Guys, please join me in giving niacin a try for Lyme

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Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/21/2008 7:43 PM (GMT -6)   
KO-LD said...
How long do you stay on it, and what is a "maintenance dose"?
KO


Klinghardt mentioned 18 months at the therapeutic dose. I usually go off it every 4-6 weeks for 4-5 days b/c the build-up of some of the toxins. I'm in a off week now b/c joint soreness was coming back all over the place after several weeks on. I pump up the chlorella to 9 grams a day for a week. Already after 3 days off the joint pain is probably down 80%.

I'm planning on one 2k mg dose each morning as my maintenance dose just b/c it's hard to know if you ever really totally nuke Borrelia.

KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 10/23/2008 10:32 PM (GMT -6)   
I just got my Niacin a few days ago.  I haven't started it yet b/c I've been sick with diarrhea for the last 2 days.  I'll post what I think as soon as I feel up to starting it.  Right now I am wiped out, and just want to sleep.
KO
 
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 


DarMar
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 10/26/2008 5:23 PM (GMT -6)   

Hi Sulma,

I bought some probiotics and niacin last night and wanted to start with the probx first until I do some more reading about the niacin.... confused and disoriented as I am, I actually took the niacin (500mg) instead and went to a visit some friends.... Can you imagine the panic I created when I sat down and sturted flushing, burning... first my head/ face, then everywhere throughout my body. At first it was red spots there and there, but then I became all red. I think my eyes were the only ones not getting red :()

I realized what I did when I came home and saw the probiotic bottle not opened...

I really scared me, but I took another dose this morning too and same thing happened: flushed like badly burned, itchy all over my body...my heart palpitations (that I get when tired) started shaking my body and when the burning starts going away after about 2 hours, I start getting the chills.

I was just back to my normal and the time came to take the next round...

Is this normal? Am I going to have more of these reactions tomorrow as well... I just have to be questioned why I look like I just came out of the oven?

I haven't been diagnosed with Lyme, but I have been suspecting I have it for 4-5 years now. (No doctor in the area that has any clue about it, nor testings are available) Are my strong reactions to niacin telling me there is a parasite of any kind in my body and my body is fighting it? Or that's usual side effect of the niacin?

Sorry for all these questions, but right now, as dissapointed I am with all the doctors alive, I don't feel like getting more messed up then I actually am.

Thank you


yaniv_naced
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 134
   Posted 10/26/2008 11:21 PM (GMT -6)   
The burn/flush/itch is normal - it is just the mast cells releasing histamines that causes you to itch.
The reaction is worse when the niacin is taken on an empty stomach.

Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/28/2008 2:09 PM (GMT -6)   
DarMar said...
Hi Sulma,

I bought some probiotics and niacin last night and wanted to start with the probx first until I do some more reading about the niacin.... confused and disoriented as I am, I actually took the niacin (500mg) instead and went to a visit some friends.... Can you imagine the panic I created when I sat down and sturted flushing, burning... first my head/ face, then everywhere throughout my body. At first it was red spots there and there, but then I became all red. I think my eyes were the only ones not getting red :()

I realized what I did when I came home and saw the probiotic bottle not opened...

I really scared me, but I took another dose this morning too and same thing happened: flushed like badly burned, itchy all over my body...my heart palpitations (that I get when tired) started shaking my body and when the burning starts going away after about 2 hours, I start getting the chills.

I was just back to my normal and the time came to take the next round...

Is this normal? Am I going to have more of these reactions tomorrow as well... I just have to be questioned why I look like I just came out of the oven?

I haven't been diagnosed with Lyme, but I have been suspecting I have it for 4-5 years now. (No doctor in the area that has any clue about it, nor testings are available) Are my strong reactions to niacin telling me there is a parasite of any kind in my body and my body is fighting it? Or that's usual side effect of the niacin?

Sorry for all these questions, but right now, as dissapointed I am with all the doctors alive, I don't feel like getting more messed up then I actually am.

Thank you


Totally normal. And like yaniv_naced said, the flushing is worse on an empty stomach. Also cardio and caffeine can make it worse. The chills are also a symptom of the niacin. If you keep taking it they probably won't reoccur. No the reactions don't have anything to do with your infections, just a symptom of your body's total lack of tolerance to B3 (niacin) in bigger doses.

So that was 3 days ago. Are you sticking with the regular doses? If you do you'll find the flushing will pretty much totally go away.

DarMar
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 10/30/2008 7:29 PM (GMT -6)   

Thanks Sulma,

I am now on day 5 at 2000 ...still flushing, but not that strong...My heart palpitations are getting worse though... I wake up in the morning with it, the itchy lower neck got itchier, had stomack pain the first 2-3 days, but OK now, my arms are coming to life (no freezing for 3 nights now, UTI - haven't got it yet and it would usually reappear 7-10 days after stopping the abx (10days now); my yeast infection got worse the 3rd day and now better; eyes getting dryer and irritated though; I got mouth sores on the inside walls, but better today, pain in the neck still here, but I am seeing a chiropractor as well, so hope it will go away soon.. Overall better then I expected...

I am just scared to go to 4000 a day tomorrow because of my heart... If you had the same symptoms, let me know... I was thinking of increasing the doze tomorrow by 500 more only/ 3000 a day..

Also, I was looking for a detox kit and they are quite expensive $65 and over... Do you know a web-site where I can order for cheaper something that can actually work and is not a scam? Thank you for all your help. For the first time after so many years I have faith that I actually will get better instead of getting worse and worse. I even started to convnce myself that the doctors were right - Am I going crazy???


Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/31/2008 1:15 AM (GMT -6)   
DarMar said...
Thanks Sulma,

I am now on day 5 at 2000 ...still flushing, but not that strong...My heart palpitations are getting worse though... I wake up in the morning with it, the itchy lower neck got itchier, had stomack pain the first 2-3 days, but OK now, my arms are coming to life (no freezing for 3 nights now, UTI - haven't got it yet and it would usually reappear 7-10 days after stopping the abx (10days now); my yeast infection got worse the 3rd day and now better; eyes getting dryer and irritated though; I got mouth sores on the inside walls, but better today, pain in the neck still here, but I am seeing a chiropractor as well, so hope it will go away soon.. Overall better then I expected...

I am just scared to go to 4000 a day tomorrow because of my heart... If you had the same symptoms, let me know... I was thinking of increasing the doze tomorrow by 500 more only/ 3000 a day..

Also, I was looking for a detox kit and they are quite expensive $65 and over... Do you know a web-site where I can order for cheaper something that can actually work and is not a scam? Thank you for all your help. For the first time after so many years I have faith that I actually will get better instead of getting worse and worse. I even started to convnce myself that the doctors were right - Am I going crazy???


Couple of things.

If you have yeast problems right now, you probably should consider discontinuing the niacin until you get that totally nuked. Yeast likes B vitamins and the Niacin will feed it, making it harder to get rid of. Freeze dried garlic will kill the yeast with amazing speed. (gotta be freeze dried though, no other preparations are nearly as potent) I use the Pharmax brand. 8000mg daily for maybe just a week and you may have no yeast symptoms at all anymore, but I'd stay on it like that for at least two weeks to totally kill it. Take digestive enzymes no closer than 4 hours to the garlic, or the garlic will just kill those too before they can begin to colonize your GI tract.

If you're concerned about the heart palps then by all means, lower your dose for a while. The palps could be a sign of neurotoxin build up caused by the antibiotic effect of the Niacin. What you're describing though is EXACTLY the same Niacin provoked Herxes I get. Make sure your electrolyte intake is good, like calcium, magnesium, sea salt, and you're well hydrated. One suggestion about your dosing schedule, I've learned that taking the niacin at bedtime making the Herxes worse so you might want to avoid that. I take my last dose no closer than about 5 hours to bedtime.

You should be on a good detox program when doing the Niacin or you will definitely start feeling a lot worse. I do plenty of chlorella (empty stomach always), cilantro and infrared sauna daily, otherwise I start feeling really dreadful on the Niacin. If you don't start detoxing they'll get intolerable. The sauna has worked wonders for me. I use Source Naturals chlorella off the Vitacost ($13 a bottle) site and fresh cilantro from the grocery store (.89 a bunch). What could well be happening now is the toxins are building faster than your body can clear them, so you should stabilize or lower your Niacin dose until you get your detox protocol supplies.

Yeah the dryness is from the Niacin. To a degree that goes away, but you should be drinking more water to address it now.

Lemme know what happens. :-)

runningiri
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 373
   Posted 10/31/2008 9:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Sulma,

How much chlorella and cilantro do you take for detoxing? How do you take the fresh cilantro? Do you just eat it, juice it, mix it with food or what?

Runningirl

DarMar
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 10/31/2008 9:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Sulma, I don't know how to thank you enough... I will try everything you suggested. 
You were right... I do feel worse today after increasing the niacin by 500mg. not so much about the flushes, as for the shortness in breath and heart palpitations. My joints hurt and feels like I have needles all over my body.  I feel congested in my chest and in my stomach.
I don't know about you, but I always feel the worse when in PMS: can't sleep, headaches and numbness, especially my arms and legs (they would get numb not only at night, but also when driving or just sitting down and not moving much). How does the niacin treatment affect the cycle. Is the bleeding heavier? I will stop the niacin for a while now and get on the garlic and....the detox...and hope for the best.
Thanks
 

Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 11/1/2008 2:23 PM (GMT -6)   
DarMar said...
Sulma, I don't know how to thank you enough... I will try everything you suggested.
You were right... I do feel worse today after increasing the niacin by 500mg. not so much about the flushes, as for the shortness in breath and heart palpitations. My joints hurt and feels like I have needles all over my body. I feel congested in my chest and in my stomach.

I don't know about you, but I always feel the worse when in PMS: can't sleep, headaches and numbness, especially my arms and legs (they would get numb not only at night, but also when driving or just sitting down and not moving much). How does the niacin treatment affect the cycle. Is the bleeding heavier? I will stop the niacin for a while now and get on the garlic and....the detox...and hope for the best.

Thanks


My period actually totally stopped for two full cycles because I got so skinny for a while. I've always been so lean that I didn't have much bodyfat to lose to trigger amenorrhea. When I have had my cycle though, yes the Herxing did exacerbate all the regular menstruation symptoms.

Yeah you're definitely getting "toxed up" as I call it. Your symptoms are classic neurotoxin build up. You need to get that stuff out of your body. Look into buying one of the Royal Heat brand personal saunas off Ebay like TwinofDar and I bought. I got mine for $199 including shipping and I swear it's the best 200 dollars I've spent on any one LD product since I've been sick. You can fold it up and slide it under your bed when not in use, and believe it or not that cheap little thing REALLY works. Sweating really heavily allows your body to dump so many toxins so quickly that you really feel the difference.

Go ahead and nuke that yeast in your GI tract for a couple of weeks while detoxing. The freeze-dried garlic will actually do both, which is great. The Pharmax brand is awesome, but pricey. If you can afford to buy several bottles you can get it for about $16 a bottle, and a one or two will run you about $19 a bottle. Get back with me later. :-)

DarMar
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 11/4/2008 11:06 PM (GMT -6)   

Hi Sulma...

For the past few days I tried to find freeze-dried garlic in every store in town - no luck... I guess I will have to order it online. In the mean time I just got one made of "deodorized garlic powder" and a detox kit on sale (that doesn't seem to work).... to use until my online order arrives. I also checked the saunas you were talking about. I am always cold (especially now without the niacin), so I would love to "get warmed-up).

Will let you know ... Thank you being with me through all this.


KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 11/12/2008 4:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Everyone,
I just took my first dose about 20 minutes ago.  I now look like I fell asleep in the sun for a couple of hours.  I am really red and have a lot of heat coming off me.  Also, my face feels like I have a bad sunburn and my scalp is burning.  Anyone have their ears feel like they are plugged?  I forgot to take an aspirin with the Niacin like my doctor had suggested.  I took it when I started to feel like this, hope it helps!  How long does this last usually?  I'm glad people mentioned the side effects, otherwise I would of thought I was having a really bad reaction out of the ordinary.  My ears are throbbing.  Well at least I'm not cold anymore!  How many of you have tried this?
Thanks, KO
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 


unwillinghostess
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 63
   Posted 11/12/2008 5:29 PM (GMT -6)   
I get the pressure and fullness in my ears too plus sometimes I'll get a headache from it. Overall I think it's working and the flushing does lessen with time.

DarMar
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 11/13/2008 12:04 AM (GMT -6)   
KO-LD said...
Hi Everyone,
I just took my first dose about 20 minutes ago.  I now look like I fell asleep in the sun for a couple of hours.  I am really red and have a lot of heat coming off me.  Also, my face feels like I have a bad sunburn and my scalp is burning.  Anyone have their ears feel like they are plugged?  I forgot to take an aspirin with the Niacin like my doctor had suggested.  I took it when I started to feel like this, hope it helps!  How long does this last usually?  I'm glad people mentioned the side effects, otherwise I would of thought I was having a really bad reaction out of the ordinary.  My ears are throbbing.  Well at least I'm not cold anymore!  How many of you have tried this?
Thanks, KO

 
Hi KO,
I was even more scared and surprised of the reactions as I actually didn't plan on taking the niacin that evening for the first time (at least not consciously). It's very unpleasant burning feeling, but you will get used to it in time. I am off of it at the moment and I miss the warmness. I was warm for the first time in a long, long time too.
And yes - it all starts with the scalp, and slowly moves down all the way to the toes. As you probably know by now, the first several days while you are still increasing the doze it's almost 3 hours until it totally disappears. But that is probably different for everyone.
 
I am not going back to the niacin soon... I guess... I am still fighting the yeast (it doesn't want to go away)
Good Luck

Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 11/13/2008 10:19 PM (GMT -6)   
Wow...some people are trying it. Awesome!

Someone mentioned the freeze-dried garlic and I want to mention something about it I've experienced.

For a while I had to learn how to take niacin when also taking the freeze-dried garlic because it seemed as if I couldn't tolerate nearly as much niacin without Herxing. Now just lately I've read that well preserved or fresh garlic (in sufficient doses) weakens the Borrelia biofilm. I guess then it makes sense then that exposing the Borrelia to the niacin would then to kill off more of it. Holy cats...be careful with that combo peeps. It lowers my niacin tolerance by like 50%. Just 2,000 mgs a day of Niacin Herxed me like 4,000 did w/o the garlic.

Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 11/13/2008 10:22 PM (GMT -6)   
DarMar said...
Hi Sulma...

For the past few days I tried to find freeze-dried garlic in every store in town - no luck... I guess I will have to order it online. In the mean time I just got one made of "deodorized garlic powder" and a detox kit on sale (that doesn't seem to work).... to use until my online order arrives. I also checked the saunas you were talking about. I am always cold (especially now without the niacin), so I would love to "get warmed-up).

Will let you know ... Thank you being with me through all this.


Hey Dar. Sorry, I should have forewarned you that no one carries freeze-dried in the stores. I've searched pretty exhaustively for the best prices on the really good stuff and this place beats everyone, provided you can afford to buy it in bulk. Less than one bottle should nuke your yeast though.

http://www.healingedge.net/store/more_pha_freezedg.html

Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 11/13/2008 10:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Yeah the first doses can be heinous. Same thing will happen if you miss a few days and then restart. I've come to associate the flushing with some lyme buttkickage though, and like it in a perverse way. tongue

Remember as much as you are finding that burning and flushing unpleasant, the Borrelia is suffering more. It cannot take all that oxygen suffusing your tissues.

Watch out for the impending Herx signs though. Niacin is the ONLY homeopathic remedy I've ever taken that Herxed me like the antibiotics did. Label warnings notwithstanding, none of those herbal remedies never triggered Herxes like Rocepherin, Doxy, or plain old Vitamin B-3.

KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 11/14/2008 2:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Can anyone suggest a link for good info on Niacin, I've looked at a bunch of different sites and they all have something different to say.
 
P.S. Just started my first day at 2000mg, so far so good!
 
P.S.S.  FYI the aspirin really helps with the side effects, I'm taking a low dose enteric coated 81mg Aspriin.
 
KO
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 


KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 11/15/2008 12:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Sulma,
When you bump up to 4k a day do you take 1k at a time and do you still need to keep the doses at least 4 hrs apart?
Thanks, KO
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 


KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 11/15/2008 1:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Sulma,
Could you post a link for Dr. Klinghardt's Niacin tx?  I haven't been able to find specifics only where it is mentioned briefly.  Thanks, KO
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 


Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 11/15/2008 5:26 PM (GMT -6)   
KO-LD said...
Sulma,
When you bump up to 4k a day do you take 1k at a time and do you still need to keep the doses at least 4 hrs apart?

Thanks, KO


KO, I pulled together Klinghardt's comments on Niacin mostly from 3-4 different places. You've probably read his Beyond Antibiotics paper, which seems to be the one most linked, but he also talks about the Niacin therapy in a few others. I wish I could remember some of of the other places where I read about it, but I didn't download the pdf's on some of them. There are also some Autism sites that link his stuff, so you can look there.

I never take more than 1500 mgs at a sitting, and 3.5 hours is the closest I do the doses. I tried 6,000mg briefly, but it's just too much die off for my body to eliminate, and I Herxed despite my best efforts at diligent detoxing, so in practice it's been 1,000 at each sitting for me.

I'm not sure about that aspirin with the Niacin. What you're calling "side effects" is I believe part of the therapeutic effect. If you reduce it with ancillary drugs I'm not sure how effective the Niacin will continue to be.

KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 11/16/2008 12:24 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Sulma,
Can you describe your herx's that you had from the Niacin?  Just wondering what to expect in my near future!  Thanks, KO
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 


Smiffy51
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 35
   Posted 11/16/2008 11:06 AM (GMT -6)   
It makes my skin itch frantically. Is there any way of preventing this does anyone know, please?

KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 11/19/2008 12:26 AM (GMT -6)   
Have any of you that are trying the Niacin had any stomach issues?  I've had some nausea and today I've had a burning in my stomach that started last very early in the AM.  I didn't take anything today, I just felt too crummy.  I only got up to 3000mg/day.  I've only been on the Niacin for a few days. 
Thanks, KO
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 


nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 11/19/2008 10:57 AM (GMT -6)   
This is interresting and I will give it a try. I tried it many years ago because it was supposed to help migraines. The flushing, burning, stinging was unbelieveable! My whole body was red. Are you sure that your body adapts and you stop having this reaction?

I think the B vitamins must be very helpful with lyme. B6 is often dificient and now I hear B12 too.
I take 24 herbal pills a day. Iam going to have to get much bigger pill boxes!
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