what are the most obvious coinfection symptoms

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2long4this
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 37
   Posted 9/4/2009 6:00 PM (GMT -6)   
I have read the lists for coinfections and it seems like I could have either one or none..hard to tell.

I was wondering what are the most obvious symptoms for everyone. There must be some that directly point to each co infection. There's just so much overlap.

I tested negative for both bart and babs, but have been treating for both for almost a year now and nothing seems to change.

Just trying to tease it out a little. I recently took a break from meds and I'm holding where I was so far but I've started getting bad night sweats. I know this could be babs, but it seems like it could be lyme or bart as well.

I wish I could get a direct answer from my doctor, but I can't. Thanks all....

Nicky D
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 361
   Posted 9/4/2009 11:02 PM (GMT -6)   
As far as I know, night sweats are the classic symptoms of babesia- if you have night sweats where you soak your sheets, both my LLMD and LLND would assume babesia. Shortness of breath is also very indicative of babesia.

For bartonella- if you get the scratch/stretch marks, it's a dead giveaway, but not everyone gets them.

There might be more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head

2long4this
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 37
   Posted 9/5/2009 8:53 AM (GMT -6)   
when I mention the night sweats to my LLMD he asks if I get chills, and when I say no, other than I get cold because I'm wet, he dismisses the babs symptom. No air hunger, headaches, etc.

I never had any marks from bart..my feet hurt a little while during treatment but that went away.
Didn't really last long and wasn't bad.

I did get really bad anxiety but nothing has made that go away so far so I wonder if it's due to bart at all.

I just wish something would make a difference so I knew I was on the right track..so frustrating.

nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 9/5/2009 2:23 PM (GMT -6)   
I can just tell you my symptoms for bartonella. I have hot flashes at night but rarely sweat. My shins hurt - most of the time it is people's feet. I have a lot of headaches - take immetrex for them as they are migraine like causing upset stomach. My eyes are very dry and light sensitive. I take hyaluronic acid for that. Emotionally when I am most affected by bart, I feel apathetic and unmotivated. I am depressed but not weepy, just beyond caring. I can also be cranky and negative. I never had streaks on my skin or stretch marks that I can see. I have had pea size brown spots (which are fading with treatment) and tiny blood blisters. I have lumps along my shin bone that do not hurt and I have small lumps other places, not on bone but under the skin that hurt when I press them. Some people have swollen lymph nodes - I don't. I have swelling on my shins above my feet. Swelling is common with bart and it does not dent like normal. I had a lot of muscle twitching. When it was bad I felt completely detached from myself and the world, like going into a fog emotionally as well as mentally. I forget nouns. That is a bigger. I cannot recall people's names - once my own son!

Nicky D
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 361
   Posted 9/5/2009 3:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Wow nefferdun! Our symptoms for bart are really similar. I forgot that the muscle twitches were from bart. And that brought to mind something else. My LLMD said that while both Bart and Babesia can cause anxiety, Babesia causes sudden panic attacks out of nowhere, while Bart causes constant anxiety, that can come and go in waves.

Chasz
New Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 9/11/2009 3:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey everyone,

Muscle twitches are Bartonella? And here I was thinking my 30 day course of oral doxi had failed and the Borrelia reached my central nervous system. I haven't tested my spinal fluid yet so I'm not sure. (And I also have crackling joints, more than "normal"/before I was infected. Is this also a symptom of a co-infection?)

But if twitching is Bartonella then this sheds an entirely different light on the issue I'm trying to get noticed in my other post.
 
 
Good health.

Greetings Chasz

Nicky D
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 361
   Posted 9/11/2009 5:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Chasz,

Just a heads up- people with Lyme disease have only about a 20% chance of getting it found from a lumbar puncture. It is really, really hard to find that way.

Unfortunately, 30 days of doxy is probably not enough- regardless of whether you have co-infections or not. If you are having continuing symptoms, you need further treatment. I would recommend finding an LLMD (lyme-literate MD) in your area, and going to see them.

Woopsie- just read that you were in the netherlands. Hmm. I believe there is a european support group with a website, but I don't know the name of it. If you can find it, they will probably know more about your options than I do.

Post Edited (Nicky D) : 9/11/2009 5:35:04 PM (GMT-6)


Chasz
New Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 9/11/2009 7:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Nicky-D,

Thanx for the tips. Yeah I know a puncture is not reliable at all, I read 30% detection rates somewhere but it's still low. Besides I don't like the thought of it at all :) As for the doxy, in my case I should have gotten 14 days of it, so I'm sort of fortunate that my doctor gave me 30. But if I knew what I know now I'd probably ask for 400 mg's for 60 days. Too late for that now though.
My knowledge on the subject increased a lot during a year of trying to figure out what strange things were happening in my body. Studying test results, forums, emailing with doctors in Germany, The Uk, America, Austria etc. Aswell as looking into portable hyperbarics and salt c( from the german borreliose abhilfe website) I actually tried the latter and it was only then that my fasculations lessened aswell as my elisa values dropped. Ofcourse I don't recommend it to anyone since it's not an officially recognized treatment and it might have been a placebo effect, but still. If you do use it, remember to use himalaya salt and not the kitchen salt. And to have your blood and urine values checked regularly (kidney function), aswell as your bloodpressure. I also used vitamin c based on calcium and ester c so it wasnt as bad for my stomach, and ofcourse drinking plenty of water! I drank ten mouthfulls on one swig salt/c. Lol sorry for the long explanation but since I'm mentioning it I might aswell do it right :) Ofcourse if you do decide to use it check out the various sites on this topic, my explanation here is hardly enough info to get started!
Anyway I'm going for a couple of PCR's (Borrelia DNA testing) in Urine, Blood and Semen in a couple of weeks (if you read my other post you'll know why I included the last one) and to check my elisa values again. Also I want to do another co-infection testrun since the last ones were somewhat inconclusive. There are no LLMD's here so I have had to figure this stuff out for myself, not uncommon to a lot of Lymies I guess, and I do the tests at a privately owned lab.

Hey it keeps you busy right? ;) I'm still waiting IMpatiently :) for the lyme-bubble to burst. I guess I'm not the only one. How great would it be if doctors could asscertain without a shadow of a doubt that the bacteria is either still living inside you or is completely gone. This might also do away with the whole post lyme THEORY(cause that's all it is untill real proof exists)

Good health

Greetings Chasz

Post Edited (Chasz) : 9/11/2009 7:47:35 PM (GMT-6)


nefferdun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 9/12/2009 8:14 AM (GMT -6)   
Both lyme and bartonella can cause muscle twitching. One way I think you can guesstimate you have bart is to take your temperature several times a day. If it spikes, especially in the morning, you probably have bart (or babesia). Lyme keeps it subnormal because that is the way the borrelia bacteria thrive. Heat kills them. In fact one treatment used in the past was to raise the body temperature of people - unfortunately some patients died from the remedy. Lyme dies when exposed to temps over 106 degrees F. That is why exercise, hot baths and sauna are so good for you. When lyme was overtaking me I was only comfortable under a hot electric blanket. When bart became the primary vector I felt hot much of the time.


I know there are people that order abx from India when the doctors will not give it to them. Then they go to the doctor and tell them they are alcoholics and want their liver checked. Isn't that crazy that we are forced to do something like that to stay alive?

If I were you Chasz, I would order some heavy duty herbs such as TOA free cat's claw (search online) and grapefruit seed extract.
Andrographis is also supposed to be good and garlic (allicin) is great if you can tolerate the stink. Take about 5 times what is recommended working up slowly so you do not overwelm yourself.
Start this before you quit the doxy. I believe you may not have killed enough of the bacteria in just a month to get by on herbs alone. But you can see what happens.
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