Evidence Shows Spirochetes Persist After Antibiotic Treatment

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Palmetto Lance
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 466
   Posted 10/30/2008 1:36 PM (GMT -6)   
No big surprise here, just more evidence in our corner...
 

1. More Evidence Showing that Lyme Spirochetes May Persist Even After Antibiotic Treatment

Abstract: The effectiveness of antibiotic treatment was examined in a mouse model of Lyme borreliosis. Mice were treated with ceftriaxone or saline solution for one month, commencing during the early (three weeks) or chronic (four months) stages of infection with Borrelia burgdorferi. Tissues from mice were tested for infection by culture, PCR, xenodiagnosis, and transplantation of allografts at one and three months after completion of treatment.

In addition, tissues were examined for the presence of spirochetes by immunohistochemistry. In contrast to saline solution-treated mice, mice treated with antibiotic were consistently culture negative, but tissues from some of the mice remained PCR positive, and spirochetes could be visualized in collagen-rich tissues.

Furthermore, when some of the antibiotic-treated mice were fed on by Ixodes scapularis ticks (xenodiagnosis), spirochetes were acquired by the ticks, as determined based upon PCR results, and ticks from those cohorts transmitted spirochetes to naïve SCID mice, which became PCR positive but culture negative.

Results indicated that following antibiotic treatment, mice remained infected with non-dividing but infectious spirochetes, particularly when antibiotic treatment was commenced during the chronic stage of infection.

Hodzic E, et al. Persistence of Borrelia burgdorferi following Antibiotic Treatment in Mice. Antimicrob Agents Chemother. 2008;52(5):1728-36.

http://www.dragonsmedicalbulletin.com/b_clinical.html#1


Dx History: Lyme, Bartonella, Babesiosis
Rx History: Doxycycline (3 months), Biaxin/Plaquenil (5 months), Levaquin (1 month), Mepron/Zithromax/Flagyl/Artemisinin (4 months), Doxycycline/Zithromax/Flagyl (2 months), Mepron/Zithromax/Artemisinin/Levaquin/Flagyl (4 months), Omnicef/Levaquin/Zithromax/Flagyl (current)


Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 10/30/2008 5:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Palmetto Lance said...
No big surprise here, just more evidence in our corner...



http://www.dragonsmedicalbulletin.com/b_clinical.html#1

\

Great link, Lance! Gracias mi hermano. The nation needs more sound clinical research on Bb and it's resistance to conventional abx tx.

janem
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 423
   Posted 10/30/2008 5:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Lance - Hope you are doing a bit better ? I see that you are taking Flagyl alongside Mepron and Zith ...is this tough wrt Herx ??

yaniv_naced
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 134
   Posted 10/30/2008 11:09 PM (GMT -6)   
"non-dividing but infectious spirochetes"

That is curious observation. Does that mean that there will no more increase in the spirochete population after abx treatment?

trytocancel
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 263
   Posted 10/31/2008 9:25 AM (GMT -6)   
and does it also mean that antibiotic treatment is not the answer??

<FONT color=blue>*no dx until 6/2007- clinical dx at llmd with a mildly positive bart test

hypermobility syndrome</i> dx, finally one western blot that no one knew how to read, and a nice round of prednisone to finish me off
June-August...Ceftin
August - October ....Roecefin IV, 9.5 weeks
October - worse than ever, bedridden, new LLMD pulled IV
October - March 21...biaxin & plaquenil, (worked a miracle),climbed step first time in 14mos
Jan - March 21...tetracycline (on and off 4 times bc hard to tolerate)

March 21 - April 19....stopped all prescription drugs, best month yet

July & August: DIFLUCAN...more improvement

September: Zithro + Mepron FOR 5 Days! Wanted to die on it, so back to diflucan for now


Palmetto Lance
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 466
   Posted 10/31/2008 9:36 AM (GMT -6)   
lita31 said...
and does it also mean that antibiotic treatment is not the answer??

I guess that's left up to interpretation. In my opinion, I think this research suggests that antibiotics must be administered longer than 1 month; proving that the organism can survive by burrowing into tissues. I don't think the validity of antibiotics in Lyme treatment are questioned, rather I think it answers more of a duration of treatment question (i.e. > 1 month).
 
But, I'm sure the IDSA will "file" (i.e. place it gently in their trash can) this one away with the other evidence supporting a longer duration of treatment.
 
Janem, I'm doing much better, thanks for asking. How are you getting along? Actually, I am on Omnicef, Levaquin, Zithromax, and Flagyl at the moment. I pulse them, so it's not nearly as difficult as it sounds. When I was originally on Mepron, Zith, and Flagyl, I had some EVIL herxes that put me in bed for a couple of days. The herxes have subsided tremendously...and I attribute Flagyl to a great deal of my success.
Dx History: Lyme, Bartonella, Babesiosis
Rx History: Doxycycline (3 months), Biaxin/Plaquenil (5 months), Levaquin (1 month), Mepron/Zithromax/Flagyl/Artemisinin (4 months), Doxycycline/Zithromax/Flagyl (2 months), Mepron/Zithromax/Artemisinin/Levaquin/Flagyl (4 months), Omnicef/Levaquin/Zithromax/Flagyl (current)


janem
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 423
   Posted 10/31/2008 10:15 AM (GMT -6)   
Like you Lance - much better thanks . Dancing the Lyme /Babs game ...trying to knock both of the b.....s out simultaneously !

peter j
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 126
   Posted 10/31/2008 2:10 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for posting this Palmetto Lance.

One thing we can conclude from this, is that when the mice who is infected with blood from the abx treated mice, does not become culture positive (in contrast to the saline treated group), something has happened to the borrelia bacteria.

And this is really usefull information, which will help 'troubeshooting' with my own condition. I'd like your thoughts on this:

Like the rest of us, I have been sick for years and years. And in the beginning, I started using monotheraphy ceftraixone, and as time went by slowly I got new symptoms (not in a 'herx' way). And I have been thinking a lot about why that could happen. And the two most likely hypothesis was:

when I got treated with (ineffective) ceftraixone the spiroches:
- penetrated tissue which they have not yet been to,
- the bacteria converted from e.g. a mobile form, into a cyst form, and in the process my symptoms changed.

The fact that this happens, points (at least to me) in the direction that spiro's can change long term after ceftraixone treatment. And most likely that change is changing form.

sojourner
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1173
   Posted 10/31/2008 3:03 PM (GMT -6)   

Hi Lance,

Thanks for sharing this.  I had read it previously and agree w/you.  Its always good to hear from you.

And Peter - exactly!

All the more reason for HR741 to be passed for imperative R&D and the develpment of an early diagnostic and "no matter what stage" treatment tool that is targeted specifically to the elusive nature of this drill species. 

If we can see the common sense, it never ceases to amaze me that certain academics cannot; and then I re-center and know the answer to my own frustration - human nature at its best.......and worst.

I appreciate these threads.

Blessings,
Sojourner

"God loves with a great love the man whose heart is bursting with a passion for the impossible." ~booth

www.stylebyheatherrose.com -click "Lyme testimony" and "Lyme Disease" for a panoramic view of the truth.  Lyme disease - coming to a tick near you!

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