Samento and Camunda Questions?

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minerals
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Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 943
   Posted 3/17/2009 9:29 AM (GMT -6)   
In addition to Rifampin and minocycline I started taking Samento and camunda along with parsley consentrates yesterday. I did it all as directed.I was feeling so much better before I began these drops. I had the worst painful night last night than I have had since I began antibiotic treatment 2 years ago. It is hard to believe that a few drops of these consentrations could make me feel so bad.

I have pains I haven't felt in a long time, my lips are burning, my fingers are painfull, feet worse and back sore. I think these are my weak parts that have been most affected by lyme etc. I assume it is a herx. Anyone experience this? Thanks for any replys
DX. LYME  7 /03 -I believe I 've had it since 1985- 
oral doxi, amoxi 6 months. Have been bitten 2x since                  
Developed many chemical & food sensitivities& Allergies to many Suppliments
Swollen Burning tongue/lips
Hashimotos Thyroiditis
DX. Babsiosis 4/07 -Malerone 2 wks, Mepron & Azithromax 6 mos. 
Armour Thyroid
Probiotics are a MUST   
Almost died from 3 doses of Plaquanil 12/07
IV Rocephin began 12/4/07
Bactrim began 1/22/07
Stopped Rocephin 3/04/08
DX Micoplasma
Mepron, Azithrommax, Rafampin 5/29/08
Stopped Rifampin began Bactrim and zithro 6/2/08
stopped Mepron 7 22/08
switched from bactrim to levaquin and had bad reaction to levaquin
began Mepron again till Nov, then began Malerone
began Rifampin and Minocycline
Outstare The Darkness--The Light Will Come!


nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 3/18/2009 9:06 AM (GMT -6)   
I also just started samento but have not noticed significant changes although this morning I felt stiffness in my ankles.
I have been having more body pain anyway before I started samento. How many drops are you taking?

minerals
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 943
   Posted 3/18/2009 9:18 AM (GMT -6)   
I am taking 10 drops of simento 2 x day and woking to 20 2 x day
DX. LYME  7 /03 -I believe I 've had it since 1985- 
oral doxi, amoxi 6 months. Have been bitten 2x since                  
Developed many chemical & food sensitivities& Allergies to many Suppliments
Swollen Burning tongue/lips
Hashimotos Thyroiditis
DX. Babsiosis 4/07 -Malerone 2 wks, Mepron & Azithromax 6 mos. 
Armour Thyroid
Probiotics are a MUST   
Almost died from 3 doses of Plaquanil 12/07
IV Rocephin began 12/4/07
Bactrim began 1/22/07
Stopped Rocephin 3/04/08
DX Micoplasma
Mepron, Azithrommax, Rafampin 5/29/08
Stopped Rifampin began Bactrim and zithro 6/2/08
stopped Mepron 7 22/08
switched from bactrim to levaquin and had bad reaction to levaquin
began Mepron again till Nov, then began Malerone
began Rifampin and Minocycline 9/08
modified cowden protocol 3/09
Outstare The Darkness--The Light Will Come!


ticker
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 9208
   Posted 3/18/2009 6:34 PM (GMT -6)   

Hi minerals.  You may be starting with too high of a dose.  When I took it, I started at a much lower dose. Are you taking the herbs together or separately?  I suggest contacting your doctor to let him know.


minerals
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 943
   Posted 3/18/2009 6:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the responses. Today I am better and I had a better night last night.
The dose is 10 drops parsley 1 drop camunda work up to 30
10 drops parsley 10 samento work up to 20
DX. LYME  7 /03 -I believe I 've had it since 1985- 
oral doxi, amoxi 6 months. Have been bitten 2x since                  
Developed many chemical & food sensitivities& Allergies to many Suppliments
Swollen Burning tongue/lips
Hashimotos Thyroiditis
DX. Babsiosis 4/07 -Malerone 2 wks, Mepron & Azithromax 6 mos. 
Armour Thyroid
Probiotics are a MUST   
Almost died from 3 doses of Plaquanil 12/07
IV Rocephin began 12/4/07
Bactrim began 1/22/07
Stopped Rocephin 3/04/08
DX Micoplasma
Mepron, Azithrommax, Rafampin 5/29/08
Stopped Rifampin began Bactrim and zithro 6/2/08
stopped Mepron 7 22/08
switched from bactrim to levaquin and had bad reaction to levaquin
began Mepron again till Nov, then began Malerone
began Rifampin and Minocycline 9/08
modified cowden protocol 3/09
Outstare The Darkness--The Light Will Come!


ticker
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 9208
   Posted 3/18/2009 8:10 PM (GMT -6)   
minerals, are you taking them at the same time or separately?
 

nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 3/19/2009 9:09 AM (GMT -6)   
I just wonder which herb is for bartonella? I also have Cumanda but haven't started it yet.

phsinvent
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 1155
   Posted 3/19/2009 1:15 PM (GMT -6)   
I think cumanda will work better for bartonella and other organisms. However, i never tried cumanda. Samento is suggested for lyme but may affect other things. I have tried many different meds and samento gave me the greatest herx of them all. It produced the strongest herx, even greater than biaxin. I remember the pains in my neck, shoulders and back of head. They lasted about 2 weeks. I started with 30 drops per day just to see what samento was all about. It gave me the results i was looking for.

phsinvent
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 1155
   Posted 3/19/2009 1:17 PM (GMT -6)   
I also had strong tingling on the right side of my face when i started samento back in the day. I even had minor tingling on the left side of my face which i never had before. After the 2 week herx passed. I noticed a better mood and increased energy.

pcpc
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 214
   Posted 3/19/2009 2:08 PM (GMT -6)   
If you use Samento and Coumanda- take them 20 minutes apart as they are not compatible. You may want to use one first to see your response and then add the other-- they alll produce strong Herx and generally I tell patients to start with 2 twice daily and increase every couple of days to a total of 15 drops twice daily. Good Luck. FYI Samento hits Mycoplasma and Lyme......forget Coumanda details..Enula hits Babesia.

phsinvent
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 1155
   Posted 3/19/2009 2:52 PM (GMT -6)   
I thought the old school protocol was to do samento one week, then alternate with cumanda the next week. Changing the routine each week?

pcpc
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 214
   Posted 3/19/2009 3:38 PM (GMT -6)   
I think there are many protocols so please go by whichever you doc is suggesting- but if using them together (which is not the norm) you do need to take them apart by at least 20 mins

nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 3/19/2009 4:12 PM (GMT -6)   
If it is effective enough to cause the most powerful herx you have ever had, why take ABX? I am in pain from taking 5 weeks of Levaquin and scared to death wondering if I have permanently damaged myself. How in the world do people take these meds for YEARS!

nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 3/19/2009 4:12 PM (GMT -6)   
If it is effective enough to cause the most powerful herx you have ever had, why take ABX? I am in pain from taking 5 weeks of Levaquin and scared to death wondering if I have permanently damaged myself. How in the world do people take these meds for YEARS!

minerals
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 943
   Posted 3/19/2009 6:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks so much for your replys. I am taking them as follows according to Dr H:

10 drops Parsley with camunda in morning and dinner. Camunda begin 1 drop increase with each dose until 30 drops can be reached.

10 drops parsley with 10 drops samento lunch and bedtime. Samento begin with 10 drops increase until can reach 20.

I am now able to tolerate these without that first horrible herx so far this is my 5th day.

These consentrates came with a sheet that says what is compatable with what and what not to take together. They should be spread out hours apart according to the sheet.
DX. LYME  7 /03 -I believe I 've had it since 1985- 
oral doxi, amoxi 6 months. Have been bitten 2x since                  
Developed many chemical & food sensitivities& Allergies to many Suppliments
Swollen Burning tongue/lips
Hashimotos Thyroiditis
DX. Babsiosis 4/07 -Malerone 2 wks, Mepron & Azithromax 6 mos. 
Armour Thyroid
Probiotics are a MUST   
Almost died from 3 doses of Plaquanil 12/07
IV Rocephin began 12/4/07
Bactrim began 1/22/07
Stopped Rocephin 3/04/08
DX Micoplasma
Mepron, Azithrommax, Rafampin 5/29/08
Stopped Rifampin began Bactrim and zithro 6/2/08
stopped Mepron 7 22/08
switched from bactrim to levaquin and had bad reaction to levaquin
began Mepron again till Nov, then began Malerone
began Rifampin and Minocycline 9/08
modified cowden protocol 3/09
Outstare The Darkness--The Light Will Come!


nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 3/20/2009 7:30 AM (GMT -6)   
I took 20 drops of samento this morning and 2 HH capsules. My arm is aching and my lower legs also. My arm felt ok this morning when I got up except it was stiff when I moved it. Now there is constant pain. Perhaps this is a herx reaction already. I don't know how it could work that quickly. The instructions I found online said to use cumanda first working up to 30 drops before adding samento at day 18. I don't know why I am not following the instructions.

Sulma
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 3/20/2009 10:26 AM (GMT -6)   
Can anyone confirm please they're referring to the Nutramedix product when they say they've used Samento to therapeutic effect?

pcpc
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 214
   Posted 3/20/2009 11:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Yes, Samento is Nutramedix Una de Gato, the Peruvian extract of Cat's Claw.

nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 3/20/2009 2:02 PM (GMT -6)   
I have been a little sick all day and I think it was due to the Samento. I have/had headache, abdominal cramps, loose bowels and the body pains -very tired too. Obviously it is much more powerful than I expected.

pcpc
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 214
   Posted 3/20/2009 2:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Most all herbs that kill any form of bugs or cysts are very strong......always start with a tiny dose that's what's nice about the nutramedix products because they are liquid you can titrate the dose- usallly 1 or 2 drops once or twice daily (empty stomach) and I usually increase by 2 drops every 2-3 doses. Now you think I would take my own advice....as I started the Zhang Artemesinin I went full strength and then had an orthomolecular guy check dosage for me and he said I should double it which I did in one day and spent the night with terrible nausea and now today am in a daze! Medicinal herbs are strong- stronger than antibioitcs in my mind!

nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 3/21/2009 1:56 PM (GMT -6)   
I cut my dose down to 15 drops and feel ok today. I get much more of a "kick" out of this than I did with any of Zhang's herbs which I took exactly as directed for months. At this point I would take all of them if it actually killed the infection. I had an uncle that was torpedoed in WWII and believing he was going to die prayed to every god he could think of - just to be sure he addressed the right One. That is how I feel about the herbs (or the ABX if I could tolerate them) - take them all, every single one. But I am a little obsessed right now.

naturebabe
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 37
   Posted 3/21/2009 2:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Is it OK to take the abx with the samento/cat's claw? My dad just got bit a couple of days ago and I told him to take samento along with his antibiotics, but now he's afraid he is making a mistake. Can he take it a few hours apart from the abx, or maybe not take samento at all because it might "cancel out" or counteract the antibiotics? Thanks for your input!
Age 32
Bitten age 11 yrs old, WB positive age 16. Treated IV Rocephin 4 months PICCline. Herx/anaphylactic shock-almost died.

Relapse in 2005, age 29. New and old lyme, WB positive.
Babesia, Bartonella and Mycoplasma positive via VEGA machine and EAV machine testing. Awaiting blood test results. Pretty sure I have them all.

MRI w/contrast 6/08. 2.8mm pituitary tumor. MRI w/ contrast hurt.
MRI w/ contrast 12/08. Pituitary tumor grew to 3.0. MRI w/ contrast was EXCRUCIATING. NEVER another MRI w/ contrast again in my life!

Extreme, OFF THE CHARTS migraine and neck/skullbase pain.
Severe reaction/heart attack to FROVA (frovatriptan) migraine medication on 1st dose. Heart never the same.
Tachycardia up to 165 bpm.

Doxy and malarone 6 weeks November 2008-then broke out in full body red itchy hives, discontinued med by doc order.

Started Biaxin/Plaquenil Feb 2009 for 1 week-went to hospital with EXCRUCIATING migraine I've had for months-hospitalized almost 2 weeks, with not much relief. Head is still splitting open/neck skullbase pain. Med's were discontinued.

Started New LLMD, Dr. C.
Zithromycin started 3/10/09. Throat constriction today, 3/18/09. Ordered to stop Zithro. I DON'T WANT TO STOP ZITHRO! This is the only med so far I've responded to!!


minerals
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 943
   Posted 3/22/2009 6:30 PM (GMT -6)   
I was told to take Samento with antibiotics HOWEVER I wait an hour. It has not caused any problems so far. I am on my 9th day.
DX. LYME  7 /03 -I believe I 've had it since 1985- 
oral doxi, amoxi 6 months. Have been bitten 2x since                  
Developed many chemical & food sensitivities& Allergies to many Suppliments
Swollen Burning tongue/lips
Hashimotos Thyroiditis
DX. Babsiosis 4/07 -Malerone 2 wks, Mepron & Azithromax 6 mos. 
Armour Thyroid
Probiotics are a MUST   
Almost died from 3 doses of Plaquanil 12/07
IV Rocephin began 12/4/07
Bactrim began 1/22/07
Stopped Rocephin 3/04/08
DX Micoplasma
Mepron, Azithrommax, Rafampin 5/29/08
Stopped Rifampin began Bactrim and zithro 6/2/08
stopped Mepron 7 22/08
switched from bactrim to levaquin and had bad reaction to levaquin
began Mepron again till Nov, then began Malerone
began Rifampin and Minocycline 9/08
modified cowden protocol 3/09
Outstare The Darkness--The Light Will Come!


pcpc
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 214
   Posted 3/23/2009 8:54 AM (GMT -6)   
My understanding is that the Nutramedix herbs (Cowden) are best taken mixed in water on an empty stomach. Most antibiotics require food. I have for years taken Samento etc when I wake up and when I go to sleep with antibiotics at meals- sometimes 30 mins later with good effect. The Zhang herbs are recommended to take 20 mins before meals (and most Chinese herbs are taken with warm water to help them dissolve). There have been studies with Chinese concoctions that showed taking them with meals was as effective as on an empty stomach. You could drive yourself quite crazy with so many restrictions!

Similar results for some hormones - there is debate about taking DHEA and pregnenolone with or without food. I don't think that matters much- I do both for myself and patients and levels are good no matter.

At the end of the day ....do the best you can and try to remember to take all these things! And as you take them tell yourself you are getting better every day, even if you feel like crap. Attitude is as important as any herb..........
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