Anyone else test positive for IGM, but negative by IGG?

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lynniecat
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 51
   Posted 11/20/2008 12:59 PM (GMT -6)   
This is my story for the last 6 years...

No doctors think I have lyme. They say lupus and fibro. Even my LLD -- actually only sees lyme patients) is on the fence but tips toward yes.

JELAINEP
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2017
   Posted 11/20/2008 1:18 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, I've tested this way. My first LD tests was EIA (Enzyme immunoassay) positive, but my Western Blot was negative (this was done at Tpa Gen. Hospital - not exactly a great cornucopia of Lyme knowledge). My second test was EIA positive and IGM positive, but IGG negative (I don't know which Lab was used). When I finally got to a LLDr. I was tested through Igenex and was postive for Lyme disease.... and I had more than the 5 "required" IGG bands. My test was NY State and CDC positive. Since then I continue to test positive on the IGM part and have also tested positive for Bartonella.. I usually have a few IGG bands too.

In my non-medical opinion, anything positive on the (extremely unreliable Lyme tests) plus a clinical presentation, should be more than enough to diagnose Lyme and begin treatment.
We'll get through today - Jennifer
06/00- The beginning, 08/01-LD positive, 10/01- Igenex and CDC LD positive, 10/02-LD positive, 11/03-LD positive, 10/07-Bartonella positive, CD57=3, 08/25/08 - 10 weeks of IV Rocephin, my first visit to a Pain Mgmt. dr. - she was non-judgemental and will not prescribe me any "opiates" which in the end, is probably a good thing.  Current Rx's 11/12/08: Wellbutrin 300mg, Paxil 60mg, Xanax 5mg, Rozerem 8mg, Darvocet, Acidophilus, Rifampin 600mg, Levaquin 500mg, Lyrica 150 to 300mg,
Medicare/SSDI theme song - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd2B6SjMh_w 
"How much more can I take?", songhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHiR1xeOSs
 


lynniecat
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 51
   Posted 11/20/2008 2:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Hmm I have had IGG and IGM done at 8 times. Always IGM + with 3/5 bands -- I have had them all at various points and always IGG negative not a one band!!!
I guess I gave up lyme as a possibility BUT its always there haunting me. I just wish I either had a positive IGG or a negative IGM! KWIM! I DO NOT want chronic lyme, but I may just have it.

My joint pain is symmetrical and I think in lyme its not, but who knows.


I had a tick bite when I was 10 ( on head and it was filled with blood) and when I was in my 20s on the back of my leg and also filled with blood. I only remembered after I started feeling sick at 36. So if I got it when I was 10 (in NH) or 24 (in MA) maybe the IGG has faded?

kitty9309
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 163
   Posted 11/20/2008 2:13 PM (GMT -6)   

So, your IGM is positive?

Sometimes the IGM persists in Lyme Disease.

The following is from the IgeneX website:

"A positive IgM result with clinical history may be indicative of early Lyme disease or persistent infection in otherwise serologically negative individuals. Recently reported data support our observation that some Lyme patients may have only a restricted IgM response to B. burgdorferi. 16,17 "

I think you do have it according to this. I have read the same thing elsewhere. idea

 

 

 

 


king1234
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 491
   Posted 11/20/2008 2:47 PM (GMT -6)   

I hear your fear. I was only pos one band 31 and IND on 34 41 for the IGM so technically not even pos on that. I was neg on IGG. I was given a clinical dx based off my symptoms and the one pos band but I worry what IF I DONT have lyme and I am pumping all these meds into my system and some other illness is going unnoticed?

 

Ughhh


----------------------------------------------------------------------
33 yr old female
 GERD dx March 2007
Migraines with Aura
IBS
SYMPTOMS  migratory joint/bone pain, extreme joint cracking, feet buzzing/vibrating, right eye pain,mid spine soreness (like a constant bruise) fatigue and dizzy spells, bumps and indents on nails. 
New as of Aug-muscle twitching throughout my bod NONSTOP DAILY EVERYWHERE. 
 TESTS-BloodCBC,ANA,Sed rate,Lupus,RA, Vit D,Anti nuc,Calcium.TSH T3 -Too many to list -all CLEAR
 Scans/xraysUltra sound of stomach organs,Sig/colonoscopy (mid way through),MRI of head and spine, full body bone scan-ALL CLEAR
LYME-TESTED POS BAND 31 AND IND ON 34 41 IGM THROUGH IG IN PALO ALTO, GIVEN CLINCAL DX ON 11/17-ON DOXY, ZITHRO, FLAGYL
 
 
 
 
 
 


lynniecat
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 51
   Posted 11/20/2008 4:15 PM (GMT -6)   
King are you both lupus and lyme. I am diagnosed with both by two different doctors??? You seem to be in the same boat!

king1234
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 491
   Posted 11/20/2008 4:29 PM (GMT -6)   

All my blood tests for lupus were fine, and lyme I had one pos two IND on the IGM. My symptoms are noted below. It all just randomly started one day then 3 months later the muscle twitches came on, now latley random numbness in my pointer finger.

I am trying the ab for lyme and will retest. If I have lyme it should be positive after the bacteria comes out from die off.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
33 yr old female
 GERD dx March 2007
Migraines with Aura
IBS
SYMPTOMS  migratory joint/bone pain, extreme joint cracking, feet buzzing/vibrating, right eye pain,mid spine soreness (like a constant bruise) fatigue and dizzy spells, bumps and indents on nails. 
New as of Aug-muscle twitching throughout my bod NONSTOP DAILY EVERYWHERE. 
 TESTS-BloodCBC,ANA,Sed rate,Lupus,RA, Vit D,Anti nuc,Calcium.TSH T3 -Too many to list -all CLEAR
 Scans/xraysUltra sound of stomach organs,Sig/colonoscopy (mid way through),MRI of head and spine, full body bone scan-ALL CLEAR
LYME-TESTED POS BAND 31 AND IND ON 34 41 IGM THROUGH IG IN PALO ALTO, GIVEN CLINCAL DX ON 11/17-ON DOXY, ZITHRO, FLAGYL
 
 
 
 
 
 


JELAINEP
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2017
   Posted 11/20/2008 4:53 PM (GMT -6)   
It's my understanding that RA drs. can test for other RA conditions such as RA, Lupus, etc. and/or their presentation is different than LD. I tested negative on everything RA related..... heck, I've tested negative on every test EXCEPT the LD test.

I would have the RA testing done just to rule it out.... PS - Do NOT take any steroids (which RA's love to prescribe) until you have received your results back and can see whether or not you are positive for any RA condition.

I've been so scared, worried, mis-diagnosed, etc. during the past 8+ years.... I have been tested for EVERYTHING. I believe I have chronic LD.... it's the only positive test I've had.


We'll get through today - Jennifer
06/00- The beginning, 08/01-LD positive, 10/01- Igenex and CDC LD positive, 10/02-LD positive, 11/03-LD positive, 10/07-Bartonella positive, CD57=3, 08/25/08 - 10 weeks of IV Rocephin, my first visit to a Pain Mgmt. dr. - she was non-judgemental and will not prescribe me any "opiates" which in the end, is probably a good thing.  Current Rx's 11/12/08: Wellbutrin 300mg, Paxil 60mg, Xanax 5mg, Rozerem 8mg, Darvocet, Acidophilus, Rifampin 600mg, Levaquin 500mg, Lyrica 150 to 300mg,
Medicare/SSDI theme song - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd2B6SjMh_w 
"How much more can I take?", songhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHiR1xeOSs
 

Post Edited (JELAINEP) : 11/20/2008 4:41:18 PM (GMT-7)


Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4395
   Posted 11/20/2008 5:42 PM (GMT -6)   
I too have positive IgM and negative IgG, both on IgeneX and on another lab's Lyme test. I think it has to do with the Lyme bacteria's ability to disable the immune system. I think it can suppress the natural sero-conversion process in those of us with chronic infection. Also, I read of the concept of antibody recycling - antibodies created a long time ago getting destroyed and the raw materials recycled into new antibodies - during certain types of infections. I think this may occur in the setting of immunodeficiency or immunosuppression, or in the case of lyme when the bug is constantly changing, thus necessitating constant production of new antibodies.

Also, Lyme can elevate ANA but will not always lead to positive specific ANA antibodies (such as Anti-DSDNA, Rheumatoid Factor, Anti-SSA, etc.), so this is one way to distinguish between Lyme and the inflammatory autoimmune connective tissue disorders (that is, if they are separate illnesses...Lyme can do some downright sneaky evil stuff to the body).

Take care,
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Anemia, Lymphopenia, intermittant Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; G-J Tube; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Vitamin B12 Shots, Heparin (to flush PICC line).


lynniecat
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 51
   Posted 11/20/2008 8:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Oh man you guys, I was so settled on it being lupus. Now I am starting to think lyme again. I think I am going to go CRAZY.

king1234
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 491
   Posted 11/20/2008 10:21 PM (GMT -6)   
I still continue to go back and forth on what I could have. I wont feel settled 100% till I get  a true positive or start feeling btr!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
33 yr old female
 GERD dx March 2007
Migraines with Aura
IBS
SYMPTOMS  migratory joint/bone pain, extreme joint cracking, feet buzzing/vibrating, right eye pain,mid spine soreness (like a constant bruise) fatigue and dizzy spells, bumps and indents on nails. 
New as of Aug-muscle twitching throughout my bod NONSTOP DAILY EVERYWHERE. 
 TESTS-BloodCBC,ANA,Sed rate,Lupus,RA, Vit D,Anti nuc,Calcium.TSH T3 -Too many to list -all CLEAR
 Scans/xraysUltra sound of stomach organs,Sig/colonoscopy (mid way through),MRI of head and spine, full body bone scan-ALL CLEAR
LYME-TESTED POS BAND 31 AND IND ON 34 41 IGM THROUGH IG IN PALO ALTO, GIVEN CLINCAL DX ON 11/17-ON DOXY, ZITHRO, FLAGYL
 
 
 
 
 
 


alfers
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 2671
   Posted 11/20/2008 11:55 PM (GMT -6)   
I've consistently had a positive IgM (even by CDC standards) and a negative IgG for the past several years. Don't know why this is, and no doctor has ever seemed concerned about it. I am so confused these days! And now it's 1 in the morning and I should go to sleep. :)
Lyme and co-infections since approximately 2002. Diagnosed in 2005. Treated for two years solid. Diagnosed with Lymphomatoid Papulosis in October 2007. Currently back on abx.

Moderator for Lyme Disease forum


mari33
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 11/22/2008 1:42 AM (GMT -6)   
hello everyone,

i am new at this, but i am currently going out of my mind. Three months ago, i awoke to extreme pain in all my joints and muscle aches. Since then ive had many symptoms and different diagnosis from drs. Above you will see my different symptoms"

right eye pain
nerve pain below my right ear
neck stiffnes and pain
jaw pain (as if they are tearing it apart
funny feeling on my chin
arm stiffness
joint pain
leg pain (especially at night)
stabbing pain all over my body
2 rashes (according to the drs. its ringworm
extreme joint crackling
left elbow pain
shortness of breath
swollen lymph nodes
feet feeling funny
stretchy feeling from bottom of feet
pulling sensation from right arm from hand to bicep
twitching on my right arm
heart palpitations


i have been to the doctors office many times, i am frustrated and they all give me different diagnosis. Please help , any information is appreciated


thank you

king1234
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 491
   Posted 11/22/2008 12:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Wow lots of your sx sound like mine. How did your pain start? What are your pains like? What dx have you been given?
 
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
33 yr old female/GERD dx 3/07/Migraines with Aura/IBS
SYMPTOMS  migratory joint/bone pain, extreme joint cracking, feet buzzing/vibrating, right eye pain,mid spine soreness (like a constant bruise) fatigue and dizzy spells, bumps and indents on nails. 
New as of Aug-muscle twitching throughout my bod NONSTOP DAILY EVERYWHERE. 
 TESTS-BloodCBC,ANA,Sed rate,Lupus,RA, Vit D,Anti nuc,Calcium.TSH T3 -Too many to list -all CLEAR
 Scans/xraysUltra sound of stomach organs,Sig/colonoscopy (mid way through),MRI of head and spine, full body bone scan-ALL CLEAR
LYME-TESTED POS BAND 31 AND IND ON 34 41 IGM THROUGH IG IN PALO ALTO, GIVEN CLINCAL DX ON 11/17-ON DOXY, ZITHRO, FLAGYL
 
 
 
 
 
 


lynniecat
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 51
   Posted 11/22/2008 8:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Yup, those pains sound like mine! You know the amazing thing is how many things your forget! I have had so many weird symptoms over time, its just insane!

Lupus-lyme-lyme-lupus and now polymyositis. Hmmmm round and round and round it goes, where it will stop, no one knows! My MIL says I will just accept the pain and stop trying to find answers. That is what she did. I hope not, I hope to beat this or at least feel comfortable as to what is going on!

king1234
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 491
   Posted 11/22/2008 9:46 PM (GMT -6)   
The pains are incredible! How upset were you when she said you may have to accept pain!?!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
33 yr old female/GERD dx 3/07/Migraines with Aura/IBS
SYMPTOMS  migratory joint/bone pain, extreme joint cracking, feet buzzing/vibrating, right eye pain,mid spine soreness (like a constant bruise) fatigue and dizzy spells, bumps and indents on nails. 
New as of Aug-muscle twitching throughout my bod NONSTOP DAILY EVERYWHERE. 
 TESTS-BloodCBC,ANA,Sed rate,Lupus,RA, Vit D,Anti nuc,Calcium.TSH T3 -Too many to list -all CLEAR
 Scans/xraysUltra sound of stomach organs,Sig/colonoscopy (mid way through),MRI of head and spine, full body bone scan-ALL CLEAR
LYME-TESTED POS BAND 31 AND IND ON 34 41 IGM THROUGH IG IN PALO ALTO, GIVEN CLINCAL DX ON 11/17-ON DOXY, ZITHRO, FLAGYL
 
 
 
 
 
 


lynniecat
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 51
   Posted 11/23/2008 12:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Oh I was not as upset as I was thinking she was wrong, that I would find a way to figure it out. But, honestly lately I think she may be right. I am trying to get pg right now and so not doing any treatments till that is figured out -- I get pg or adopt or what not!

king1234
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 491
   Posted 11/23/2008 2:22 PM (GMT -6)   

If it is lyme though I think you may be able to pass it to the baby.  I just got a puppy-today acutally, a little basset hound-he is all wrinkles and ears. Hopefully he lifts my spirits! We will try for a baby next yr if my health is well.

Can you describe what your pains are like etc? Is it just me or does this seem to rule your life too. I sit up and think, what if its not lyme, what if its something more serious being undetected etc etc

I just want my old life back.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
33 yr old female/GERD dx 3/07/Migraines with Aura/IBS
SYMPTOMS  migratory joint/bone pain, extreme joint cracking, feet buzzing/vibrating, right eye pain,mid spine soreness (like a constant bruise) fatigue and dizzy spells, bumps and indents on nails. 
New as of Aug-muscle twitching throughout my bod NONSTOP DAILY EVERYWHERE. 
 TESTS-BloodCBC,ANA,Sed rate,Lupus,RA, Vit D,Anti nuc,Calcium.TSH T3 -Too many to list -all CLEAR
 Scans/xraysUltra sound of stomach organs,Sig/colonoscopy (mid way through),MRI of head and spine, full body bone scan-ALL CLEAR
LYME-TESTED POS BAND 31 AND IND ON 34 41 IGM THROUGH IG IN PALO ALTO, GIVEN CLINCAL DX ON 11/17-ON DOXY, ZITHRO, FLAGYL
 
 
 
 
 
 


JELAINEP
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2017
   Posted 11/24/2008 4:59 AM (GMT -6)   
king1234 said...

If it is lyme though I think you may be able to pass it to the baby.  I just got a puppy-today acutally, a little basset hound-he is all wrinkles and ears. Hopefully he lifts my spirits! We will try for a baby next yr if my health is well.

Can you describe what your pains are like etc? Is it just me or does this seem to rule your life too. I sit up and think, what if its not lyme, what if its something more serious being undetected etc etc

I just want my old life back.

Ohhhhh - the "puppy cure".  I did the same thing, bought an Australian Shepherd puppy... because all of the drs. said I was "depressed" - haha!  Puppies may help with depression, but they don't cure LD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I also just want my life back.
 


We'll get through today - Jennifer
06/00- The beginning, 08/01-LD positive, 10/01- Igenex and CDC LD positive, 10/02-LD positive, 11/03-LD positive, 10/07-Bartonella positive, CD57=3, 08/25/08 - 10 weeks of IV Rocephin, my first visit to a Pain Mgmt. dr. - she was non-judgemental and will not prescribe me any "opiates" which in the end, is probably a good thing.  Current Rx's 11/12/08: Wellbutrin 300mg, Paxil 60mg, Xanax 5mg, Rozerem 8mg, Darvocet, Acidophilus, Rifampin 600mg, Levaquin 500mg, Lyrica 150 to 300mg,
Medicare/SSDI theme song - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd2B6SjMh_w 
"How much more can I take?", songhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHiR1xeOSs
 


king1234
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 491
   Posted 11/24/2008 12:48 PM (GMT -6)   
Oh boy the pup is exhausting me!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
33 yr old female/GERD dx 3/07/Migraines with Aura/IBS
SYMPTOMS  migratory joint/bone pain, extreme joint cracking, feet buzzing/vibrating, right eye pain,mid spine soreness (like a constant bruise) fatigue and dizzy spells, bumps and indents on nails. 
New as of Aug-muscle twitching throughout my bod NONSTOP DAILY EVERYWHERE. 
 TESTS-BloodCBC,ANA,Sed rate,Lupus,RA, Vit D,Anti nuc,Calcium.TSH T3 -Too many to list -all CLEAR
 Scans/xraysUltra sound of stomach organs,Sig/colonoscopy (mid way through),MRI of head and spine, full body bone scan-ALL CLEAR
LYME-TESTED POS BAND 31 AND IND ON 34 41 IGM THROUGH IG IN PALO ALTO, GIVEN CLINCAL DX ON 11/17-ON DOXY, ZITHRO, FLAGYL
 
 
 
 
 
 


JELAINEP
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2017
   Posted 11/24/2008 1:24 PM (GMT -6)   
I know... I used to try to walk my "Foster" when he was between 6 mos. and 1 1/2 years old.... he actually pulled me so hard a few times... and my knees and strength were so weak, I actually rolled somersaults on the sidewalk.... usually only when other people were out and about AND watching!

Puppies and Lyme disease... maybe "getting a puppy" should be added to the list of Lyme disease symptoms.
We'll get through today - Jennifer
06/00- The beginning, 08/01-LD positive, 10/01- Igenex and CDC LD positive, 10/02-LD positive, 11/03-LD positive, 10/07-Bartonella positive, CD57=3, 08/25/08 - 10 weeks of IV Rocephin, my first visit to a Pain Mgmt. dr. - she was non-judgemental and will not prescribe me any "opiates" which in the end, is probably a good thing.  Current Rx's 11/12/08: Wellbutrin 300mg, Paxil 60mg, Xanax 5mg, Rozerem 8mg, Darvocet, Acidophilus, Rifampin 600mg, Levaquin 500mg, Lyrica 150 to 300mg,
Medicare/SSDI theme song - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd2B6SjMh_w 
"How much more can I take?", songhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHiR1xeOSs
 


Cobaltblue
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 11/25/2008 8:29 AM (GMT -6)   
I discovered an oval rash on my chest 6/3/08. Went to my family doc 2 days later and he gave me a lotion. Rash got bigger and 2 more rashes developed on my legs. I went to a dermatogist office and 10 days later 6/13/08 I was diagnosed by a nurse practitioner with Lyme. Took antibiotic for 26 days. Rash cleared but legs bothering me ever since (burning, tingling and numb) and now I have swollen ankles. I had western blot done 3 times and IGM remains positive with only 2 bands of IGG. My family doctor continues to insist that I don't have Lyme and I tell him yes I do. I have a persistant infection and I believe that is why my IGM is not converting... I went to a foot doctor yesterday and he injected a needle into my right ankle, hope I didn't do the wrong thing.

king1234
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 491
   Posted 11/25/2008 1:35 PM (GMT -6)   

What meds were you put on? It is my understanding that 28 days is not enough. If you are still showing positive and have sx then you still have lyme.

What were your first symptoms pain/sensory wise?


What bands did you test positive for and was it through a standard lab like lcorp?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
33 yr old female/GERD dx 3/07/Migraines with Aura/IBS
SYMPTOMS  migratory joint/bone pain, extreme joint cracking, feet buzzing/vibrating, right eye pain,mid spine soreness (like a constant bruise) fatigue and dizzy spells, bumps and indents on nails. 
New as of Aug-muscle twitching throughout my bod NONSTOP DAILY EVERYWHERE. 
 TESTS-BloodCBC,ANA,Sed rate,Lupus,RA, Vit D,Anti nuc,Calcium.TSH T3 -Too many to list -all CLEAR
 Scans/xraysUltra sound of stomach organs,Sig/colonoscopy (mid way through),MRI of head and spine, full body bone scan-ALL CLEAR
LYME-TESTED POS BAND 31 AND IND ON 34 41 IGM THROUGH IG IN PALO ALTO, GIVEN CLINCAL DX ON 11/17-ON DOXY, ZITHRO, FLAGYL
 
 
 
 
 
 


Cobaltblue
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 11/25/2008 3:11 PM (GMT -6)   
I was on diox for 26 days and then azithromycin for 3 weeks. I went to a LLMD in Aug and he put me on diflucan which I stopped after a few weeks because I didn't think that was the right med for me... Then I saw another LLMD in NYC (neurologist) and he did not give me any meds. He did a lot of test and said I probably have Lyme neuroborreliosis and wanted a lot more tests and labs, I paid him a fortune. My western blots were done at Quest labs, I know not the best. I've also figured that I probably still have an active infection. I wish there was some DECENT doctor around here so I didn't have to travel so far, I live in PA...

Cobaltblue
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 11/25/2008 3:19 PM (GMT -6)   
I meant to say my first western blot showed IGM positive for bands 23, 39 and 41. The second and third WB showed positive for bands 23 and 41 for both IGM and IGG.
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