Depression and mood problems: Amox vs Candida?

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+Lyme
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Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1304
   Posted 9/25/2009 7:00 AM (GMT -6)   
Once again, I apologize for the length of this post.  But I need to know if others feel these things and get an idea from where some of this misery comes. 
 
 Dejavu -- I just noticed your new post on leaky brain, as I was preparing to post a new topic.  So it looks like I'll need to follow  your link as maybe it answers some of my questions. Unfortunately, I am heading to bed and will have to read the article later today.
 
Others -- I am sincerely not writing this to garner attention and sympathy. You ALL need these things as well. I'm writing this because I need help understanding this and possibly help others who might experience the same thing. I need information, not sympathy.  Seriously.
 
I also apologize that I have posted similar posts in the past, but my questions about this are new ones.
 
I have been suffering horrible mood swings -- mainly a depression that comes on out of the blue, feels like a  physical 'punch' in the face, also feelings of desperation and desire to escape.  Horrible feelings of hopelessness.  Thus the forbidden 'S' word invasion, however I am confident that I won't be going there. (Altho it is a little scary when you know you your mind is not your own -- ie; you feel like something else is controlling it.  Surely this is what drives many people to end it all. It is hard to blame them -- their disease has taken over their mind and they are not able to think clearly)
 
I am on treatment for depression and it has always been succuessful in the past, but not this time and this depression  is very different from what I've expereinced  in the past.
 
My Questions:
 
I read that 1 side effect of Amox is depression.  I am on 3500 mgs Amox per day.
 
I have also just looked up Candida as my tongue was white and gooey when I got up in the nite.  Could be the Rolaids that put me back to sleep, tho, I don't know.
 
Anyway, I see that depression and thoughts of suicide are symptoms of Candida.  I am on 3500 mgs of Amox per day and my probiotics may not be sufficient or too low in quality?  (that's a question)  I take 2 doses of  off the shelf acidopholus (sp?) and try to get 8-10 ounces of yogurt in per day.
 
My diet is not sugar free, however it's better than most folks i know. I consume no fast food and eat no desserts. No soft drinks at all.  Lots of water.   I've started a high protein breakfast (eggs, cheese, bacon) and am not consuming any other sugar except my Mocha frappacinno (w/ extra Mocha -- you MUST try it, oh my god). Still, a Vinte size lasts me 2-3 days.  ( This is what keeps me smoking)  My complex carbs are rye, mixed grain lite bread, and brown rice.  I do indulge in Honey bunches of oats, tho it is a relatively small serving.
 
you don't know me and cannot diagnose me. But I would like some insight and opinions on this depression that knocks me out almost daily. (slight improvement, maybe, but then it will come out of the blue.)  
 
It is absolutely tormenting.  I want to die, but I KNOW I do not want to die. I want to escape and go someplace away from everyone I know.  Sometimes I cannot go to work. I am on an anti-depressant which was always successful in the past -- but this sneaky depression is different from any I've ever known, except when I first showed symptoms of Lyme.
 
Still, I often feel like I have been 'ill' all of my adult life.  I have runninig some kind of up hill battle ever since I got married -- shortly after that old tick bite. I do not know that it is related, but it sure seems to have affected me for 10 years or more.
 
Well, I guess I can't expect anyone here to be able to diagnose me and I haven't exactly helped others here a lot.
 
but I'm asking for opinions/ knowledge from you all:  Does anyone think or believe this issue is more attributable to abx or to Candida, or just plaini lyme/babesia?  Again, I have experienced some improvement.  It has not been daily as a few weeks ago, when I believed it could have been a herx.  But the low is just as low, sometimes lower.
 
 But when it comes on, I flat out can't deal w/ it.  I reach out to family (esp my daughter) but can't explain it and everyone I know is sick of it.  I want to escape, run away, go away -- I want to spare them all my misery, yet I know how they would be hurt by me, possibly hate me for it.  I feel absolutely desperate.  Blind and bleak.  I don't know where to turn or what to do.
 
I often feel so desperate I get a irrestible desire to check into a hospital.  For what, I dont know -- just because I feel so sick.
 
But I have 2 dogs who need me and there is no way to board them for a month. I could never do that to them even if I could afford it. And there really is no one else to care for them. My daughter is already up to her eyeballs w/ her dogs and my son is leaving for Hong Kong) Stll, I can't leave them.  They are already warey of me -- they are sad because they know something is wrong and they get very upset when I cry.  I can't think or concentrate enough to help myself.  I feel totally mentally ill -- there is so much self loathing, helplessness, hopelessness, guilt . I cannot quiet my mind enough to sort it all our or come up w/ a plan to help myself.
 
I just feel desperate for some help of escape from my mind. I can't control it, I can't think positively when it's happening. And btw, when it leaves me, I am able to see things more clearly and actually understand that what had been happening was 'not me'.  And then I see hope.  But during those 'black' times, NOTHING helps, it feels hopeless.
 
Surely others here experience this. It is horrible. I sympathize and pray for all of you dealiing w/ this mess.
 
I know how ill most of you are and I am deeply sorry and pray for everyone trying to fight this mess. Everyone here has my sympathies and my prayers.  It is terrifying:  Some of us here will make it and some of us won't.  I love each and every one of you and pray for successful treatments and more answers to more questions.  Mostly I pray for some relief for everyone.
 
Any opinions on the causes?  Any experienced or Doctors here?
 
Becky


Bit 1972: Acute and chronic tonsillitis, UTI, miscarraige, appendicitis, hypoglycemia,  chronic neck pain w/ crushed vertibrae, chronic severe back pain, mitral valve prolapse, depression, resolution?
Bit Mother's Day 2007: Lyme, Babesia microti, hypothyroidism, EBV, HHV6, Parvovirus B19, low adrenals &misc other hormones, depression, anxiety, more of the above.
What don't these nasty bugs cause? 
CD57= 60, so we're in pretty good shape.
 

Post Edited (+Lyme) : 9/25/2009 7:08:08 AM (GMT-6)


CajunGrl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4717
   Posted 9/25/2009 8:05 AM (GMT -6)   
Lyme,

Im wondering....does the depression worsen a week before or around your monthly cycle? I get really depressed and angry a week before I'm about to start and I don't even have a cycle right now. Things stay on my mind alot more and I dwell on old things that I thought I had gotten over. It picks at my mind for days. I cry alot around this time too and feel really hopeless and upset. Once the week is over, my mind is clearer and I feel stupid for everything that just happened. It's hard to believe that I was thinking those things.
**You never know how STRONG you are....until being STRONG is the ONLY choice you have**

Co-Moderator Lyme Disease Forum


rutger
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 9/25/2009 11:29 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Cajungirl/Becky

I (Rutger from Holland) understand your depressions. I have the same purpose, no sympathy but info.
They have diagnosed lyme in Praha. There is a an alternative medical centre specialized in batteries and fungies.
The first weeks of the treatment were extremely heavy, detox.
But at least, this terrible depressions were gone. But 2 weeks ago it started again. Out of nothing, going down, untill big panic situations that I dont understand things anymore. I feel it change me, makes the good times far away and unrealistic. When i look at the girl I love so much, I see scary faces, I don't like to see her and the whole time im checking if she's beautiful or not. I know it's rediciless but I cannot help it. Disappointment and sadness take over, nobody is always beautiful and to watch the whole time is really stupid, but my mind is taken over. Until that moment 1 week, 2,3 can be even more then a month that I feel better again, slowly getting up of this terrible blues. And then love is easy. I feel ok, also not only euphoric, but normal, and my love is working good.
Waiting for the moment of the crash.
The rest of the Lyme disease i would like to speak about too, but first a reaction, so I know somebody is reading it. I would really like, because I feel really lonely in my disease , nobody understands.

Rutger
I dont take any anti depression thingies.

+Lyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1304
   Posted 9/25/2009 1:18 PM (GMT -6)   
For those of you who struggle thru this long post, God bless you. and God bless you if you struggle thru this because it hits close to your home.  Together we will find some answers and be able to help others, just as CajunGrl has.
 
CajunGrl -- I am well past menopause, and any particular symptoms of that were (or seemed to be) over well before my last tick bite.  I WAS on a low dose of anitdepressants and just 1/2 xanax before bed. At that time, I think I was more lazy about cutting them down to nothing than actually ill.  50 mg of amiltriptyline and .25 xanax knocked me out. 
 
 Haven't been my old Miss Energy, tho, for a long time.
 
After the tick bite, my depression and anxiety went out of control. It was one total nightmare!  But I had also just been laid off from a job I thought I would work until retirement.  At the time, I blamed these symptoms on that and the futility of the job search after mortgage fell apart.
 
Looking back, my responses to this situation were not like me.  I have always been stronger.  I was in a LOT of physical pain (still am, but not like back then) and in such a big, dark  hole, it took everything I had in me to climb out of it to find a new job.
 I had to quit the first one I got because of anxiety and the job was stressful. I had to fight for unemployment because I quit, but I maintained I should not have to take xanax to go to work or stay at work, and thankfully my Dr wrote that letter.
 
I did OK awhile after the Dr increased my doses of these meds. Then, almost a year after this, everything came back and bit me again.  After starting Amox, I felt I got a little relief, but only for about a week -- this stuff came back and bit me and gradually worsened. NEVER was it as bad as it was 2 years ago, tho.
 
My Dr (psyche) wants me on 200 mgs Amiltriptyline. I can't handle that much -- I weird out and pass out. I was on 150 mg and decided to trim that down a little more, so I'm on a little over 100 mgs. (I trim the 2nd pill).
 
Now, this crap doesn't happen every day. I have decent days here and there, but not enough. But when I hit the rock bottom I am scared. I don't know what to do. Again, I feel desperate to get out of here, to escape. I mentally BEG for a hosipital SOMEHWERE.  Again, I do not feel in danger of suicide, but the word comes to me against my will and I am scared that one day my mind will  not be my own and I will not be thinking it thru. (the reason counseling on this won't help)  But please do not fear I am in this kind of danger right now, because I'm not. And I do know who to call if this happens and hopefully, I will have enough of my mind to do so.  But it is so scary and I cannot live like this.
 
Again, I know most of you are not Drs, but want to know if any of you believe this is Amox, Candida, Lyme, or possibly herxing. I know you can't know, but was hoping for similar experience or more knowledge than I have.  Or am I, as I fear, just mentally ill?
 
I am home sick today and will be working on trying to get into the Dr I want to see, but there will be a wait.
 
Rutger, You have my deepest sympathies. I do understand and others here understand also. You are not alone.  I don't understand what 'batteries' are? The best I can tell you is to know that the feelings are temporary. The whole mess is temporary, hopefully.
 
YOu can speak about your Lyme all you want on this forum. Even if we can't help you, others here will understand and can advise you on certain things, help you go in certain directions, help you to hang on and hang in there.  They can offer you help.
 
I do not understand the symptom of this disease taking over our minds.  Rutger, since you have a love in your life, you must hang on. You must pray for your girl to be strong enough to hold onto you.
 
It is possible that I experience somewhat the same thing, when you said you are checking her to see if she is beautiful.  I am experiencing hatred for my co-workers. (not my boss who is wonderful). The women I work w/ are gossipy, negative, nasty, rude, insulting, unprofessional 'B's'.  Seriously.  Constantly.  But I often wonder if it is me who is perceiving or feeling them as worse than they really are?  As you said and I said, our minds are not our own. I do not understand this part.
 
I never felt this way when entering a depression before. In the past, all I've ever needed when entering a depression was a low dose anti-depressant (never xanax before), some good sleep and a little time to recoop.
 
I am not my old self at work.  I never was the super hero at work (except for 1986-2002 -- yes, I was a hero)  that some of you have said you once were.  But I was always positive, fun, funny, and competent.  I now work in a different environment.  I used to love this job and now I hate it. I hate it because of the nasty women I work with.
 
Is there any way I/we can determine from whence these feeliings come?
 
Oh -- I have not been great on the detoxing except drinking lots of water. I was doing the apple cidar vinegar but it was beginning to feel that it bothered my stomach, so I laid off.  I am going to try it again to make sure that it was the vinegar and not something else. 
 
Thank you to whoever believes they have any answers and please consider Rutger who seems to be in almost the same place.  Together we have to whip this


Bit 1972: Acute and chronic tonsillitis, UTI, miscarraige, appendicitis, hypoglycemia,  chronic neck pain w/ crushed vertibrae, chronic severe back pain, mitral valve prolapse, depression, resolution?
Bit Mother's Day 2007: Lyme, Babesia microti, hypothyroidism, EBV, HHV6, Parvovirus B19, low adrenals &misc other hormones, depression, anxiety, more of the above.
What don't these nasty bugs cause? 
CD57= 60, so we're in pretty good shape.
 

Post Edited (+Lyme) : 9/26/2009 11:07:38 PM (GMT-6)


Caldonia Sun
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 9/25/2009 4:43 PM (GMT -6)   
You are not alone. The depression/anxiety is so disabling,

I have been sugar free for almost two months, except for the occasional bite of ice cream, so I don't think it's candida. I think it's just the lyme, especially the neuro lyme. It is in my nervous system, so I guess it's what I can expect for a while.

I hope you start to feel better soon.

CajunGrl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4717
   Posted 9/25/2009 7:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Lyme,

My new doctor told me that Bartonella can cause severe depression and anxiety. I think I remember you saying you were tested but it was negative. Do you have any other symptoms of it?
**You never know how STRONG you are....until being STRONG is the ONLY choice you have**

Co-Moderator Lyme Disease Forum


powertool4
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 9/25/2009 11:27 PM (GMT -6)   
editted

Post Edited (powertool4) : 10/12/2010 8:53:56 PM (GMT-6)


CajunGrl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4717
   Posted 9/26/2009 12:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi David,

Welcome to the forum! I'm so glad you decided to register and help Becky out. Thanks for that.
**You never know how STRONG you are....until being STRONG is the ONLY choice you have**

Co-Moderator Lyme Disease Forum


Nicky D
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 361
   Posted 9/26/2009 12:34 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Becky,

Wow- most of both your posts was so familiar it was frightening! I too get periods where it feels like my feelings and thoughts are coming somewhere outside of me, and they hit like a punch in the stomach. And I just realized today, that my emotional/psychological problems from lyme may actually be my worst symptoms- not the physical one. I was looking back, and I in retrospect, I can see a huge change in the way I acted, and what I did right after I got lyme. What I was feeling was NOT normal for me- but I didn't connect the dots at the time.

I am not on Amoxy, and I am 90% certain I don't have a Candida problem (I'm on a super strict diet, anti-fungals, probiotics, and I have seen no yeast on my tongue). BUT- I have bartonella. In fact, I sometimes think I have bart worse than I have Lyme. And, since I've started looking for info on emotional problems, I've had a lot of people tell me bart can cause this- especially the mood swings.

There have been a lot of people posting about emotional problems lately- I think people had just been afraid to talk about them, until they read about other people's experiences, and now everyone is coming out of the woodwork. If you find anything that helps, I think there would be lots of people here who would be interested. Thank you for starting this thread.

Nicky

CajunGrl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4717
   Posted 9/26/2009 1:33 AM (GMT -6)   
I have Bart too and the depression can get pretty bad. I have rage with it too. It hasn't been as bad since I started Tramadol. Something about that med calms my anger problems. Not all the way but enough to where im not going off for no reason. I used to wake up really depressed. It was so weird. And I couldnt control my thoughts either. THAT part scared me the most. I think Bart attacks the brain and that's why we have all of these issues. It can cause really bad neuro issues like the head/hand jerks I have. I am NOT looking forward to starting Levaquin in a few days.
**You never know how STRONG you are....until being STRONG is the ONLY choice you have**

Co-Moderator Lyme Disease Forum


rutger
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 9/26/2009 10:03 AM (GMT -6)   
Hello all,
I would like to explain the vision of my doctor, maybe it helps you all.

(In my last mail I wrote batteries, i ment bacterial infections)

As we all know, doctors make big mistake in the diagnoses and treatment of Lyme. They look for antibody's and forget about the symptomes. We all know that's its hard to treat lyme, that antibiotics are not good working and that the bacteria has a excellent way of transforming and surviving.
My doctor started with the words: you will have lyme for the rest of your life.
but you will control it.
A heavy start, to think about this pains, small infections everywhere, nerve pains, depressions, all of them they will always stay?
According to my doctor, lyme has taken down my complete immune system. Left a lot of toxic behind and made everywhere infections. As well my lever as central nerve system are infected.

To support the story:
My bite is 14 years ago. one week anti biotic, after that ,always negative on blood. Every day more problems. (the famous stories)

Her big shot is to make the immune system strong. That can only happen by a big detox of a few months ,which i do and is painful and terrible.
She did the whole measuring with talks and EAV. I really had my doubt about the reliabilities of that, and still. But what doctor really helped me until now with all this proved blood tests?
I took home drops and pills, both full of herbs. Strong herbs. The Pills also had a magnetic/homeopactic loading to support the treatment.

I took them and within a day a was getting incredebly ill. Pains in my bones and junctions, a very very ill feeling in my body and extremely tired.When I read ONE sentence of a book, i had to cry of tireness. So no placebo. Is was getting down and down and I could not sleep of pain for many days. After 7 days things went slowly better. Now 8 weeks later, still on this first treatment, I can work 6 hours a day, but still have very very bad days.

Conclusion:
I dont know, but this crap is at least out of my body, right? The first part what she promised was right, it all happend. Soon I start on my second part and that has a big emotional workout.
I think the doctor is right in it and that a detox is very important to get rit (how do you write that?) of all these Toxics made by lyme and other bacteria.
Funny how later I heard from my parents that I had no mothermilk and that in the first 3 years of my life I had Toxoplasmose, paratyfus and Salmonella. Enough to detox first before starting with a better immune system.
Later to all of you.
Rutger

rutger
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 9/26/2009 10:12 AM (GMT -6)   
Sorry i forget: (sorry for my English sometimes)
This detox means also a diet for a long time.
My diet now is:
No sugar, raffinated white grans (white bread, white macroni, white rice), and that means NO
No E-numbers (in europe means chemical adds to food)
No SMOKING! and other drugs
No Alcohol
No Peanuts and Cashews (candida)
No PIG meat.
No coffee or black thee, because it's attacking the nerve system.

Very less of:
Gluten and Lactose(milk cheese) , becasue they are hard to digest and I need all energy.
tropical fruit (in my case)

And eat a lot of:
Fresh vegatable, local fruit like apples in my case, haver, guinoa etc. The things we know which a save.
Drink a lot of water , carrot juice, red beets juice. Garlic!

and dont expect you feel good the first half year, it takes soooooo slowly!

+Lyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1304
   Posted 9/26/2009 11:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Hello to ALL of you -- I have just dropped by momentarily and have just seen the wealth of info and educated, caring responses here. Unfortunately, I can't stay today because I am actually cleaning myself up and going to hang out w/ my kids (all grown) because my son is getting ready to go to Hong Kong for a month.

I must do each of you the service of reading every post and propertly responding -- but it will be later. Maybe this evening, maybe not til tomorrow, I don't know.

Just wanted to let you know that I know and appreciate that you were here! THANK YOU and God bless ALL of you who are suffering like this! I will be back!
Bit 1972: Acute and chronic tonsillitis, UTI, miscarraige, appendicitis, hypoglycemia,  chronic neck pain w/ crushed vertibrae, chronic severe back pain, mitral valve prolapse, depression, resolution?
Bit Mother's Day 2007: Lyme, Babesia microti, hypothyroidism, EBV, HHV6, Parvovirus B19, low adrenals &misc other hormones, depression, anxiety, more of the above.
What don't these nasty bugs cause? 
CD57= 60, so we're in pretty good shape.
 


+Lyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1304
   Posted 9/26/2009 11:48 PM (GMT -6)   
Rutger, I am glad that you posted again.  What is your detox?
 
CajunGrl, I only had the basic (titers) tests on Bart, Babesia, Erlichiosis, and Rocky Mt. And these tests were done by a contracted lab, so the Dr did not necessarily expect reliability, but we started there.  Babesia was the only one that came back positive on those tests.
 
From all that I read about the coinfections,  HOW can a Dr and/or a patient diagnose something like Bart, when Bart has mostly the same symtoms as Lyme?  Nicky??
 
Powertool, thank you so much for the link -- that's my next stop. And strange, I have taken various doses of Amox during my life and never experienced a problem and my body always seemed to react to it promptly.  This is the very reason I requested it, instead of Doxy. Of course I am now waaaay above the usual dose. I am now on 3500 mg per day.
 
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh..... so many questions and so many answers! I appreciate every single post.  We sure are learning, aren't we??  We should get to be the LLMDs!
Bit 1972: Acute and chronic tonsillitis, UTI, miscarraige, appendicitis, hypoglycemia,  chronic neck pain w/ crushed vertibrae, chronic severe back pain, mitral valve prolapse, depression, resolution?
Bit Mother's Day 2007: Lyme, Babesia microti, hypothyroidism, EBV, HHV6, Parvovirus B19, low adrenals &misc other hormones, depression, anxiety, more of the above.
What don't these nasty bugs cause? 
CD57= 60, so we're in pretty good shape.
 


Nicky D
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 361
   Posted 9/27/2009 12:54 AM (GMT -6)   
+Lyme- although bart has a lot of the same symptoms as lyme, there are certain things that are more common with bart. Those would be 1st the red scratch-like rash, shin or foot pain, digestive problems, and mood problems. Also- my LLMD told me that the little muscle twitches/jumps are a sign of bart. So I think they look at the severity and combination of symptoms, and try to decide.
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