Any One Heard or Tried Benicar??

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shadowmom
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 24
   Posted 5/15/2009 12:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Good afternoon, everyone!  I'm posting again because I've read some pretty interesting articles about the benits of using Benicar to stop, or slow down the inflammatory progession of lyme.  In my explanation, I'm gonna get  a little techncal, so please bear with me!
 
O.K., here goes!  I found an interesting article written by Dr. Scott Taylor (who is a lyme sufferer himself) on the pathogenesis of lyme, and how it causes a self-perpetuating inflammatory disease.  In fact, the article goes on to state " .... the molecular component of the pathogen .... are the bacterial lipoproteins (BLPS) which are found within the outer surface proteins of the borrelia cell membrane."  BLPs are fat-soluable toxins and are often a structural part of the borrelia cell membrane and are very potent immunomodulators even in small amounts.  Thus, a few borrelia can produce enough BLPs to initiate significant disease.  It goes on to explain that BLPs trigger many harmful responses in tisses and organ symtems of the human body and produce symptoms such as fibromyalgia, arthritis, neurological signs, psychiatric disorders, immunologic dysfunctions, and endocrine deficiencies.  Bottom line, they can make you really, really sick!
 
Dr. Scott further explains that it is his opinion that the inflammation triggered by the fat-soluable BLPs toxins is responsible for most, if not all symptoms of borreliosis. So, the innate immune system and the acquired immune system are strongly triggered by the presence of the borrelia BLPs.   Wow, what a statement and it actually makes sense to me!
 
Following that logic, he states that the build up of these BLPs toxins also cause channelopathy, which lead to a dysfunction of signals along neurons, muscles and cells making them easily excitable, but not able to discharge correctly.  This can attribute to numerous symptoms such as anxiety, paresthesias, and tremors that many lyme disease patients have.  When borrelia is killed (such as with abx) the BLP's are released from then and patients experience a nerx reaction, which in severe cases this response can be quite acute.
 
The article I reference above then lead to Dr. Scott's explanation why he thinks Benicar, an angiotensin receptor blocker, could, or can be a "medical miracle for those suffering with chronic borreliosis.  Please bear with me one more time while I go through the reasons for his conclusion:
 
So, BLP's activates the innate immune system through what are called Toll-like receptors (TLR).  Many cell types  throughout the body carry the TLR receptors and these receptors are able to recognize patterns unique to microbioal pathogens (lyme).  The body uses TLRs to detect the presence of many microbial pathogens, not just lyme.  The TLRs that are most likely involved in lyme are TLR 2, 6 and 1, but TLR 2 likely plays the major role.  Dr. Scott says research proves that when BLPs activate the Toll-like receptors (TLRs) this stimulates the gene expression for inflammatory cytokines.  Thus, why lyme is know as an inflammatory disease! 
 
Dr. Scott studies with Dr. Trevor Marshall who has written many articles on possible treatments for lyme and associated diseases.  Some of which, to be honest, I found a little "out there".  However, when Dr. Marshall was trying to develop a new treatement protocol for another inflammatory disease, which can be triggered by lyme, he discovered that using an Angiotensin Receptor Blocker, such as BENICAR, the inflammatory cascade is interrupted in lyme patients.  Dr. Marshall and Dr. Scott believe that the discovery that during the pathogenesis of lyme the BLPs trigger inflammation via TLR signaling the expression for inflammatory cytokines.  When the inflammatory cascade goes chronic, it eventually goes into the self-perpetuating cycle which produces disease symptoms.  They believe their research has provided the model for the pathogenesis, and also the therapeutic approach that will break the perpetual cycle of inflammatory! 
 
I'm so sorry that I felt I needed to get very technical with my explanation, but could this really be the "medical miracle" for putting the breaks on the inflammatory cascade so well known by lyme patients?  Even Dr. Burrascano talks about the "inflammatory cascade" in his guidelines, and attributes "chronic lyme" symptoms to this problem.
 
Thus, if you block this process by using an angiotensin receptor blockage like BENICAR, the perpetual cycle of inflammation can be broken and maybe, just maybe the symptoms will resolve!   Am I crazy, but for some reason this makes sense to me!!
 
Please, please forgive me for this "book", but I'd really like any and all opinions or feedback you have on this possible treatment.  Have any of you ever heard of this?  Has anyone ever tried it?  BTW, neither doctor suggests stopping antibiotics, only supplementing with BENICAR. 
 
Thanks for your patience with me - best wishes, prayers and hugs to all!

 

RottenDog
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1013
   Posted 5/15/2009 1:11 PM (GMT -6)   
i'd be willing to give it a go, if i can find a Dr. to treat me at all. btw i called the CDC and health dept and the HD has resived a notiest i have lymes, and isnt to happy that the ID will not treat me. i also put in a call to my reg Dr to call me. hoping to twist his arm to treat me and we can study this together.

and no your book was great :)

wishing you and yours all the best.
   RD
                                                                                                                 
 
still looking for answers
 


judy3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 667
   Posted 5/15/2009 1:32 PM (GMT -6)   

You need to be very carefull with Benicar, especially with the mega doses the Marshal Protocal call for, if you have high blood pressure give it a shot but I was treated for LD for approx 1 1/2 years and got better, but as soon as I got better I had a hyperactive thyroid due to too much synthroid, one of the problems I had was fluctating pressure and pulse, I went on 20 mg of Benicar and felt better within a few hours, I was on Benicar for a few months and my pressure started going crazy, 85/49, it was really scarry, I tried to stop the Benicar but couldnt , than I weaned slowly and even at 5mg of Benicar my pressure was low, when I developed my hyperactive thyroid I also got tremers on the left side of my body or a strong pulse cant figure it out yet, which went away once I was on Benicar, but came back once I was off Benicar, I will see my cardiologist to discuss this with him.

Benicar in moderation and if you have High Blood Pressure is something to look into, if your blood pressure is normal be VERY CAREFUL!, sorry I couldnt hold back from the warning because of how terrible I felt


JELAINEP
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2017
   Posted 5/15/2009 1:35 PM (GMT -6)   
What is Benacar usually prescribed for?
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.  - Margaret Meade
06/00- The beginning, 08/01-LD positive, 10/01- Igenex and CDC LD positive, 10/02-LD positive, 11/03-LD positive, 10/07-Bartonella positive, CD57=3, possibly just tested positive for koseri IgA, Morganella motgani,Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever (RMSF - yay! another acronym), Typhus Fever, Klebsiella pneumonia, Proteus miabilis, Citrobacter i IgA, Hafnia alvai IgA, NKC4, Interleukin 4 (IL4), IL8, Immunobillin (IM01). 
Current Rx's 11/12/08: Wellbutrin 300mg, Paxil 60mg, Xanax 5mg, Acidophilus, Lyrica 600mg
"How much more can I take?", songhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHiR1xeOSs


shadowmom
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 24
   Posted 5/15/2009 2:56 PM (GMT -6)   

Thanks, Judy!  To be honest, I was wondering how this could affect people with normal blood pressure, as this drug is normally prescribed for people with high blood pressure.  Thanks for your thoughts, and I hope this all works out for you and hope your cardiologist can help you resolve this issue.

It was also so good to hear of some one who improved with lyme treatment!  Oh Lord, maybe there is hope! 

I'd still like any feedback anyone would like to provide.  Knowledge is power!  Thanks, and God bless all!


kitty9309
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 163
   Posted 5/15/2009 7:46 PM (GMT -6)   
I was on 40 mg Benicar a day from December until February.

It was then that I noticed near fainting spells due to low BP.

I had to totally stop taking it.

I was worried about it's effects on aldosterone as I have possible POTS/adrenal issues.

LLMD said good point and we gave it up. Many of his patients use it sucessfully, though.

Benicar is rx'd for high blood pressure, usually.


 


Dagger
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1522
   Posted 5/15/2009 9:00 PM (GMT -6)   
I was prescribed Benicar to treat borderline high blood pressure. At the lowest dose, the Benicar dropped my blood pressure down too low. I had some other side affects that were unbearable so I had to stop.

If you choose to try Benicar following the Marshall protocol, don't just rely on their information. Many people in my local support group tried it and followed all the rules. Some tried it for as long as a year. Most suffered from herx-like symptoms or side effects from the meds, they weren't sure what caused the problems. The MP people call the symtoms Herxes and say it shows the drug works. Other docs call the symptoms bad side effects and way it just means you shouldn't take the drug.

Of the dozen people, not one improved and they all regret trying it. Since it's not generic, it is expensive and your insurance may not pay for the quantities the Marshall protocol requires, especially if you don't have high blood pressure.

If this really were the "medical miracle" you'd find a lot more people with success stories.

We are all different so it may work for you. Just do your research and check with multiple, unrelated sources so you can make a good decision for yourself.

BTW, antibiotics gave me my life back. I wouldn't consider myself cured because I still have problems but I went from unable to work or take care of myself or my family to being able to work a full time job and do most of what I want.

shadowmom
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 24
   Posted 5/16/2009 12:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, Dagger - your post and others have helped me make a decision - don't think we'll be trying Benicar!  My sister has enough problems - we don't need to trigger any more!
 
Thanks again to all who responded - take care everyone!

judy3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 667
   Posted 5/17/2009 8:02 AM (GMT -6)   
My LLMD told me that when vitamin D levels are very low benicar acts as an anti inflammatory , so it may have worked for me as I had very  high blood pressure and may have  had pericarditis, but I would be very very careful with 40mg of Benicar, is a person follows MP and dont go out and stay in a cave like environment it may not be so scary with a low pressure, but I am living in year 2009, we are not cave men

JELAINEP
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2017
   Posted 5/17/2009 11:17 AM (GMT -6)   
I hate this disease.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.  - Margaret Meade
06/00- The beginning, 08/01-LD positive, 10/01- Igenex and CDC LD positive, 10/02-LD positive, 11/03-LD positive, 10/07-Bartonella positive, CD57=3, possibly just tested positive for koseri IgA, Morganella motgani,Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever (RMSF - yay! another acronym), Typhus Fever, Klebsiella pneumonia, Proteus miabilis, Citrobacter i IgA, Hafnia alvai IgA, NKC4, Interleukin 4 (IL4), IL8, Immunobillin (IM01). 
Current Rx's 11/12/08: Wellbutrin 300mg, Paxil 60mg, Xanax 5mg, Acidophilus, Lyrica 600mg
"How much more can I take?", songhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHiR1xeOSs


momtothree
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 293
   Posted 5/18/2009 7:43 AM (GMT -6)   
The first LLMD I saw, 09/06, uses the Marshall Protocol.  I was unsure if this was the route I wanted to follow.  I asked questions on different Lyme forums and there was some controversy.  Of those who tried it, the majority did not like it and felt they saw no improvement.  Needless to say, I found a new LLMD ASAP.
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