What's the low down on mepron and artemisia?

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georgiagirl
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   Posted 11/12/2009 8:55 PM (GMT -6)   
I will be starting these soon along with bactrim for possible babesia. I am alergic to zithromax so can't add that. I'm really nervous about starting these. What can I expect? Can bactrim take the place of zith.?
I am also starting quite a few other meds. that I want opinions on, I will post more later.
Thanks GG :-)

Willowrose
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   Posted 11/12/2009 9:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi georgiagirl,

I've been taking zithromycin, artemisinin, and mepron for two months now and so far haven't had any adverse effects that I can identify. (Always a challenge to sort those out from the many symptoms of lyme, babesia, and bartonella). Artemisinin doesn't taste good so I always make sure I have lots of water and I don't put a capsule in my mouth till it' full of water so the taste doesn't linger. Are you taking the artemisinin every day, or only some days of the week? I take it three days a week, then take four days off. The mepron is really ugly - looks like thick yellow paint - but it doesn't, in my opinion, taste terrible. It's not anything you'd elect to eat if you had a choice, but it isn't horrible. I'm not taking bactrim at this time, but I've taken it in the past and didn't have any ill effects from it. I don't know how it compares to zithromycin. Good luck with your treatment.

Rose
I have Lyme; it doesn't have me.


blessings723
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   Posted 11/13/2009 12:09 AM (GMT -6)   
Rose, where did you get your artemisinin? Thanks!
I refuse to stay sick! Period. 
 
 


Willowrose
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   Posted 11/13/2009 11:43 AM (GMT -6)   
Finding,

My LLMD sells it. He told me it is not the kind of thing you would find in most health food stores. However, in talking to the naturopath I also see, I found out that she sells it too. Do you have access to an alternative health care practitioner in your area? I haven't tried looking for it online, but that's another thought.

Rose
I have Lyme; it doesn't have me.


achievinggrace
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   Posted 11/13/2009 2:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Finding,

I've been on Artemesinin for more than a year and am now taking it three weeks on and one week off. It's really helped but the on and off makes for a rough ride. I've also been on Clarythromyacin for nine months and Mepron for five months. Taking probiotics in the middle of the day and at night and watching what I eat has kept yeast under control. Mostly I've learned to listen to my body -- this is a lot of chemistry to process; I eat tons of vegetables and keep hydrated. My LLMD gave this source for reasonably-priced Artemesinin 714 841 5349. Good luck!

georgiagirl
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   Posted 11/13/2009 8:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, what dose of mepron and artemisia are you all on. I will start 750 mg of mepron and 750 mg of artemisia to start with. What would be considered a normal dose for babesia? How much artemisia should I take? My LLMD said that I could work up to 8 artemisia a day. Has anyone else here taken that much?

Cmacaran
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Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 11/13/2009 9:19 PM (GMT -6)   
I have tried three different types of artimisin, They were each recommended by a health care practitioner and I think they are each high quality.  you can buy each on line.  They are not to be used together as they are all the same basic ingredient.  Pick one or rotate them like I do as I develop sensitivity (yes leaking gut).
 
Dr. Zhang - Artemisiae  is 400 mg (one tablet) three times per day (this is good quality but the two other ingredients he adds to the capsule upset my stomach).  this is considered by many as the best capsule for treatment.
 
Artecin by Thorne - 500 mg (one tablet) three times per day (also good quality but with no other herbs just artimisin but after a while (2 months) it upset my stomach as well so I switched to the third one and then rotate back again)
 
Artemisinin by ArteMin 100 - the capsules are 100 mg each, you can do as little as 2 three times a day or as much as 4 three times per day (from what I read, I don't feel sure of the dosage for this one, I have heard different levels)
 
FYI Artemisinin (again from what I read) does not last in your bloodstream more than an hour.  We metabolize it quickly.  Therefore, the idea is to take three doses a day at effective levels. If you were to take 100 mg tables each hour you would be wasting your time as it will never get at a theraputic level in your blood.  Of course if you need to start out slow to find your threshold, which I always do, you can start as 100 mg,  but the idea is take it three times a day.  there is no build up in your blood, it is in and out of your body in an hour.  Don't be suprised by a bad taste for that hour in your mouth, nothing horrible.
 
To be effective some practicioners recommend you take vitamin A and iron with artemisinin to help it work, artimisinin uses our blood iron as part of its attack on the babesia.  Also, artemisinin produces free radicals, therefore it is strongly recommended that you take some form of antioxidants to protect your cells when taking artemisinin.  some good antioxidants are vitamin A, C or E (there are basically tons of antinoxidants to chose from if you do a bit of research, but ACE are the most often referenced).  If you find you are experiencing a new type of ear pain (this is rare) stop the artimisinin and take antioxidants.  There should be no ear pain if you are taking the right levels of antioxidants.
 
Again this is all stuff I have read over the years.  I am not a Dr.
 
 

Cmacaran
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Total Posts : 105
   Posted 11/13/2009 9:20 PM (GMT -6)   
One more thing, I read not to take Co Q 10 with Mepron as it reduces the effectiveness.

georgiagirl
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   Posted 11/13/2009 9:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Cmacaran, I ordered 750 mg artemisia caps. Should I not start that much at one time? Would that be to much? I can't break them in half. I'm really anxious about this........

Cmacaran
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   Posted 11/13/2009 10:29 PM (GMT -6)   
I like to start slow but I am very sensitive. Everyone is different. I don't know what brand you are taking so the dosage might be different, but you might want to follow the instructions and see how you do. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Willowrose
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   Posted 11/13/2009 11:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Cmacaran,

I am glad I read your post. I had not heard that taking iron and vitamin A with artemisinin would help with absorption. I also hadn't heard about possible side effects. I am having a terrible time with a loud hissing and pain in my ears, and sinus pressure. I take artemisinin by AllergyResearchGroup (200 mg caps - 3 caps twice daily for 3 days, then 4 days off) and a recent test revealed that I have a high level of free radicals in my system. Now I am wondering if these things are associated. Although I take vitamins A, C, and E daily (A and E in a multivitamin, C both in a multivitamin and separately), I do not know at what levels I need to take them to combat free radicals. I also take azithromycin 250 mg twice a day, and mepron 750 mg twice a day for three weeks, then one week off. Do you have further details, or ideas of where I could research to find out more?

Rose
I have Lyme; it doesn't have me.


Cmacaran
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Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 11/13/2009 11:46 PM (GMT -6)   
artemisinin is a free radical when it is metabolized in our blood stream, Dr. Schaller has a wonderful section on artemisinin in his bood "Babesia". His book has the most info on artemisinin in one place I have ever found.

It is not a suprise you have high levels of free radicals in your system, you are essentially taking a free radical dose three times a day. If the ear pain started only after you started the artimisinin than I would suspect cause and effect. Stop the artemisinin, take anti oxidants and see if it goes away. If you had the same ear pain before the artimisinin than it is probably the lyme, unless it changed in character. I have had Lyme ear pain but never artemisinin caused ear pain.

My best guess is that you are not taking nearly enough anti-oxidants, a multivitam level of A and E is definately too low to have any real impact on your anti-oxidant need when you are on artimisinin. I am not sure how much C you are taking but I would increase it (unless you are getting acid stomach or diarhae from the C. I take 500 C with every meal when I am being good with my vitamins. Dr. Weil recommends you take it with each meal, he loves it. I do too. But I always feel you need diversity as well.

You can find tons of anti-oxidants on line at any vitamin shop. There are even special mixtures of antioxidants. I don't think the type you use matters much, pick something you are comfortable taking, can take in large quantities (water soluable like C). I would personally come at it from three directions, Green tea if you can tolerate tea or some other antioxidant drink you might like (one of my docs recommended Ningxia Red) , anti-oxidant vitamins there are many to choce from at robust dosages and anti-oxidant foods like beans and blueberries (or other berries). The drinks seem to be very popular now and everyone is drinking green tea.

blessings723
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Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 289
   Posted 11/14/2009 12:17 AM (GMT -6)   
thanks everyone for sources on artemesia!
I refuse to stay sick! Period. 
 
 


Willowrose
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   Posted 11/14/2009 1:47 AM (GMT -6)   
Cmacaran,

Thank you very much for all of the information. I did not have the ear ringing, pain and pressure before I started the artemisinin, but if it could also be caused by Lyme it could be either one I suppose. When you had the Lyme ear pain, did you have hissing also? The hissing in my ears is so bad I am now hearing impaired. No matter what the origin of my ear pain is, it sounds like I need to take more antioxidants to address the free radicals in my system. You've given me lots of ideas for ways to approach this. Much appreciated.

I'll pick up Dr. Schaller's book, and look to see what Dr. Weil has written as well.

Rose
I have Lyme; it doesn't have me.


achievinggrace
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   Posted 11/14/2009 6:04 AM (GMT -6)   
I take Nutricology's Artemisinin which are 200mg per capsule. I started taking one per day, after a couple months moved up to one twice a day and a year later now take two twice a day for three weeks and stop for a week. Starting slowly was the best for me as it really worked -- a high dose at first would have made for a pretty violent herx reaction. Oh, and Mepron at 750mg twice a day and Biaxin 500mg twice a day.

Willowrose
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Date Joined Oct 2009
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   Posted 11/14/2009 11:48 AM (GMT -6)   
achievinggrace,

I'm working through the timetable on your post - being new at this and having just started on babesia treatment, I'm curious. My LLMD set up the expectation that I'd be taking this stuff for 4-6 months, but everything I read on here leads me to believe it is going to take a lot longer than that to rid myself of babesia. Have you been treating babesia for a year?

Rose
I have Lyme; it doesn't have me.


achievinggrace
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Date Joined Nov 2009
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   Posted 11/14/2009 2:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Rose,
I've showed symptoms of Babesia, but never tested positive for it. I was actually first infected with Lyme in 1984, treated in the early nineties, but only for two weeks -- the dr didn't believe I had Lyme. I was infected again with Lyme and Ehrlichia in 2007. I began treatment 18 months ago and am making steady progress. I'm not sure how long it will take to chase down all the bacteria but as long as I'm getting better, I'm willing to work on it. If you didn't go that long untreated then your treatment will be shorter. And your recovery faster!
-Grace

Willowrose
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Date Joined Oct 2009
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   Posted 11/14/2009 2:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the info. I went at least that long with no treatment, and I have Lyme, bartonella and babesia. If I understand correctly, we're treating the babesia first, then the bartonella, and won't get to the Lyme till after that. That's why I asked about a timetable. If it will take a year plus to conquer the first one, and who knows how long for the second, it sounds as if it will be a long time before I will be focusing on the Lyme. I am glad to hear you are making steady progress. That's what counts.

Rose
I have Lyme; it doesn't have me.


Cmacaran
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Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 11/14/2009 6:14 PM (GMT -6)   
I have heard that a successful babesia treatment takes 5 months because the life span of a red blood cell is 120 days (babesia is a protazoa living in your red blood cells, I saw mine in a live blood microscope, very upsetting). It is very common to still be sick after 5 months at which time you need to re-evaluate your treatment program, and run the next treatment program for another 5 months and see if the new one works.

Willowrose
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Date Joined Oct 2009
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   Posted 11/14/2009 6:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Okay, that aligns with what my doctor told me. I do not think I want to see it in a microscope - that was a brave thing for you to do. The LLMD told me the test for babesia showed its RNA in my cells. If I test negative for that after 6 months of treatment, but I am still sick would that mean I still have it or not? Since I also have 2 strains of bartonella and Lyme, I would expect that ridding myself of babesia would not eradicate my symptoms anyway. What do you think?

Rose
I have Lyme; it doesn't have me.


georgiagirl
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Date Joined Oct 2007
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   Posted 11/21/2009 3:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Willowrose, I'm not sure what to think. I guess we just have to keep trying different treatments until something works. I still haven't started the artemisia or anything else for that matter. Since I had such a bad experience with the zoloft i'm scared to start anything. I know I need to just get over it and move forward with treatment.

Willowrose
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Date Joined Oct 2009
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   Posted 11/21/2009 7:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Were you taking zoloft for Lyme symptoms? What happened to you? I try to keep track of all the meds people say they are taking, but it's getting very confusing. I'm not even reading bartonella threads right now, just concentrating on babesia. Babesia meds I see on here are artemisinin, azithromycin, mepron (that's what I take now) - also biaxin and flagyl?? Do the antifungals (diflucan, etc) help eradicate Lyme or coinfections, or are they just for fungi? Is rifampin for something else? I need to make a spreadsheet.

Rose
I have Lyme; it doesn't have me.


JELAINEP
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   Posted 11/22/2009 6:05 AM (GMT -6)   
mmmmmmm MEPRON, both yummy AND yellow!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.  - Margaret Meade
10/01- Igenex and CDC LD positive Rx's: Wellbutrin 300, Paxil 60, Xanax 5, Acidophilus, Flagyl, Hydrocodone, Glutiathione injections, Vitamin B compound, Invanz IV, LD theme song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgHioCC3yCo&feature=related
 


georgiagirl
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   Posted 11/23/2009 9:46 AM (GMT -6)   
willowrose, I was trying zoloft for pain. I felt like I overdosed on speed! I had a horrible headache, jitters, huge pupils, dry mouth. As for your other questions, I think some LLMDS use diflucan for a cyst buster and I took rifampin for possible bartonella. It is all so confusing I know. I can barely keep up with what i'm taking! lol
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