Cowden Condensed Protocol

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kingrew
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Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 5/2/2009 10:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Has anybody completed at least six months of the new Cowden condensed protocol? I'm taking it now and would love to hear from others who are/were on it.

nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 5/3/2009 1:40 PM (GMT -6)   
What is it???

kingrew
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 5/15/2009 10:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Its the protocol by Dr Lee Cowden - you can look it up on Nutramedix website. He claims to be getting 70% to 90% success rates. It involves rotating herbals samento, cumanda, quina, mora and banderol, and taking serrapeptase to break down cyst form, and taking detox herbs parsley and burbur to handle herx reactions. Also have to take magnesium malate to move bowels and toxins out twice day, and zeolite to remove heavy metals. You have to drink at least 12 cups of water a day.

nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 5/16/2009 7:56 AM (GMT -6)   
Are the herbal solutions more potent than the original ones - do you get more in each drop? Or is it the same stuff with a different approach to taking it?

kingrew
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 5/20/2009 9:26 PM (GMT -6)   
The Cowden protocol has changed and evolved over the years. The new condensed protocol uses more potent forms of the herbs that have been "infused". It also uses the serrapeptase and some different herbs, enula, mora etc.  You don't have to take the herbs eight times a day anymore. Now its a more reasonable four times a day.

jc27
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 176
   Posted 5/22/2009 9:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Has anyone used this protocol while on antibiotics? Could this be harmful?

minerals
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 943
   Posted 5/23/2009 8:35 PM (GMT -6)   
after treating lyme, babs, bart for 2 1/2 years I am on a modified cowden along with antibiotics for 2 months now. Samento, cumanda, parsley serrapeptase, suppliments probiotics etc.....................I will keep you posted on results.
DX. LYME  7 /03 -I believe I 've had it since 1985- 
oral doxi, amoxi 6 months. Have been bitten 2x since                  
Developed many chemical & food sensitivities& Allergies to many Suppliments
Swollen Burning tongue/lips
Hashimotos Thyroiditis
DX. Babsiosis 4/07 -Malerone 2 wks, Mepron & Azithromax 6 mos. 
Armour Thyroid
Probiotics are a MUST   
Almost died from 3 doses of Plaquanil 12/07
IV Rocephin began 12/4/07
Bactrim began 1/22/07
Stopped Rocephin 3/04/08
DX Micoplasma
Mepron, Azithrommax, Rafampin 5/29/08
Stopped Rifampin began Bactrim and zithro 6/2/08
stopped Mepron 7 22/08
switched from bactrim to levaquin and had bad reaction to levaquin
began Mepron again till Nov, then began Malerone
began Rifampin and Minocycline 9/08
modified cowden protocol 3/09
Outstare The Darkness--The Light Will Come!


jc27
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 176
   Posted 5/24/2009 1:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Have your symptoms improved on Cowden + antibiotics?

minerals
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 943
   Posted 5/25/2009 3:28 PM (GMT -6)   
I am not sure I have improved as a result of cowden. I think I am improving though.
DX. LYME  7 /03 -I believe I 've had it since 1985- 
oral doxi, amoxi 6 months. Have been bitten 2x since                  
Developed many chemical & food sensitivities& Allergies to many Suppliments
Swollen Burning tongue/lips
Hashimotos Thyroiditis
DX. Babsiosis 4/07 -Malerone 2 wks, Mepron & Azithromax 6 mos. 
Armour Thyroid
Probiotics are a MUST   
Almost died from 3 doses of Plaquanil 12/07
IV Rocephin began 12/4/07
Bactrim began 1/22/07
Stopped Rocephin 3/04/08
DX Micoplasma
Mepron, Azithrommax, Rafampin 5/29/08
Stopped Rifampin began Bactrim and zithro 6/2/08
stopped Mepron 7 22/08
switched from bactrim to levaquin and had bad reaction to levaquin
began Mepron again till Nov, then began Malerone
began Rifampin and Minocycline 9/08
modified cowden protocol 3/09
Outstare The Darkness--The Light Will Come!


Bluebird52
New Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 5/29/2009 12:43 AM (GMT -6)   
I just stared it. Would be interestedi n sharing experiences. I had previously worked the Cumanda for three months, so I thought starting this would be easy -- wrong! Had major herx, I think from the Sparga, so am leaving that one out till I can get more stable on the others.

How far along are you? They seem to ramp it up pretty quickly, and my naturopath said one can go slower.

+Lyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1295
   Posted 5/29/2009 1:11 AM (GMT -6)   
Hey -- I'm still new and learning, but isn't a major herx actually a good thing? I mean, from what I've read, you feel really terrible for awhile. But isn't the reason for that (herxing) because you are killing the danged spirochete bacteria? ie; isn't experiencing the herx reaction indication that whatever you are taking is working?

Bluebird52
New Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 5/29/2009 1:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, you are right. But you still have to keep it tolerable and be able to function somewhat. This was ER type of herx. But it also might have been due to the fact that I stopped a medication I had been taking for three years the night before, as my doctor thought it might interact with the anti-microbials. I'm feeling much better now, two days later :)

I cut out the Sparga for now, and will re-introduce it one drop at a time in a few days to see if I can get it up to tolerable levels. I worked with one bottle of Cumanda on my own before starting this complete protocol, and it took three months to get up to 10 drops 2x/day, so I don't imagine I'll be able to jump right in with both feet at full dosages of this CCP. Though both Nutrimedix and my naturopath said it's okay to work up from lesser doses.

kingrew
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 6/6/2009 5:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Its importent to take the Cowden protocol according to the schedule they give you from Nutramedix. You really need to take the detox herbs to help with herx reactions. Taking extra burbur really helps. The protocol won't work unless you are drinking at least 12 cups of water a day. I found drinking more water helps with herx as well. You need the extra magnesium to have regular bowel movements to get the toxins out - at least two bowel movements a day. I take CALM by Natural Vitality every night to supplement because I needed extra magnesium. I'll be interested in hearing from someone who has been on the Cowden condensed protocol for at least six months to see how it went. I know it takes at very least two months on Cowden protocol to see results for anyone with long term lyme.

Bluebird52
New Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 6/7/2009 6:35 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm about 15 days into it now and having bad headaches, but I figure I'm not detoxing enough (very constipated, ahem). I am doing all the burbur, pinella and parsley as recommended. But I have trouble with magnesium. I get an awful, totally incapacitating headache every time I try and take it. (that has gone on for years, I finally gave up.) I've never been able to figure out why this is, neither can any doctor or naturopath tell me. It's always on the L side, where I have problems with my eye, and had a root canaled tooth (now removed).

So I have not been able to take much magnesium. I was taking one capsule per night, but that produced the headache after a few days, so I may try one capsule every second or third day. I'll be talking to Nutrimedix about this, to see how necessary it is.

Also, the Sparga seems to be hard to take at the full 10 drops, so I'm up to 6 now. It's a sulfur detoxifier, and I have some sulfur involvement in that I have porphyria (acquired along with chemical sensitivity), and you're not supposed to have sulfa drugs with that. So have to take that a little slowly as well.

I'm also taking the ramping schedule of Samento and Banderol more slowly than they suggest. I asked Nutrimedix if this was okay, and they said absolutely fine. So feel like I've got good guidance there. The Condensed Protocol has those ramped up to a full 30 drops 2x/day each, within fifteen days! That's way too fast for me, 120 drops of those heavy-hitters within 15 days. The Banderol seems less intense for me, less herx, but the Samento is really a "big gun".

But otherwise it's going well, the initial tiredness wore off and I'm feeling more myself but for these darned headaches and constipation. I may have to resort to the enema bag!

Thanks for any advice, comments etc. I'll keep you apprised of progress.

-Bluebird

beths
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 690
   Posted 6/7/2009 7:08 PM (GMT -6)   
So, if I have the "old nutramedix herbs, I can't switch to the condensed protocol? Hate to throw away 3 months worth.

pcpc
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 214
   Posted 6/8/2009 8:18 AM (GMT -6)   
Beths, call Nutramedix and ask about some substitutions- they are helpful. 

kingrew
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 6/9/2009 9:57 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm still using the old Nutramedix herbs along with the new condensed protocol. They give you one infused bottle of each of the antimicrobials (ie: Samento) and when you are nearly finished with the bottle, you pour a regular bottle of Samento into the infused bottle and succuss it ( hit it against your hand) 50 times to mix it well with the remnants of the infused Samento. I'm familiar with homeopathic meds so this seems very similiar. I've been able to make use of my old Nutramedix herbs along the way. I was only on the old ones for about a month when I was told about the condensed version.

beths
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 690
   Posted 6/10/2009 7:46 AM (GMT -6)   
I called nutramedix-they won't sell the infised bottle seperately. You have to buy the whole month..I'm screwed. I have 4 months of the old protocol..too expensive to throw away.

pcpc
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 214
   Posted 6/10/2009 7:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Beths, I don't think you are screwed - the old protocol works- it worked for me for years- they are just experimenting with a simpler protocol and having good results with it. I would use what you have now or after you finish the modified- I plan to stay on Cowden herbs indefinitely and their shelf life is good. Are you working with a good practitioner?

beths
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 690
   Posted 6/10/2009 10:53 AM (GMT -6)   
I have a great LLMD-but not very well versed in Cowden. What is the modified protocol? I am still on abx. I feel pretty good, but I think most of my problems now are from my stomach issues..GERD can cause same ones as lyme..Shortness of breath, palps, etc.
 
 
If someone explain the modified, I'ld be greatful..I don't need/want the full protocol.
 
Thanks!

kingrew
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 6/14/2009 5:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Nutramedix will provide 6 months free Cowden protocol to one patient per doctor if the doctor applies for it

beths
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 690
   Posted 6/14/2009 10:09 PM (GMT -6)   
My LLMD ordered it for another pt

ozoneGirl
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 7/2/2010 3:59 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Everyone,
 
I'm new to this forum, but unfortunately a Lyme 'veteran'.  I joined because I wanted to reply to this thread, & to Beths in particular.
 
I was diagnosed about 4 years ago, but probably contracted Borrelia about 10 years ago.  You know the type of story-I gradually slowed down, but then very fortunately eventually, through my Nutritionist, found a CFS specialist who turned out to be a LLMD .  I've done 18 months of different abx combined with Samento for about...3-4 years.  Plus many nutritional supps, good diet, lots of water, thyroid hormones (T3 & ERFA (which is like Armour)) etc. etc....  [I've tried a number of other treatments, some wth very negative side-effects, but I'm not mentioning them here as I know that they have been great for other patients.  It's a very individual thing, isn't it?]  I'm much better now than I was, but still not 'there' yet. 
 
My LLMD (UK) talked to me about the Cowden Condensed Protocol this week, & since then I've been doing some research:
 
- A lot of good stuff has already been said in this thread, so I'll just include any additional info'.
 
- The full details of the Condensed Protocol can be found here:
 
- It is fine & recommended to go as slowly with increasing dosage as your body needs.  It also needs to be adjusted for body weight.
 
- The new 'infused' Banderol, Samento, Mora, Enula, Cumanda & Quina can be used with their 'old' original equivalents - that's because with the new Protocol you get one bottle of the new infused versions of each, which you then top up with the 'normal (uninfused) versions.  [So perhaps Beths, you could get Month 1 of the new Condensed Protocol & then use your 'old' NutraMedix herbs with these?  N.B. You only get 2 'infused' bottles in Month 1-Samento & Banderol.]
 
- I'm considering getting Month 1 of the Condensed Protocol to get the infused Samento & Banderol, since these are the two herbs my LLMD has most success with. 
 
- This success may be partly explained by a very interesting study published just this month (July 2010) on combined Samento & Banderol:

This indicates that Samento & Banderol work best together, & kill Spirochetes and ‘Round Bodies’ and ‘Biofilm-like Colonies’ of Borrelia Burgdorferi.  I.e. All forms. smilewinkgrin

 

And interestingly, Doxy’ only kills Spirochetes, whilst increasing ‘Round Bodies’. shocked  

My conclusion (& it is mine idea ) is that, presumably, the Doxy’ prompts the Spirochetes to go into defensive mode & hang around in the ‘Round Body’ form until the Doxy’ stops.  This probably explains why people relapse after finishing abx as the Round forms convert back to Spirochetes & go back to their old mischief in greater numbers than before. sad

 

-I’m therefore definitely going to get some Banderol (may, or may, not be infused), & add it in very gradually with my Samento. smilewinkgrin smilewinkgrin smilewinkgrin

 

-My LLMD & I are going to discuss whether it's worth me doing the full Condensed Protocol after we get the results back from my most recent tests (Inter-Cellular Calcium, B12 & Thyroid function).

 

-I also find that Oxygen helps with energy & detox, e.g. Aerobic Oxygen

 

 

So that's my bit of input - hope that helps people.

 

I've also got a couple of related questions, which I'll ask here & then do a separate post:

 

Pinella is one of the newer NutraMedix Cowden herbs (it's used in the first few days of the Condensed Protocol along with Burbur & Parsley to detox) - does anyone have any experience of using it?

 

Does anyone have experience of using Teasel (not a Cowden herb, but maybe should be)?!

 

 

I also find that a smile helps - see the De-Stressing thread.

 

turn turn turn

ozoneGirl


All-Seeing Eye
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 183
   Posted 10/24/2010 5:46 PM (GMT -6)   
i'm on the condensed cowden and i'm wondering about teasel as well. I've also been using ldm-100 with it and getting a nasty rash on my neck every time I up the dose . what you guys think?

Tala3
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 233
   Posted 10/25/2010 5:52 PM (GMT -6)   
I have used teasel root extract. I honestly don't know if it works or not because I still have symptoms. I used two bottles of it - each lasting about 4 months, and had taken a break of about 4 months in between. When I started it the first time I thought it produced a herx reaction because I had more pain, but the second bottle I didn't have a reaction like that. I'm glad I tried it and it was cheap, but if it helped I have no idea.
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