Herbs against Lyme disease

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Martha's Vineyard
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   Posted 2/12/2009 10:44 PM (GMT -6)   
No I don't have a list. I keep hearing about Herbs to help fight Lyme disease and the co-infections. I am really curious who takes herbs and what kind. And what books that they would recommed to us Herb novices.
And what sort of Dr. would one talk to about herbs.
I want the cliff notes on herbs. Can they be taken with vitamins too?
smilewinkgrin  
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


Razzle
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   Posted 2/13/2009 3:30 AM (GMT -6)   
Stephen Harod Buhner's "Healing Lyme" book talks about some specific herbs and how to use them in the treatment of Lyme and associated symptoms.

Naturopathic physicians usually know more about treating patients using herbs than MD's.

Yes, vitamins and minerals can be taken with herbs.

I was taking herbs prior to total gut shutdown. I was using some herbs I'd found helpful and then I also started the Buhner core protocol herbs for Lyme (Japanese Knotweed, Cat's Claw, Andrographis) and was taking Nettles for joint pain.
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Anemia, Lymphopenia, intermittant Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; G Tube; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Heparin (to flush PICC line), IV Cipro (for G-tube site infection).


nefferdun
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Date Joined Feb 2008
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   Posted 2/13/2009 10:37 AM (GMT -6)   
My LLMD, who practises with a naturalpathic doctor as well, told me Samento, Cumanda, Andrographis and Teasel Rood are what work the best. He said they should be rotated. He also gives Grapefruit seed extract in another preperation for yeast infection - I believe it helps with bartonella. There was a recent thread about herbs - look back a page or two. Quercetin helps with inflammation by reducing cytokines.
St John's Wort is good for depression but it causes sun sensitivity so be careful of exposure.
It is ok to take herbs with vitamins and minerals.

If you believe you are ready to take the herbal route I would strongly suggest contacting an LLMD that uses them, not just any naturalpathic doctor. You need the advice of someone that has treated a lot of patients with lyme. I would also be careful of internet doctors promising cures which are very expensive but have no rotation or follow ups.

sojourner
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Date Joined Apr 2006
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   Posted 2/13/2009 4:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Marie,

Healing Lyme: Natural Healing and Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis and Its Coinfections
by Stephen Harrod Buhner is a good reference; but I would not recommend self medicating w/herbs.
and
The Book of Herbal Wisdom: Using Plants as Medicines by Matthew Wood are two excellent resources that our naturopathic Lyme herbalist studied with just to mention two.

It is always best to be under the guidance of a master herbalist who is trained, particularly in Lyme treatment, to understand the individual and customize a treatment protocol based on the clinical manifestations that any given patient experiences to include deficiencies, complications, co-infections, hormones and contraindications.

There is not a one size fits all with natural protocols. What may work for one can become problematic for another.

I believe nefferdun expressed it well in recommending one who is trained and has success in their field of specialty for herbal treatment. Heth's Dr. Josh was a brilliant naturopathic physician. We are praying his protocol will make publication this year following his recent passing, so that other physicians can continue to carry the torch. He was a teaching practitioner/professor as well and there are others now trained in the basic application of his herbal elixirs/blends and the safest places to purchase to ensure purity, quality and organic harvesting so as to nourish the body while helping it to fight the different pathogens, heal while waking up the immune system to respond once again.

Blessings,
Sojourner

minerals
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Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 943
   Posted 2/13/2009 5:03 PM (GMT -6)   
My LLMD Dr. H said when I am finished with antibiotics he will put me on herbals. I agree you should see a LLMD who is experienced with the bacterias that ticks give. Do not self medicate. Blessings
DX. LYME  7 /03 -I believe I 've had it since 1985- 
oral doxi, amoxi 6 months. Have been bitten 2x since                  
Developed many chemical & food sensitivities& Allergies to many Suppliments
Swollen Burning tongue/lips
Hashimotos Thyroiditis
DX. Babsiosis 4/07 -Malerone 2 wks, Mepron & Azithromax 6 mos. 
Armour Thyroid
Probiotics are a MUST   
Almost died from 3 doses of Plaquanil 12/07
IV Rocephin began 12/4/07
Bactrim began 1/22/07
Stopped Rocephin 3/04/08
DX Micoplasma
Mepron, Azithrommax, Rafampin 5/29/08
Stopped Rifampin began Bactrim and zithro 6/2/08
stopped Mepron 7 22/08
switched from bactrim to levaquin and had bad reaction to levaquin
began Mepron again till Nov, then began Malerone
began Rifampin and Minocycline
Outstare The Darkness--The Light Will Come!


RainBaby
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 41
   Posted 2/15/2009 6:16 PM (GMT -6)   
I used the Buhner herbal protocol while waiting for my first LLND appt, and it kept me from relapsing while off antibiotics (I had previously relapsed every time I tried to stop doxycycline, which my regular doctors let me take for a few months after I had an EM rash).

I had negative reactions to Cat's claw (tendon pain), but I did very well on andrographis and Japanese knotweed/resveratrol. Andrographis is somewhat calming, which can help with the anxiety of Lyme and coinfections. And the knotweed kept my Bartonella down (it would get worse when I stopped the knotweed).

I think the Buhner protocol is a great back-up plan for when you aren't yet under the care of a master herbalist or Lyme doc.

Martha's Vineyard
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Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 2/16/2009 12:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Ok..I took alot of notes! Wow I couldn't believe that I cam across this last night. I am reading this great book: LIVING WELL WITH AUTOIMMUNE DISEASE, BY MARY SHOMON.
She is a NY times best seller also. But I just got to page 227 . HERBAL AND ALTERNATIVE MEICINE FOR AUTOIMMUNE DISEASE.
And she says to look for a expert in Ayurvedic or trational Chinese medicine or a pratitioner who intergrates these approaches into a westerm herbl aprroach.
She cannot emphasize enough how important is it to add a qualified berbalist to your health care team.
Two of the worlds herbalist are Karta Purkh Singh Khalsa, CN,AHG and Alan Tillotson. PHD< AHG, DAy. Both are reow2need members of the American Guild and and diasnostiticins, practioners, educators, and authors with decades of experience. They represent the moswt astute and innovative experts on herbal medicine in the USA.
Khalsa has a book, Herbal Defense.
Alans book is, The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook.
A name that come up also is Patrick Purdue. In Fl. He is highly repected and doctor of Oriental medicine and acupunture.
I am going to run out and get these and also see where all of these Dr.s are located. I want to streghten my immune system as much as I can and stay well.
Anyone else heard of these Dr.s?
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


sojourner
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1173
   Posted 2/16/2009 5:58 PM (GMT -6)   
They are excellent resources as is Mary Sho. She and I met online about 20 years ago when she was a newbie to the thyroid community and I had just been dx w/Hashimotos. It was during the days when no one was really online much except for business. We were able to share and support each other through some tough times. Little did I know that I would one day have a daughter who would battle such a horrific bacteria and face life and death. Little did I know that those days would be connected to what I have now learned and been able to use to help us help our daughter.

Mary is a trusted resource. She has earned tremendous respect b/c of her research and proven principles.

You are doing great, Marie!
You'll be teaching us before long!

Blessings,
Diana

Martha's Vineyard
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Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 2/20/2009 1:21 PM (GMT -6)   
I am just trying to catch up with you Diana!
xo
;)
I am all out for acupunture if it could help with little issues. It just all makes so much sense to me.
How dull am I on a first day...lol
Yeah..I read, I am reading this great book on Autoimmune Disease.....lol
Funny how an illness changes everything. I think I only would enjoy going out with a Dr. now. One that of course agreed with me on everything...ha.
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


LupnerRN
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 350
   Posted 2/20/2009 4:09 PM (GMT -6)   
My LLMD has me on herbals as well as abx.
Andrographis, artemisinin, and lomatium (for parvo).

The andrographis I have is in liquid form and right now my GI tract is so screwed up that I can't handle taking it because of it's intensely bitter taste.

Is anyone taking a pill form? And where did you get it?

I also agree not to take any herbals until you talk with your LLMD. Herbals are drugs too and can be contraindicated with abx. Remember: a chemical is a chemical. It doesn't matter if it's obtained through a pharmacist or the suppliment isle in the supermarket.

luck and blessings to us all
11/07 symptoms start
7/4/08  IGenX LD positive,gluten sensitivity,low magn, low WBC's,+yeast/bacteria/tapeworm/roundworm, EBV,HHV,CMV,Parvo,
7/25/08 started on Biaxin
9/08 IGenX co-infections neg, but probable Bart, Bab, Erhl
11/08  Biaxin,Plaquenil,Cipro, Artemisinin,3 probiotics,Transfer Immune, Bcomplex,MultiVit,omega3,magnesium,
1/29/09  Added: Rifampin 600mg- Ehrl, Lomatium 15dropsBID-parvo, andrographis 15dropsBID (super yuck!)-LD, Alinia-cryptosporidium.   


Martha's Vineyard
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 2/21/2009 1:24 PM (GMT -6)   
I will look for a source.
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


andrean
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 2/22/2009 2:09 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Keep Hope,

You could go to the website of the American Association of Naturopathic Physicians to find doctors who are trained in herbal medicine. This asssociation is for doctors who have taken pre-med and 4 to 6 years of naturopathic medical school.
Chronic Fatigue; Epstein-Barr Virus; IBS; Food allergies to milk, wheat, sugar

I have been helped the most with therapeutic enzymes and botanicals prescribed by Dr. Jenefer Huntoon and Bowtech Bowen gentle manipulation performed by Dr. Jenefer Huntoon


Martha's Vineyard
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 2/22/2009 11:00 AM (GMT -6)   
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Andrean!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your the best!:>)
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


ticker
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 9208
   Posted 2/22/2009 11:28 AM (GMT -6)   
Martha's Vineyard there are many different herbal protocols available.  I agree with the others about seeing a knowledgeable doctor who can properly monitor treatment.  Some Lyme doctors use these protocols and are very familiar with them.

Martha's Vineyard
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 2/22/2009 11:34 AM (GMT -6)   
Ticker,
Your right...I wouldn't think of taking any of these herbs with out a Dr. I know nothing about them.
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


ina
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 8/24/2009 5:06 AM (GMT -6)   
I am sorry to bother you as you all seem to know more than me. I came for my 2 cents worth of knowledge - we contracted lyme disease 4 months ago and still not getting any better just new symptoms galore.

Has anyone tried propolis extract, garlic, stinging nettles (tea/soup), bayleaf, curcumin, tea tree oil, echinaceea, horseradish and other spices or plants known as antibacterial? I am looking at the organic agriculture and into spices to get my inspiration of antibacterial concoctions - bayleaf helps heal leishmaniose according to a japanese study.

also I read a research about human immunoglobulin reducing neurological symptoms of lyme

ina
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 8/24/2009 5:09 AM (GMT -6)   
I forgot to say... coinfections can be anything -viruses and bacterias that you haven t been tested for like brucellosis, ricketsias etc. read about the west nile virus being present in ticks in germany. Let's hope we'l all get well sometime soon!

ina
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 8/24/2009 5:11 AM (GMT -6)   
some herbs do interfere with the antibiotics though - e.g. doxy or same class antibiotics should not be taken with acidic substances (this includes grapeseedextract) or milk and dairy products

Franziska
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 8/24/2009 7:53 AM (GMT -6)   
I am on the Lyme protocol from Dr Zhang and I have strong Herxs.

The Dr.Zhang wrote a book.He wrote that 60% of the Lyme patients can heal with the protocol.

He prescribes Allicin (garlic), Houttuynie ( works against Bartonella too) and Circulation P.

When you have Babesia, you have to make the Babesia protocol with Artemisia for the Lyme protocol.

You can see his Lyme protocoll on his web site :

www.sinomedresearch.org/

www.steveclarknd.com/LymeDisease.htm

peacefulacres.wordpress.com/my-journey-with-lyme-disease/
Lyme since Juli 2008

On Dr Zhang┬┤s Protocol since 7 Mai 2009

Garlic powder SAPEC 2-0-2 = 4 mg Allicin a day
Houttunya Cordata 50 mg 2-0-0 = 100 mg HH a day
Circulation P 0-0-1

I have orded the originalproducts from Dr Zhang (Hepapro).

I am feeling better!


Martha's Vineyard
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Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 8/24/2009 1:00 PM (GMT -6)   
If someone has to do the herb treatment, there is some Dr. in Kansas that does this. It worked very well for some on this forum.
rawvegan did it and had great results immediatly.
But I do not know anything about them.
I myself did alternative medicine along with some abx for my bartonella and lyme.
But that was just my case at the time of my treatment at Envita in Scottsdale AZ. in which I was completely cured and everyone of my 30 symptoms are gone!

ina
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 8/25/2009 5:05 AM (GMT -6)   
so you are lyme free Martha?

Martha's Vineyard
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Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 8/25/2009 7:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Ina,
Yes I am a am completely fine now. It is like coming out of a coma. I had alot of catching up to do.
It is nice to be back.
After having been sick for long, being able to do all of the little things that I missed, I am a much better person now and it changed me.
I stop and smell the flowers and it slowed me way down. I truely appreciate every thing now.
M

nefferdun
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Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 8/25/2009 4:49 PM (GMT -6)   
I am watching Oprah right now and Dr. OZ is explaining MRSA, the super bug that cannot be killed. He said using abx kills all the "good guys" so that this bacteria can take over. 90,000 people get this infection every year. It is living on 10 percent of the population where it can enter the body through a cut etc. It is the result of overuse of abx allowing a super resistant bacteria to develop.

So taking abx for a long period of time can be a bad thing. I am using only herbs right now for lyme and bartonella. I take 16 HH capsules a day for bartonella which is 5 grams of houtynia. For lyme I take 1000mg grapefruit seed extract and 1500 mg TOA free cat's claw every day. This is divided into 4 doses. I have been using this since March and doing as well as when I was on abx.

When I originally posted about this I was of the opinion that you should see an LLMD for herbal treatment. It turned out the LLMD I went to was more interested in what he was getting paid than in helping me. I had a reaction to the abx and was seriously injured. Now I am treating myself, after getting information from books and other people with lyme that share what is working for them

Martha's Vineyard
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Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 8/25/2009 5:02 PM (GMT -6)   
I have gone to so many Dr.s The few so called LLMD's drugged the heck out of me with abx...and I got much worse.
I know of many people who got better on this forum on herbs...many.
I was not one of them. As you know I went to envita for alternative medicine through a surgical port in my chest.
I was interested in what herbs would be helpful for my two kids. Since they are too young for envita and one got very ill on the heavy abx treatment...so I stopped that. I think that many Dr.s are abusing this LLMD term.
I went to Dr.s who has in fact had lyme themselfs and who did not believe in taking tons of abx.
Granted there are some sharks out there who are going to prey on sick people and put money in their pockets. Such is life and it is not right. They will get it in the end.

ina
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 8/26/2009 12:15 PM (GMT -6)   
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/617453/
detoxification_secrets_the_shocking.html?cat=5

Post Edited By Moderator (CajunGrl) : 8/26/2009 11:02:29 PM (GMT-6)

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