darkfield microscope

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GOLDPAN6
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 41
   Posted 10/8/2008 10:40 PM (GMT -6)   
 

Has anyone thought of buying a darkfield microscope? I am thinking it would be possible to catch Borrelia Spirochaetes through body fluid. (blood,semen,urine,siliva)  I noticed the cost of a darkfield microscope does not cost that much in comperison to medical bills. I found one very capable of viewing over 40x to 1600x in the cost range of 400 bucks. Borrelia Spirochaetes  show up real nice under 400x magnification. (Check Wikipedia) I know the task would not be easy but I could run various samples each week and just might get lucky. I am being treated even with an equivocal lyme test and am not making the progress I think I should be making.

I would love to catch one of the little buggers just to put it in the face of the doctors that turned me away.

For me it would add some empowerment to a very depressing situation.

 Any thoughts?

 

PS This is in no way meant to suggest anyone to not see an LLMD or stop seeing an LLMD.


Razzle
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Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4026
   Posted 10/9/2008 1:11 AM (GMT -6)   
It would be cool to have a microscope to try to catch the little buggers. It may require a special stain to be able to see the spirochetes under the microscope, though. You might want to contact Alan MacDonald (the Pathologist seen in the documentary "Under Our Skin") about how to best view the spirochetes...

His personal website is http://www.molecularalzheimer.org/ - his email address is on the website.

Also, remember that Spirochetes have other forms besides spiral shaped, and also that they prefer tissue vs. fluids.

Good luck & take care,
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Anemia, Lymphopenia, intermittant Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Vitamin B12 Shots, Heparin (to flush PICC line).


Jeannie143
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 6047
   Posted 10/9/2008 1:13 AM (GMT -6)   
The ones I found at MicrobeWiki were all photographed with an electron microscope and were less than 6 microns across... Don't know if your telescope would be strong enough?
~ Jeannie, Forum Moderator/Diabetes & Fibromyalgia
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. ~Mother Teresa

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


Chris L
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 189
   Posted 10/9/2008 9:19 AM (GMT -6)   
GoldPan,
 
There is a person on the Lymenet forum that says he uses a darkfield microscope all the time to view Lyme.   He might be a good resource to start with.  Keep us posted, because I too would be interested in purchasing a DF miscroscope for the same purpose. 
 
Thanks!

GOLDPAN6
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 41
   Posted 10/9/2008 9:32 AM (GMT -6)   

I did read about the stain on the slide's that make it better to see. I read the book "Cure Unknown".  I would have to look into that more to see if it is requierd or just make it better. I do understand the little buggers like tissue better but they do get into everything. I don't think it would be that hard and the cost to pay someone to do this would pay for the equipment one time. I know it would cost me more then 400 bucks for a doctor to request it and a lab person to sit down and just look at it. One might have to do this 20 or 50 times to catch one Spirochaete. I could do this each week at a one time cost.  The curly rod shape is very uneek.

Thanks Jeannie, I did not think about the field of view. I will keep that in mind if I follow through with this.

 


Maureen21
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Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 1599
   Posted 10/9/2008 7:20 PM (GMT -6)   

i think you have to use a phase contrast microscope.  the person you are mentioning over on lymenet helped me find one.  i ended up getting a darkfield/phase contrast microscope, i also got a camera that can do videos too, a few weeks ago, but have not attempted to try it out yet.  i need my husband to  help me out, and he has been away for work a lot, so it is on hold- he won't be back until next week, so i plan on trying it then. 

 

 

 

 


Maureen21
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Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 1599
   Posted 10/9/2008 7:20 PM (GMT -6)   
oh yes, and you use immersion oil with it. 

GOLDPAN6
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 41
   Posted 10/9/2008 8:57 PM (GMT -6)   
So I am to understand it can be done? I have no intention of taking a picture of it. I was thinking of trapping the bacterium between two glass slides and driving over the the doctors office for a face to face,well lets say... "meeting"
The easy part is getting a microscope that will see 400x The harder part is making it contrast to make it easyier to see. (immersion oil?) Not sure what that is. Can I buy it at a chemistry supply place?

Maureen21
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Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 1599
   Posted 10/10/2008 4:06 PM (GMT -6)   
hmmmm..... not sure about trapping it and taking it to doctor. i would think you need fresh blood to see the spirochetes. i think the phase contrast does what a stain would do. a regular microscope wouldn't work for seeing bacteria i don't think. i just know the immersion oil is used for the phase contrast microscope. not sure where you buy it, it came with my microscope- maybe ebay? that is where i got my microscope.

bablymers
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 1458
   Posted 11/6/2008 2:49 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi everyone! How is this "project" going? Anybody have success finding the creeps? How do you destroy them after viewing?

Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4026
   Posted 11/6/2008 3:13 AM (GMT -6)   
Bablymers,

UV light would probably kill them. Take care,
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Anemia, Lymphopenia, intermittant Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; G-J Tube; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Vitamin B12 Shots, Heparin (to flush PICC line).


Chris L
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 189
   Posted 11/6/2008 9:39 AM (GMT -6)   
I hate to ask the obvious, but if Lyme could easily be seen under a certain microscope, why wouldn't this method be used to confirm Lyme?   Even if it is in tissue more then fluid, it would seem a skin and muscle biopsy would be considered a routine test for Lyme, and not things like the ELISA and Wester Blot.

phsinvent
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 1136
   Posted 11/6/2008 2:50 PM (GMT -6)   

I'd be careful if you are listening to JamesC. over at lymenet. In my opinion, he took way to many rounds of lariam that I warned him not to take.

If you have the extra time and $ then why not, it might give you a new hobby. But i think many people confuse macrophages etc as pathogens. I wish you luck in trying to view a spirochete at home with a microscope. But this would have been done long ago in the family dr's office if it was that easy.


Maureen21
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 1599
   Posted 11/15/2008 12:08 AM (GMT -6)   
i don't think the person on lymenet is using a darkfield microscope, but rather a phase contrast microscope. i still haven't gotten into this too much yet. i know that doug maclean (doug coil machine) used a darkfield microscope to see what frequencies would work to kill the spirochetes. i know that alan macdonald (mentioned in the book cure unknown) uses a darkfield microscope as well.... however, i think i agree with some that you can definitely confuse what you are seeing. i am going to use mine to test different rife frequencies mainly... i am off abx. for now. i just need to find the time, but i do think it is interesting and would like to dabble with it....
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