Hansa Clinic in Witchita for Lyme

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Martha's Vineyard
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 2/21/2009 3:08 PM (GMT -6)   
I have not been to this place but I keep hearing good things about it.
I think the Dr. there is on the right track in that he goes after fixing the broken down immune system.
As many on here have so many cross infections...along with pesticides and mercury and herpes and or had cancer, and having children. All of these do a number on our immune system. And all of them together along with all the stress and food allergies.
It is no wonder we feel ill.
I am going to take my 5 year old to this place. I am not going to put pot in her chest. I don't have the nerve. I also want to learn about keeping my immube system in top shape for all of the stress that I am facing now...and for all of the mosquitos that will be bitting me all the time.
So you peope that have had great results with this clinic.....please share your success stories with others. It is important that people who are suffering know about all the opitons that are available to them.
I feel bad when I tell people about envita and they cannot afford it.
That sucks! But I hear that this guy is only 6,000 for two weeks.
That is something that people can at least hope for. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


RAW VEGAN
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 2/21/2009 5:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi,

As I mentioned in some of the previous posts, I was very ill before I went to the Hansa Center. Prior to this, for three months I had been it horrific pain, every moment. Nothing helped. I was wasting away since I could not eat and became very dehydrated, mainly because of the Malarial type sweating that was relentless. Three and a half weeks ago I went to the clinic. I had read the Dr.'s book and was very impressed with his methods and intellect about the disease. I believe he had had it in the past, himself. It was because of this blog that I was able to read back through posts and find out about him. Deejavu and Wacko Women had been treated by him and when I spoke with them it was very clear that they had been helped.

I want to make clear that by supporting what he is doing that I am, in no way, discounting any other treatment available for Lyme. What really made me think about his treatment working was the thought that if Lyme is an epidemic, then why isn't everyone sick? You cannot get away from the bugs, can you? So, I have Lyme and I am sick and my husband has the bug and is NOT sick. How come? The same thought keeps coming into my brain and it is all about the immune system. This Dr. works on your body to re balance the immune system so the bugs are not happy there anymore. I liked the idea of this and that he does not want you to herx. He believes that herxing creates ammonia in the organs and can cause long term cellular damage. So, when I read that there would be no more herxing, I was on the next plane to Wichita. I had had enough pain for a lifetime.

The treatment is very gentle and everybody gets treated differently because we are all different. There is no one size fits all. He has a way of testing you to see exactly what microbes are the causing the symptoms. This way he knows what your body needs.

Anyway, I am no longer in pain and almost feel normal again. Each day I am getting better, so progress is happening. He told me to give it about 3 months for a total remission. Yes!


RV

snake1979
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 282
   Posted 2/21/2009 11:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Marie -  I would be careful.  I know several people who have been to this clinic and didnt get any better and come out broke.  There is a new breakthrough with Frylabs.  Email me at snake19791979@yahoo.com.  Hope all is well.

RAW VEGAN
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 2/22/2009 12:44 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Snake,

I have not heard about the people you are referring to but I am here just to state what my experience was and the people that I have come into contact with and spoken to who have either been there or have done the home protocol. I was there for two weeks and spent $6000. in total. Since I am better and I have gotten my life back again it certainly doesn't seem that much to spend. But one does not need to go to the clinic since they can do the home protocol which is a fraction of the price. The book explains how to do it at home for those people who cannot afford to travel there.

You are right, though, we all need to be careful about everything we choose to do to treat ourselves since the track record for a successful treatment is sorely lacking. I would love to see a list of all the people who have been cured or put in remission from other treatments, conventional and alternative. I scoured this blog and others to find them and the only ones that I found were the people who used this protocol. That is why I went in that direction. I know that I must have missed someone's post stating that they were in remission or cured. Do you know who they are? I am very eager to know that they exist. Do they get better and then just don't tell anyone? I simply felt that it was the right thing to do to report the results of my treatment so that others may be helped, rather than move quickly on with my life and away from the world of Lyme.

RV

ttlittlestar
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 296
   Posted 2/22/2009 7:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Right now our monthly visits to the Lyme dr would cost over $600 each month between me and my daughter. I make it affordable by cancelling my appointments. A $6000 treatment is so out of the question. I figure my Lyme is just a forever thing and do what I can to feel as good as possible. Hopefully there will be some kind of breakthrough in my life, but if not, it is what it is.

RAW VEGAN
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 2/22/2009 9:25 AM (GMT -6)   
I believe that the home protocol is about 150. a month.


RV

Martha's Vineyard
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 2/22/2009 11:19 AM (GMT -6)   
Hey snake,
Thanks for the words of caution. But this is called freedom of speech..and you know how I love to speak..:>)
How are you feeling by the way? Hey see if you can go in and say hello to Claude and his wife there....give the guy a pant or a hug...poor things needs it. Let him know who you are...from the forum and a pal of mine....
Ask his wife about her horse..tell her that you are so proud of her...she made an escape the other day...ripped the iv out of her arm and bolted.
But anyways...I know Raw Vegan...personally. I called me on the phone we have a best mutual friend here in florida who has an all organic fruit stand.
Well you can be sure that they have seen alot of me over the last 5 years and have heard it all about Lyme...over and over. They told me about their sick friend...Patti. And I took them the bood cure unknown....not excatly a happy book...gezzzz.
Anyways, Patti, like many could not move to Scottsdale and more over she can not take any ABX. So she needed help and I had no answers for her. But others on this forum reached out to her and helped her, and she took their advice and went to the clinic in Kansas and she feels great.
So I told her that was fantastic and worth sharing. If people have bad stories to share...then they should post theirs too.
Hey...like Dowa does not trust Enivta for one minute and she post it all the time. Which is fine. And she has never even set foot in the place. But she, like others are cautios. And should be.
I intend to check him out for myself. I am reading his book and like it. I like what he has to say....A LOT!
And with my 5 year old. I have already taken her to the top LLMD for kids...Dr. J. in CT, And she can not tolerate the high doses of abx..she misses school...gets doubled over in stomach cramps...doesnot want to eat......throws up when she does...and has terrible diaria.
So I am not going to subject my child to that abx drug abuse.
It did not help her in the least. And to have my 5 year old...getting sicker...forget it. Now many like Dr. J alot. So maybe it worked for them. And that is their opinion. This is mine. And Enivta does not treat kids. So forget that. But Dr. J. in KS does...so that is my next option for my kids. And if he tries to screw me out of alot of money then I will hit in with my purse and tell on him on this forum!..:>)
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


wacko woman
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 182
   Posted 2/22/2009 1:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Marie,


I had to laugh at the ' hit him with your purse' image! You are too funny. (You should probably give him fair warning at the beginning of your treatment just how much your purse weighs). I will be sending you and your daughter lots of healing energy.


Be Well,
Wacko Woman

LupnerRN
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 350
   Posted 2/22/2009 3:22 PM (GMT -6)   
AMEN to all of you guys!!!!!!
 
Good or bad....I want to hear it all!!!!
 
You can't make well informed, knowledgable decisions without hearing as many views as possible.  So THANK YOU for everyone's view!
Please keep it coming.
 
I agree with the comment "caring is sharing" and that's whats lead me back to this forum.
 
RV, thanks for the book info re: dr. J.  I'm going to check it out!
And I agree with you that ALL Lymies have the responsibility to help each other.  We have to stick together and keep supporting each other...right!  No one else can. They just don't get it.  So, when we get better and can think normally again, it's gonna be our new job to help them all "get it"!
 
many blessings to all
11/07 symptoms start
7/4/08  IGenX LD positive,gluten sensitivity,low magn, low WBC's,+yeast/bacteria/tapeworm/roundworm, EBV,HHV,CMV,Parvo,
7/25/08 started on Biaxin
9/08 IGenX co-infections neg, but probable Bart, Bab, Erhl
11/08  Biaxin,Plaquenil,Cipro, Artemisinin,3 probiotics,Transfer Immune, Bcomplex,MultiVit,omega3,magnesium,
1/29/09  Added: Rifampin 600mg- Ehrl, Lomatium 15dropsBID-parvo, andrographis 15dropsBID (super yuck!)-LD, Alinia-cryptosporidium.   


Martha's Vineyard
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 2/22/2009 3:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Ha wacho...oh no warning for him...no way..just walk in with my bi9g bag....Hermes of course...weights a ton....empty. But it will be loaded with bricks...
And when he steps out of line...whammo...he will not see it coming.:>)
I was not pleasant when I arrived at Envita..could have been the jet lag, mirgraine, nausea, vertigo and extreme pain..or maybe just my terrible mood about having to drag my a__ all the way to the darn desert..to see yet another Dr. about my lyme disease. Most of the nurses did not even speak to me after my first week...Do not remember what I said to them....lol
Another one hated me till till weeks just before I left...lol. Witch? Who me? Judgemental? Who me? Very easily aggitated by a nurse who had no0t read enough books on lyme...who me? Well.....
I am only on page 30 of Dr. J's book. ?And I have already found one vit. that Envita has me on too. Hey snake...it is the one that I bought for you as a gift. The trans factor one. Have no real idea of what it is.
But snake...you have to do the whole deal....like gets your lympth nodes cleaned out too. Oh yeah....Dr. J mentions that too as his treatment.
I called that my drano days. Makes sense because they spread things like cancer all over the body.
So that is two things.
I had wanted to have another child for Lilly 5 years ago. But because I was so sick, I could not. And now at 45 and with two sick kids. Well, never mind it now. But the point is that I want to STAY WELL. And since I attract so many bugs and get bitten every day..living in S. Florida and Texas. I want to get my immune system in the best shape that I can. They told me over and over at Envita that my own body would be able to fend for itself...once it was re charged if you will.
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


Martha's Vineyard
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 2/22/2009 4:14 PM (GMT -6)   
I am hearing good and bad about his clinic. Some are thrilled about him and got cured. Others say that is was a
total waste of their time and money.
I am wondering now...did anyone here go to Envita and get no results as well?
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4396
   Posted 2/22/2009 6:23 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Martha's Vinyard,

You might want to look into Neem bug repellant... My Brother is also a mosquito magnet and he likes the neem stuff. Neem is a tree that grows in Hawaii (and probably other similar climates) and apparently mosquitos hate it. Nice thing is, Neem won't poison your body like Deet.

Other anti-mosquito tricks: Eat lots of raw garlic, take Vitamin B1 (makes your body smell funny to the mosquitos), put regular yellow mustard on your hands (works for me), put Citronella oil on yourself (I've never gotten this to work), etc.

Good luck,
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Anemia, Lymphopenia, intermittant Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; G Tube; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Heparin (to flush PICC line), IV Cipro (for G-tube site infection).


RAW VEGAN
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 2/23/2009 9:50 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi, this was not meant to start a war, here. I was simply stating what my experience was with Dr. J. and the success that I achieved. It is really not fair to say that someone has integrity issues without stating just what they are. That, in my opinion, is very damaging. You can say that about anyone and if not challenged then people accept it as fact. This is very sad. I met him and was there for two weeks and my husband and I felt that he was the most ethical and caring doctor we had ever met. People were being helped and we met them and talked to them face to face, looked them in the eye and knew that it was true. My own experience confirms it.

Why is it so hard to let people know that there is another way of healing available to them? There is absolutely nothing in it for me to post here other than to help someone else. Please, Gracie's Mom, tell us what the integrity issues are. I, for one would like to know. Is my recovery all in my head? Will this thread be deleted?

I was on the Zhang protocol and Zhang's clinic and people were very kind and caring but I herxed so badly that I thought that I would die. Herbs are just as powerful as abx. I have Buhner's book and loved it, but when I started to do his protocol, I herxed badly. Living in constant pain is not worth living, for me. So when I read Dr. J's book and about the methods he uses to heal, which don't include herxing, I was very interested. I did it and I am better and getting better, each day. My husband is very skeptical about everything and took me to Dr. J thinking that it may be a waste of time. However, he will be the first one to say now, that thanks to Dr. J, he has his wife back again. He knows that it worked for me.

I think that it is time to let people know all good and all bad about the Doc. Please, tell us what it is that is bad. I already know what is good.

I also think that it is fair to say that people have good and bad experiences with just about any doc who is treating Lyme.


RV

Seibertneurolyme
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 2/23/2009 7:25 PM (GMT -6)   
This is a test post. It has been so long since I have posted on this forum I had to rereigister.

Spent half an hour writing a post last night and then lost it all.

Bea Seibert

Seibertneurolyme
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 2/23/2009 8:08 PM (GMT -6)   
I am posting this under the same screen name I use on LymeNet which is where I usually hang out.

Hubby went to Dr J in Wichita in 2002. He had had no Lyme treatment at that time. We spent two months there. Hubby had been very sick and undiagnosed for 1 1/2 years prior to this.

Don't believe the no herxing. Hubby ended up in the hosptial 3 or 4 times and in the psych ward once. His seizure-like episodes started during this time and still continue. Probably antibiotics would have caused the same response.

The big disadvantage to seeing Dr J is that he is a chiropractor and not an M.D. -- none of the hosptial docs would consult with him. Dr J did suggest hubby go see the Scientologists for "stress reduction" -- took forever to get off their mailing list.

If I was you I would order a bottle of his overpriced Borrelogen and give that a try. If you herx on that then don't expect the ionic footbaths, massages, chiropractic, chi machine etc to totally stop all herxes. Detox is important, but unless you are killing something there won't be many toxins to remove.

The few patients we met who were being treated for Lyme mostly had arthritic presentations. The doc didn't seem to know much about neuro symptoms.

The homeopathic remedies backfired as well -- things like canabis and belladonna.

At the time we knew next to nothing about Lyme disease and didn't even know what a herx was. Went to the doc because hubby had spent several months treating for G.I. parasites and healing his gastritis. Didn't think he could tolerate antibiotics. If I had it to do over again I would go with the Buhner protocol first to get pathogen load down and then go with antibiotics and herbal combos. Of course the Buhner book hadn't been written then.

I did read the small paperback book Dr J wrote first and called him and even got the names of 2 patients to call and talk to. The larger hardback book came later. Hubby did most of the protocols in that book. The one tick-borne patient that the doc always brags about was on 27 meds when she went to him. Getting off that many meds would probably make anyone feel better.

Dr J wanted hubby to stop all his supplements including critical ones like CoQ10. We did do this but regretted it as we have every time we have let a doc talk us into this. The doc claimed hubby was allergic to his supplements. Sorry, but I don't think so.

As for the elevated ammonia theory -- the silphium didn't do anything for hubby. I don't buy this theory because hubby later had hepatic encephalopathy from elevated blood ammonia after treating with IV Rocephin. So I know what the symptoms of elevated ammonia are.

I guess the doc still uses thermography as one diagnostic tool. Hubby has had this done by other docs as well. Provides some useful info, but hubby obviously had no improvements in getting his organ systems etc back into balance while treating with this doc.

Knowing what we do now after dealing with these tick-borne illnesses for 8 years hubby said he would take Dr K in Washington State who also has some out-of-the-box treatments over Dr J anytime. No we haven't been to Dr K -- can't afford to fly to docs anymore.

Martha, good luck with whatever treatment you pursue, but please don't rush into making an expensive treatment decision.

Bea Seibert

Seibertneurolyme
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 2/23/2009 8:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Now I remember why I don't use this forum much. It keeps logging me out and making me reregister.

Very frustrating and I don't even have Lyme.

Bea Seibert

ticker
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 9208
   Posted 2/23/2009 8:54 PM (GMT -6)   

Bea, it is good to see you posting.

You should not have to re-register every time, and it should not be logging you out.  I suggest emailing the forum administrator or moderator to see if they can help.

I am sorry your husband is not feeling well.  Is he gettting treated at all?  Remind me where you are located.  If you would like to email me, my email address is ko_@bellsouth.net  


RAW VEGAN
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 2/23/2009 9:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Sorry Bea about your husband and your experience with Dr. J. My experience was quite the opposite. I hope that you find someone to help him. Has any doctor been able to give him some relief?

RV

bearsfan
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 121
   Posted 2/24/2009 7:51 AM (GMT -6)   

Martha's Vineyard - I've been contemplating going to Hansa also. I'm still up in the air. Also, I too live in SW FL, Sarasota to be exact, where are you?

Lisa


Martha's Vineyard
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 2/24/2009 2:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Sorry for my late delay..lol. I have been cleaning out my garage, yeah I am bragging..lol
I am not off to Hansa with anyone just yet. I am feeling great myself. So shocked. Really, keep waiting for the brick to drop...:>)
Envita put Lilly on a bunch of vit. in a poder form. She was really ill on the abx, and could very well be alergic to them. And both kids were
stressed out over momma being nuts and away. So, seems have settled down here at home. Lilly has not missed school and her cough that
came on the other day did not give her the usaul....breathing issues. And did not result in a fever or Dr.s visist. She is seeming to be doing
better. She is a very happy child and still sleeps with me. My big baby. We also do not have my infected dog sleeping with us anymore.
Have had many comversations on this forum with others about our poor infected "other children".
Charlotte my 12 year old is still at her dads and she use to have an amaxing immune system. She has been very stressed out about me.
I am hoping that she will now calm down some after seeing me. Hopefully soon. She has been to upset and emotional to see me. So....
I would like to get her on supplements and herbs to help her some. That is why I am so intersted in other proticals. Since her father will not allow
me to take her to enivta.
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


Martha's Vineyard
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 2/24/2009 3:07 PM (GMT -6)   
hey siebert..or Beau,
Welcome to the HW forum. This is a great place really. Just give it some time and reach out to others by just tapping on them directly.
And you will see how truely wonderful most of these people really are.
Everyone has a rigth to their views. And that is why I posted this. If someone does not like a Dr. good...if someone does.....yippie.
It really does not matter. And really I am always getting in trouble more than anyone for stirring things up...lol. It is just my nature to open
every door and look inside.
No two people are the same. And I have been dealing with a family of lymies. And it is hell at times. The vineyard is covered in ticks and
many young people very ill and disabled with lyme. Or like my yard men..dying in two weeks falt of tularemia.
That is the main reason that I dumped my home up there.
Your long post last night was not deleted. You pushed the wrong button darlin. If anyone gets deleted..it is my.:>)
And at that time, you get a friendly e-mail from Alfers, the owner, and she every so nicely tells you to behave. lol
So I have gotten my share of timeouts. Just love that corner..:>)
Sorry about your long struggle with your husband. Most on here have had at least 30 Dr.s and have spent all of their money. Others on
here have no family at all to help them and are sitting at home alone not knowing what to do, and not having a job or any money.
So..it is better to reach out to others who are worse off than you. And believe me. They are on here. Sometimes too sick to write, and too
depressed. So I harass them at home...lol..just kidding...ha. So what is the currant statis of your husband?
How old is he? What is he on now? Can he walk? I hear you about the mental institution. I was invited to one myself in Sept. My DR. could not
trust me to be alone..for good reasons. But I talked my way out of it, I lied to him..and them got my butt on the next plane to AZ.
Your views on DR. J are shared by others as well. We are all trying to help others. Or should be.
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


Martha's Vineyard
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 2/24/2009 3:19 PM (GMT -6)   
Bear,
Speak to runningirl or raw vegan about him. I have never met him. I was a Envita patient. It took them three months to fix me there. I was losing my mind and was having daily panic attacks. I was sweating through my clothes all day. Walking migraine, nasusea, travleling major pain.
I was a real pain myself. I feel great now. I am lucky.

Gracies mom.
Thank you for the alternative protocols. I am going to run over to Whole Foods and see what I can find. I had to cut back on the vitamins from
Envita. Seems that my stomach was acting up. Did you get my list of what they have me on back in Dec. Curious what you think of them.
I made a list of the stuff you told me. Thank you!

Oh Bear..there is a DR. up there near you....ummmm....I think her name is sick in florida. Or....gosh..she use to post
alot before she and her daughters all got better. sickinfl?
Or maybe I am getting sickinct. confused with her.
Or ask the ticker who else is up there. The good thing is that from this forum you will be able to see what options are
available to you. And get many sides of the story.
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4282
   Posted 2/26/2009 3:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Seibertneurolyme said...
I am posting this under the same screen name I use on LymeNet which is where I usually hang out.

Hubby went to Dr J in Wichita in 2002. He had had no Lyme treatment at that time. We spent two months there. Hubby had been very sick and undiagnosed for 1 1/2 years prior to this.

Don't believe the no herxing. Hubby ended up in the hosptial 3 or 4 times and in the psych ward once. His seizure-like episodes started during this time and still continue. Probably antibiotics would have caused the same response.

The big disadvantage to seeing Dr J is that he is a chiropractor and not an M.D. -- none of the hosptial docs would consult with him. Dr J did suggest hubby go see the Scientologists for "stress reduction" -- took forever to get off their mailing list.

If I was you I would order a bottle of his overpriced Borrelogen and give that a try. If you herx on that then don't expect the ionic footbaths, massages, chiropractic, chi machine etc to totally stop all herxes. Detox is important, but unless you are killing something there won't be many toxins to remove.

The few patients we met who were being treated for Lyme mostly had arthritic presentations. The doc didn't seem to know much about neuro symptoms.

The homeopathic remedies backfired as well -- things like canabis and belladonna.

At the time we knew next to nothing about Lyme disease and didn't even know what a herx was. Went to the doc because hubby had spent several months treating for G.I. parasites and healing his gastritis. Didn't think he could tolerate antibiotics. If I had it to do over again I would go with the Buhner protocol first to get pathogen load down and then go with antibiotics and herbal combos. Of course the Buhner book hadn't been written then.

I did read the small paperback book Dr J wrote first and called him and even got the names of 2 patients to call and talk to. The larger hardback book came later. Hubby did most of the protocols in that book. The one tick-borne patient that the doc always brags about was on 27 meds when she went to him. Getting off that many meds would probably make anyone feel better.

Dr J wanted hubby to stop all his supplements including critical ones like CoQ10. We did do this but regretted it as we have every time we have let a doc talk us into this. The doc claimed hubby was allergic to his supplements. Sorry, but I don't think so.

As for the elevated ammonia theory -- the silphium didn't do anything for hubby. I don't buy this theory because hubby later had hepatic encephalopathy from elevated blood ammonia after treating with IV Rocephin. So I know what the symptoms of elevated ammonia are.

I guess the doc still uses thermography as one diagnostic tool. Hubby has had this done by other docs as well. Provides some useful info, but hubby obviously had no improvements in getting his organ systems etc back into balance while treating with this doc.

Knowing what we do now after dealing with these tick-borne illnesses for 8 years hubby said he would take Dr K in Washington State who also has some out-of-the-box treatments over Dr J anytime. No we haven't been to Dr K -- can't afford to fly to docs anymore.

Martha, good luck with whatever treatment you pursue, but please don't rush into making an expensive treatment decision.

Bea Seibert
 
Hi Bea,
 
First of all, I am truly sorry about your husband and all of his problems.  Yet something doesn't sound right as Dr. J. would never recommend anyone to see Scientologists for "stress reduction", that's just not how Dr. J. thinks.  He uses many different treatment plans to reduce stress.  I am not saying you made this up, but after knowing so much about Dr. J., something  just doesn't sit right with me.  
 
Since I am posting, did you know it takes more college years to become a Chiro compared to an M.D.?  Most people are not aware of this.   I will post some links below.  Not only that, but Dr. J. studied natural and anthroposophical medicine in Germany and Biological Medicine with the world-renowned Paracelsus Klinic of Switzerland, plus more.  I would say his knowledge of lyme and chronic illnesses is remarkable!
 
Anyway, as far as degree's go, below are some interesting links, please correct me if I am misinformed:
 
 
 
 

Degree Requirements

These basic educational requirements for graduates of both chiropractic and medical schools show that although each has its own specialties, the hours of classroom instruction are about the same. (The class hours for basic science comparisons were compiled and averaged following a review of curricula of 18 chiropractic colleges and 22 medical schools.)

Minimum Required Hours

Chiropractic College   Medical School
456 Anatomy/Embryology. 215
243 Physiology 174
296 Pathology 507
161 Chemistry/Biochemistry 100
145 Microbiology 145
408 Diagnosis 113
149 Neurology 171
56 Psychology/Psychiatry 323
66 Obstetrics & Gynecology 284
271 X-ray 13
168 Orthopedics 2
2,419 Total Hours for Degree 2,047

College Faculty

The U.S. Department of Education, through the separate accrediting agencies for chiropractic and medical schools, dictates the credentials of faculty members. In both chiropractic and medical schools, the classes for the first two academic years are usually basic sciences. 

Faculty members in the basic sciences divisions are either Ph.D.s in each subject taught (such as microbiology or biochemistry), or D.C.s, M.D.s, or D.O.s who also have bachelors, masters, or Ph.D. degrees in the basic science subjects being taught. Classes in the clinical sciences division are usually taught by D.C.s, M.D.s, or D.O.s. 

In many chiropractic colleges, M.D.s or D.O.s are permitted to teach certain courses, such as laboratory diagnosis. However, D.C.s must teach courses in which M.D.s or D.O.s don't have sufficient education or practical clinical experience.

Some chiropractic colleges have active research departments in which researchers conduct both basic science and clinical studies. The subjects of study range from biomechanics to biochemistry. 

Traditionally, chiropractic colleges had only minuscule research funding compared to  medical schools. I recall political medicine using this fact as evidence that chiropractic wasn't legitimate. 

However, the medical critics failed confess that the minimal funding or lack of it was a result of political medicine doing everything in its power to block funding of studies in chiropractic college. 

Obviously, political medicine used a circular and disingenuous argument to deceive the public. Today, chiropractic colleges are receiving more funding for research.

Some medical schools have D.C.s as full-time faculty members. The University of Colorado School of Medicine, for example, has a full-time chiropractic radiologist as a faculty member.

 Dr. James P. Barassi, a chiropractor, is Research Fellow in Medicine at Harvard Medical School. D.C.s occasionally teach part-time or special classes through medical schools. 

It's not unusual for D.C.s and M.D.s to co-teach both medical and chiropractic audiences. Most often, chiropractic physicians and medical neurologists or neurosurgeons co-teach.

Licensing and Postgraduate Education

The chiropractic physician must pass four levels of national board exams and a physical therapy exam to be eligible to sit for state board examinations. State board exams involve both written examination and oral practical exams involving clinical practice and x-ray interpretation.

After graduation, the DC may undergo postgraduate training to become board certified as a chiropractic radiologist, neurologist, orthopedist, internist, family practitioner, sports physician, rehabilitation specialists, clinical nutritionist, or pain management specialist. Medical physicians also may become board certified. 

Options such as surgery are open to medical and osteopathic physicians. Board certification is not necessary for either type of physician to become licensed and to practice. Chiropractic physicians are required to obtain continuing education units each year for license renewal.

<!-- /Training Content -->
 
 
 
Denise


It's all about the Immune System mixed with a large dose of Positive Thinking and Daily Detoxing
 
This song is about my years with chronic lyme since 1995 and being in remission for over 3 years:
 
 


Seibertneurolyme
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 2/26/2009 5:49 PM (GMT -6)   
Deejavu,
 
When hubby was admitted to the psych ward Dr J suggested I consult the Scientologists -- he said they might be able to help get him discharged quicker as there was nothing he could do to help with that. Supposedly a prior patient had had success with this I think.
 
Any of the other details I posted can be verified by prior posts on LymeNet. I posted a very long summary of hubby's illness when I joined LymeNet. Will post that link when I find it.
 
 
Was trying to remember what I left out of the post here when my first post didn't go through. This is actually what I felt was one of the most worrisome things that happened with Dr J. He used his form of energy medicine -- forget what he called his gadget-- and decided hubby should take 11 Wobenzyme 3 times per day. Hubby had never taken this supplement and had had no testing for hypercoagulation at that point.
 
After the first day he ended up in the hospital with encephalopathy and was unconscious for 15 hours one day. I have since learned to never ever start a supplement or med for hubby at suggested or therapeutic dose whether or not a doc suggests it or not.
 
If I need nutritional advice then I would most likely go to a chiropractor rather than an M.D. I don't really have a bias against chiropractors. With any doc it is a matter of training and experience. In my opinion Dr J doesn't have nearly as much experience dealing with Lyme patients as LLMD's who see those patients exclusively.
 
Hubby currently sees an herbalist who helps with tickborne treatment and also detox, so we don't exclusively see M.D.'s.
 
Bea Seibert
 

Post Edited (Seibertneurolyme) : 2/26/2009 5:18:08 PM (GMT-7)


Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4282
   Posted 2/26/2009 7:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Bea,
 
Once again, when you mentioned that Dr. J. suggested that you consult Scientologists, is it possible your husband is a member of this group?  I mean, it's no secret that Dr. J. does not believe in Scientologists, he wouldn't go near those people with a 10 foot pole as he is an extremely religious man (one of the reasons why I was first skeptical about reading his first book as I am not religious at all). 
 
Also, I read on LymeNet that your husband has been on large doses of Ativan, that's a very scary medication!  My great aunt hallucinated like crazy on that medication and had to be taken to the ER.  Sure enough, when she was taken off Ativan, she was fine.  No more hallucinations, no more psycho stuff, I mean she was scary when taking that medication!  She was talking to the TV, doing strange things, etc.  I know everyone reacts differently to medications but when I read Ativan, I just remembered my Great Aunt.
 
As far as Wobenzym N, that is such a safe supplement by itself.  It contains Pancreatin 100mg, Papain 60mg, Rutoside 50mg, Bromelain 45mg, Trypsin 24mg, Chymotrypsin 1mg, did  you ever research these ingredients?  They are very safe.
 
I am extremely sensitive to supplements and I took Wobenzym N with no effects at all.  Yet when people mix Wobenzym N with prescription medication, side effects can occur.
 
I went about my treatment plan much differently compared to others.  I took one product at a time to see what was working and what was not.  This way when I added a new botanical or supplement, I knew if I was going to have a reaction.   I said to myself "how else am I going to know what was working if I took a whole bunch of supplements at the same time?"  That didn't make any sense to me.
 
Anyway, how is your husband now?  Is he feeling any better? 
 
Denise
It's all about the Immune System mixed with a large dose of Positive Thinking and Daily Detoxing
 
This song is about my years with chronic lyme since 1995 and being in remission for over 3 years:
 
 

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