Buhner Protocol?

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KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 5/20/2009 9:45 AM (GMT -6)   
Anyone tried the Buhner Protocol?  What were your experiences (good or bad)?  I am looking for something new to try, I just did 6 months of Zhang's and after stopping am backsliding really bad.  Any info would be appreciated!
Thanks, KO
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 


nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 5/20/2009 7:13 PM (GMT -6)   
I switched from Buhner to Zhang. Now I am using some of both plus Cowden. Buhner says cat's claw is just as good as TOA free samento which is much more expensive. I use the samento as I want to be sure. When I used andrographis I had bladder pain and irritation. That might have been due to bartonella. I haven't tried it again. When I first tried Zhang's HH capsules it gave me bad insomnia which I now believe was due to bartonella which was undiagnosed until recently. It does not bother me now after having used abx for bart and getting it more under control. I use Reserveratrol which Buhner recommends. I also use grapefruit seed extract for the cyst form of lyme. And cumanda/quina.

KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 5/21/2009 5:17 AM (GMT -6)   
Nefferdun,
I was on regular Cat's Claw before I was diagnosed (for Tendinitis) and my first CD-57 was 76 my last one after 6 months of Zhang's was 34. I also tried Samento and didn't see any difference from the regular Cat's Claw.
KO
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 


Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4396
   Posted 5/21/2009 5:35 AM (GMT -6)   
I started Buhner's Core Lyme Protocol by adding 1 of the 3 main herbs at a time. I did fine with the cat's claw and andrographis, but after 1 week of the resvaritrol, my gut shut itself down and I haven't been able to eat since (this hit me in June of 2008 - I've been on TPN (food through a vein) ever since, and still cannot get my esophagus or stomach to work...). 2 LLMD's plus 1 LLND thinks this is from a Lyme/Bartonella herx response from the herbs. So be careful with these herbs. I also had a flare-up of joint pain just prior to the gut shut-down, and did find Buhner's recommendation of Nettles for this to be very, very helpful. The few days of nettle capsules I was able to swallow gave me pain relief that lasted over a month after I could no longer swallow the nettles capsules...I was quite impressed. And later, after the joint pain returned, I tried topical application of a nettles poultice, and it too helped reduce the joint pain in the joints that were treated.

Most who try the herbal protocols don't go through what I have gone through; it is suspected that I've had Lyme at least 30 years, so it has had a lot of time to do plenty of damage to my body.

Take care,
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; G-Tube; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Colloidal Silver (used topically), IV Milk Thistle, probiotics.


KeepHope
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 222
   Posted 5/21/2009 10:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Razzle. WoW I am so sorry to have read that your system shut down so severely that you have to have food through a vein. This must be so very hard. Nobody has been able to help your situation and get your digestion back on tract? That is intense and I have not heard of such a thing.
It is great to warn others though too that the herbs are not anything to take lightly. Just because they are "herbs" They are powerful. I have not yet tried Buhners Or Zang or Cowden and really want to know all the differences and their ideas first. As well I just have not had time to do a lot of reading and researching so it is on my list of things to do.
I know I do not want to be on abx forever.
Anyway.. Gosh. My heart goes out to you and I sure hope this can be resolved for you.
Thank you for all your help here too on the forum and I have not said this to you but I appreciate you consistent and steady responses that are always informative and real.

Your a huge benefit and asset to the forum and the lyme community and esp other lyme sufferers looking for support and information. I know it takes a lot of time and effort to be here doing this all the time.
THANK YOU SO MUCH

KH

nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 5/21/2009 2:42 PM (GMT -6)   
I agree with KeepHope, Razzle. I too feel for you and hope you get your digestive system working again. I can tolerate a huge amount of herbs but not the abx. I found out I got sick from the herbs when it was affecting undiagnosed bartonella. Thanks for the tip about nettle. I still have tendinitis from levequin (I think) and I could use some pain relief.

KO-LD I read somewhere that bartonella affects the CD57 test and when you have been treated for bart your CD-57 score will go lower showing up the lyme. I don't know if you were treating bart or even if you have it.
However I did not find Zhang to be very effective either. I read in Schaller's book that all of these herbs have to be taken at very high doses to do any good. He says the recomendation is "very low" - so I theorize that very high would be at least 5 times that much. I was told by several people that they were told to take 6-7 times what is recommended of the HH capsules and when they did, they saw a big improvement.
But a lot of people cannot tolerate high levels - have to get more well first and then work up.

Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4396
   Posted 5/21/2009 3:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Nefferdun,

Thanks for your kind words. If your tendons are inflammed from the Levaquain, you may find help from magnesium supplements. I read somewhere that magnesium deficiency sets the stage for tendon damage from certain abx. I'd also recommend epsom salt bath soaks to help reduce the inflammation.

KeepHope,

Thanks for your kind words too. It is beneficial to me to help others as I go through this journey to wellness, because it keeps my hope up (love your screen name, btw). One of the difficulties is disbelief in the reality of my symptoms and disbelief in Chronic Lyme by the specialists I need to see to get my gut working again, so I'm kinda on my own with all of this. I've discovered ginger candy that I can suck on and manage to swallow slowly and it helps me be able to get the probiotics to go down (which I feel is a hugely important step in recovery from this mess). My Naturopath is also working diligently on getting my nutrition to optimal levels so my body has the raw materials it needs to heal.

Take care,
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; G-Tube; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Colloidal Silver (used topically), IV Milk Thistle, probiotics.


nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 5/22/2009 7:03 AM (GMT -6)   
Razzle, one of my favorite cats who is now 12 years old(I have four and adore them all,) was abandoned and starving when we found him. He weighed only 6 oz. I took him to the vet who promptly gave him a wormer which completely shut down his system so he could not eat. Sure that he would die my daughter and I took him to a wild life rehabilitator. She gave me electrolites and a very high calorie paste used for animals like him dying from starvation. We fed him with an eyedropper but he did not respond and we were giving up hope. After a week of this with no improvement, my daughter and I were sitting on the floor holding him in our laps and eating a cinnamon roll, crying. The little guy got up and picked up a crumb and ate it!
I consider him our miracle baby. He is a big very healthy cat that is the most loving animal I have every had. I hope that you experience the same miracle very soon.

KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 5/26/2009 8:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Razzle,
Thanks for the info.  Sorry to hear about the TPN, that sucks!  I will take your suggestion and start them 1 at a time to see how I react.  How long between each herb did you wait?  Also, the doctor thinks I was infected in the early 80"s going from my symptoms, so It's been a long time for me too.  I suspect that I may have Bartonella, I tested neg thru Igenex, but feel I have most of the symptoms.  So hard to know.  I'll keep you in my prayers.
 
Nefferdun,  If you can find the article about the Bartonella affecting the CD-57 score please let me know.  There isn't much out there that I could find about the CD-57 and what I could find said the only thing to affect it was LD.  I would like to read whatever you found.
 
Thanks, KO
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 


Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4396
   Posted 5/26/2009 1:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi KO,

I waited about a week or so between herbs. Maybe I should have waited longer, I don't know. But I seemed to be doing fine with the andrographis and the cat's claw and I was eager to get going on this treatment...so my word of advice would be to have patience and take it slow.

Good luck,
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; G-Tube; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Colloidal Silver (used topically), IV Milk Thistle, probiotics.


KO-LD
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 5/26/2009 2:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Razzle,  Did you add a herb after 1 week, or stop the first one and start a new 1 to see if you have a reaction to it?
Thanks, KO
2001 symptoms started:
Tingling in fingers and toes both sides, not tested at that time for LD
2007 Summer tested pos. WB, diagnosed with LD, tested neg for co-infections thru Igenex
Abx - Doxy 100mg 2x/day for 3 weeks (before diagnosis)
Amoxicillin 1gm 2x/day for 1 month
Amoxicillin 1gm 3x/day with Probenecid 500mg 2x/day  5 months 
Currently on Dr. Zhang's protocol 


Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4396
   Posted 5/26/2009 3:10 PM (GMT -6)   
I started the cat's claw, then added in the andrographis after about a week, so then I was taking both cat's claw and the andrographis. I used regular cat's claw, not samento.

Take care,
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; G-Tube; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Colloidal Silver (used topically), IV Milk Thistle, probiotics.

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