slow-release niacin.

Also, ask your regular doc to monitor your liver function, as niacin can affect that. I had to stop taking it because it started shutting my liver down.

Hope it works for you all!


Your physician is certain that was a direct result of the niacin, and not because your liver was overloaded with cleaning toxins from the die-off? People without Lyme have taken doses over 10,000 mg daily and not suffered any liver issues.  I know the heavy and prolonged neurotoxin release from killing the bacteria will put a big strain on anyone's liver. 

Post Edited (Sulma) : 10/2/2008 10:06:03 AM (GMT-6)


Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/2/2008 10:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Chris L said...
What effects have you noticed on the GI tract??  Diarrhea?  Constipation? 
 
Also, a quick scan of the internet shows that children have overdosed on 5500mgs and on Pubmed an adult overdosed on 11,000mgs.  This was the highest reported case of niacin overdose.    Just an FYI. 
Chris those anecdotes were from people taking those dosages all at one sitting.  Remember even aspirin or acetaminiphin can cause critical medication emergencies if you take too much at once.
 
Also, you know that an "overdose" is reported by physicians and by Poison Control Centers if anyone ever calls in or reports any sort of unpleasant symptoms.  If someone calls their local PCC or reports to an ER complaining of transistory burning itching and some chills from taking a big dose of niacin that will be recorded as an overdose. If you check on other stuff you'll find "overdoses" for all sorts of stuff.  You'll find it for Vitamin C, Epson Salts, baking soda, pretty much anything. Dont let that alarm you.  
 
I'm extrapolating from Klinghardt's guidelines about taking a max of 6,000mg daily and dosing every 4 hours when I say this program calls for a max of 1500mg at one sitting.
 
Nope no GI problems at all with me.  Niacin is also been shown to be superior to statins now for lowering LDL and triglycerides.  My own tris have dropped from 70 something to 30.   

Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/2/2008 11:04 AM (GMT -6)   
carolynvb said...
can you take it with antibiotics?
I can't say Carol.  That's really one for your physician.  In my case I'd stopped abx before I started the niacin.

yaniv_naced
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 134
   Posted 10/2/2008 11:10 AM (GMT -6)   
Do not take the slow release or the no-flush Niacin - that can cause liver stress.

The plain Nicain is not known to have any adverse effects on the liver.

As with anything, obviously, overdosing is probably not a great idea.

I'm a big fan of Niacin - it allows oxygen to penetrate deep into the tissue and root out parasite and bug colonies. It also allows for deeper penetration of the killing compounds in whatever your taking (abx or herbs).

Try popping some niacin pills before doing cardio - I believe it enhances the effect.

Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4049
   Posted 10/2/2008 2:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Anybody get severe unrelenting shakiness, jitters, & insomnia from Niacin? That's what happens to me when I try to take more than the minimal RDA amount for Niacin (happens with Niacinamide too).
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Anemia, Lymphopenia, intermittant Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Vitamin B12 Shots, Heparin (to flush PICC line).


Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/3/2008 11:25 AM (GMT -6)   
yaniv_naced said...
Do not take the slow release or the no-flush Niacin - that can cause liver stress.

The plain Nicain is not known to have any adverse effects on the liver.

As with anything, obviously, overdosing is probably not a great idea.

I'm a big fan of Niacin - it allows oxygen to penetrate deep into the tissue and root out parasite and bug colonies. It also allows for deeper penetration of the killing compounds in whatever your taking (abx or herbs).

Try popping some niacin pills before doing cardio - I believe it enhances the effect.
That's what I was also just reading about it myself, yaniv.  That's it's actually the no-flush Niacinamide preparation that stresses the liver and that the timed release form of it is the most hepatotoxic.
 
To reiterate, this protocol I'm using is NOT timed release and is NOT Niacinamide, but conventional niacin at a max of 1500mg at a sitting. Only side that is not temporary is a slight elevation in blood glucose. I checked mine with a meter for a while to measure the extent of the elevation and it is only about 25 points or so for a few hours.

Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/3/2008 11:28 AM (GMT -6)   
Razzle said...
Anybody get severe unrelenting shakiness, jitters, & insomnia from Niacin? That's what happens to me when I try to take more than the minimal RDA amount for Niacin (happens with Niacinamide too).

Razzle, I can't say for sure, but I would bet those effects would all be temporary, except possibly the insomnia.  I've read, and it's been my personal experience too, that all pretty much all the side effects will disappear if you stay on it consistently.  It's when you keep stopping and starting again because of the sides that the sides continue.
 
about the insomia, that's probably b/c of the increased penetration of oxygen into the brain increasing your alertness. I stopped taking mine within about 5 hours of bedtime and that stopped being a problem for me.

Razzle
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Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4049
   Posted 10/3/2008 2:10 PM (GMT -6)   

Hi Sulma,

Thanks for the reply.  I can take Niacin at 5am and still be jittery and unable to sleep for the next 3 days.  I used to be able to take Niacin when I was a kid, but this jittery stuff started happening after I had a bout with RSD/CRPS, so I'm wondering if the RSD scrambled something with my nerves...because I also can't do acupuncture or my RSD symptoms start returning (even though I've been in remission from the RSD for 7 years).

Thanks & take care,


-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Anemia, Lymphopenia, intermittant Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Vitamin B12 Shots, Heparin (to flush PICC line).


Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/3/2008 2:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Razzle said...

Hi Sulma,

Thanks for the reply.  I can take Niacin at 5am and still be jittery and unable to sleep for the next 3 days.  I used to be able to take Niacin when I was a kid, but this jittery stuff started happening after I had a bout with RSD/CRPS, so I'm wondering if the RSD scrambled something with my nerves...because I also can't do acupuncture or my RSD symptoms start returning (even though I've been in remission from the RSD for 7 years).

Thanks & take care,

WOW.  It does sound like you've developed a real sensitivity to it Raz.  Sorry to hear that.  sad

Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4049
   Posted 10/3/2008 2:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Either that, or my symptoms are herx symptoms...
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Anemia, Lymphopenia, intermittant Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Vitamin B12 Shots, Heparin (to flush PICC line).


Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/3/2008 4:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Razzle said...
Either that, or my symptoms are herx symptoms...

 Could be.  I get the insomnia when I herx too, but I've noticed that chlorella in big doses help that though.  Try a total of 6 grams a day in divided doses and see if that helps. That stuff is amazing.  It totally nuked the lyme arthritis that was running wild all over my body.  Incredible stuff.

KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 10/16/2008 12:25 PM (GMT -6)   
bump
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 


KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 10/18/2008 1:00 PM (GMT -6)   
I asked my doc the other day about niacin and she said "If the hot flashes are a problem take it with an aspirin".
KO
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 


Judy2
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 9359
   Posted 10/18/2008 1:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Sulma said...
Judilyn said...

I used to take niacin for a different reason. If the flushes become troublesome (they can make some people feel like they have bad burns all over their body), try slow-release niacin.

Also, ask your regular doc to monitor your liver function, as niacin can affect that. I had to stop taking it because it started shutting my liver down.

Hope it works for you all!


Your physician is certain that was a direct result of the niacin, and not because your liver was overloaded with cleaning toxins from the die-off? People without Lyme have taken doses over 10,000 mg daily and not suffered any liver issues.  I know the heavy and prolonged neurotoxin release from killing the bacteria will put a big strain on anyone's liver. 
I don't have Lyme. I was taking Niacin for hyperlipidemia, under doctor supervision. When I started, it was a low dose which was slowly increased over time to watch the reaction. Every time I took it, I flushed terribly. The flushes aren't dangerous, merely very distressing for some people. And certainly not everyone would get liver toxicity, but it is a known potential side effect. When I stopped the niacin the liver function went back to normal, so in my case that seemed to be the problem.

Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/18/2008 7:02 PM (GMT -6)   
KO-LD said...
I asked my doc the other day about niacin and she said "If the hot flashes are a problem take it with an aspirin".
KO


and caffeine consumption and cardio will make it worse, until you acclimate at least, so start slow.

KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 10/21/2008 3:44 PM (GMT -6)   
How long do you stay on it, and what is a "maintenance dose"?
KO
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 

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