improvement without antibiotics?

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gracietiger
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 129
   Posted 2/25/2009 9:14 PM (GMT -6)   
hi all -
i have not been diagnosed or treated for lyme's, though i have almost all the symptoms and an igenex test that might possibly be considered positive from a llmd's point of view (positive band on 41, indeterminate on 31). i have not seen a llmd and i am on the fence about it. the reason is that i feel like i am improving. i have been sick for two years now, and for about a year and a half of that, i was really really sick. for the past three months now, i have been much more functional. i still have issues and bad days, but some of the "worst" symptoms are improved. i no longer have joint swelling or pain, my heart palpitations are majorly calmed, i haven't had a panic attack in awhile, and there are others that are improved. i am taking beta blockers, which i believe have helped a great deal, and i can't really say how i'd feel without them, but overall, my complaints are far less than a year ago.

so i am wondering if this is contrary to a lyme picture. would one expect gradual improvement with no treatment at all? is lyme worse in its beginning stages, then kind of tapers off? or would i expect to just get worse and worse and worse?

ktp812
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 715
   Posted 2/26/2009 6:57 AM (GMT -6)   

Many of my symptoms disappeared before I began abx. For the first year I was sick I had terrible hand/finger stiffness. If I would just sit and not use my hands they would immediately stiffen up. Then one day it just disappeared and that was one of my first symptoms. I had many come and go in the two years before I was diagnosed.

Sometimes I think the abx have made me worse off because I don't feel much better on them. My test was similar to yours in that I had a 31 IND a 39IND and a 41+++ . Make sure you are tested for co-infections because I also have bart and babs. Those are causing most of my problems now.


dorit
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 375
   Posted 2/26/2009 7:11 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi gracietiger -

If you have no real serious focus of infection which definitely needs treatment immediatelly and you feel generally better right now why not give it a try without abx; maybe you can go for a herbal route/ supplements etc.

As KeepHope said - it may be the case that it does not work without abx. The future will show you anyway. Maybe you are at a point where you should go for your instinct.

I too whish you all the best!!! dorit

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4296
   Posted 2/26/2009 8:20 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi gracietiger,
 
I believe one can feel improvement without antibiotics or even botanicals.  The reason I believe this is that we all have bad bacteria's in our bodies no matter if they are lyme bacteria's or other types..   My view is if one's immune system is really strong and one is detoxing every single day, then one's body will keep those "bad" bacteria's at bay and even kill them without the help of anything.  
 
It makes me wonder if society is so conditioned to believe that if one is ill, they must take antibiotics.  I was brought up that way and as a young girl (I am 52 now), I was constantly given pencillin for swollen glands as I suffered from them constantly.  Sure enough, by the time I was in my 20's, I became allergic to pencillin.  
 
All I can say is follow your gut instincts and only your gut instincts.  If you feel good and continue to feel good, enjoy it! 
 
Denise
It's all about the Immune System mixed with a large dose of Positive Thinking and Daily Detoxing
 
This song is about my years with chronic lyme since 1995 and being in remission for over 3 years:
 
 


ticker
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 9208
   Posted 2/26/2009 8:28 PM (GMT -6)   

Hi gracetiger.  When did you have the Western Blot done?  Were you also tested for the co-infections?

Lyme symptoms typically wax and wane.  Since you have been sick for so long and since you still have many symptoms, I would recommend seeing a Lyme knowlegeable doctor for an evaluation.  A knowledgeable doctor will take your entire history and be able to advise you.

 

gracietiger
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 129
   Posted 2/26/2009 8:46 PM (GMT -6)   
thank you guys.
i guess it's actually hard for me to tell if i am "feeling better" or if some of my worst symptoms are getting better, while others are worsening. my heart racing and panic attacks are way better. those are the two symptoms i would have complained of the most, as i felt they were the most damaging to my life. i am on beta blockers, which may be the reason that those symptoms are so much better. i do not know how i would feel off of beta blockers. however, other symptoms, like the brain fog, is SO much worse. i am constantly in another world and detached, and it's been about two months now that the brain fog has been like this. i hardly ever had it before. so i suppose that i am so excited that some of the worst symptoms are better, but then others are still problems.

i appreciate all of your advice. i will really have to think about whether this is worth just waiting and seeing, or going to see a llmd. my test is SO inconclusive (i just got the results back about three weeks ago), that it makes me even more confused as to what to do. especially because i do feel like i am better now than i was a year ago, but my lifestyle has also changed dramatically. i used to be a zookeeper, working outside, and i was not on medication. so i suppose it is really hard to compare.

i am so thankful to not have to experience the three time a day panic attacks, but now i'm greeting the worst cognitive troubles i could have imagined. perhaps i celebrated a potential improvement too early?!

ticker
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 9208
   Posted 2/26/2009 8:53 PM (GMT -6)   

Hi gracetiger.  Did the doctor know why you are having heart symptoms?

Have you been tested for the co-infections?

Lyme symptoms do migrate and change over time.  In my opinion, when Lyme disease is possible the sooner you get treated the better.


gracietiger
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 129
   Posted 2/27/2009 12:31 AM (GMT -6)   
hi ticker -
no, the doctors had no idea why i "suddenly" developed heart arrythmias!!! i went from a collegiate division I athlete to crippled by heart racing and pounding. i was initially told i had autonomic nervous system dysfunction and i was diagnosed with pots. i then went and saw a pots specialist, and learned i didn't have pots. so, as of now, i still have an array of symptoms and no diagnosis.
i have been tested for no co-infections. i can't afford it!!! i am a student so the money is tight, which is why i am soooo leery of seeing a llmd. i seem, these days, to much more identify with chronic fatigue syndrome.
but all the doctors keep telling me this was all started by some kind of virus or infection, which doesn't make sense to me because i wasn't sick prior to having all these problems. but i have experienced really swollen lymph glands, and for several months, very swollen and curled in finger joints. the finger swelling went away, the swollen lymph glands come and go, but no one can offer an explanation.

ticker
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 9208
   Posted 2/27/2009 7:57 AM (GMT -6)   

Hi gracietiger.  I am sorry you have been through so much.  Both Lyme and the co-infection Babesiosis can cause heart symptoms.  The co-infection Bartonella can cause swollen glands.

Can your parents help you out with getting testing done?  


nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 2/27/2009 5:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi gracietiger. I hope you can see an LLMD. I was sort of well and then sick again more times than I can remember. It sounds like you have a co infection as well as lyme. If you can address exactly what is making you sick and treat it aggresively you will get better much quicker. I know how you feel about expense but in the long run it is a lot cheaper than not being able to finish school, get a job or keep a job. And you can spend a fortune on all the hype promising a cure for lyme. I was worried about traveling 500 miles to see an LLMD and the office visit which I knew would be expensive - but the year prior to my visit I spent a ton of money on alternative treatments that failed to work. Most LLMD's have had lyme disease themselves so they have an invested interest in finding out what works. Some of them are very knowledgeable about alternative treatments that do work and when and how to use them. The LLMD diagnosed me with bartonella as well as lyme. My bart test was negative but he told me there are 30 strains and the labs only test for 2 - so you need to use symptoms as the criteria for diagnosis. The state epidemiologist told me the lyme strain in our state will not test. Luckily I had the EM rash or I would still be undiagnosed. I feel so lucky to know what is wrong and to have found someone that can help me. Good luck to you!
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