LLMD's Are they saying its best to get vaccinated or not?

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tropicalsun
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Date Joined Jul 2006
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   Posted 11/26/2009 9:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Just wondering for those going to LLMD's, whether they are saying you should get vaccinated, because if you don't you will most likely get stronger symptoms, or are they saying you should not get vaccinated?  My daughter's LLMD said she should, but just want to see what others are saying, before deciding to do it or not. Thanks 

CajunGrl
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Date Joined Mar 2009
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   Posted 11/26/2009 9:48 PM (GMT -6)   
My LLMD said that if I felt good enough, that I could get the flu shot...meaning, if I wasn't running fever, etc.

I've been sick with Lyme symptoms so I haven't been able to get out this year to get it.

I am not getting the H1N1 vaccine.
**You never know how STRONG you are....until being STRONG is the ONLY choice you have**

lymediseasethroughmyeyes.blogspot.com/

Co-Moderator Lyme Disease Forum


tropicalsun
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 407
   Posted 11/26/2009 10:02 PM (GMT -6)   
My daughter has fever everyday now for  2 years finally tested postitive for Brucella which I figured she had. Still positive for Bart, now found out positive for EBV, still thought to have Lyme even though last test negative, now negative for Babs and Typhoid Fever, and most likely mycoplasma is involved(since 2005).  So I'm a little nervous about her having any vaccine, and it's the best thing for her. I just thought since she has so many things going on it wasn't a good idea, but the dr. said the opposite, that she should because she she would have stronger symptoms if she were to get it. I was curious to she if other LLmd's were saying something along those lines too.

bablymers
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Date Joined Oct 2006
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   Posted 11/27/2009 12:58 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi everyone,

I think vaccines of any type are controversial, so it's hard to know what is the right thing to do. We were not comfortable getting the flu vaccine and it turned out that our lyme docs told us not to. The main reasons were: 1) they did not think we were well enough to "take the hit"---that our bodies are not able to tolerate the "jolt" from the vaccine and the immune response and all the side effects 2) there are ingredients in the vaccines that would not be good for us and could cause us more harm 3) we are allergic to some of the ingredients in them. It's a scary world now---not knowing what's worse----the disease or the "cure". I have read/heard many opinions on both sides of the vaccine issue. I guess it's another decision we must all make for ourselves and hope we've made the right one.

Best wishes to all, bablymers mom

hope_29
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Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 90
   Posted 11/27/2009 6:12 AM (GMT -6)   
tropicalsun
Could you tell me what kind of treatment does your daughter get for Brucella?
thanks
have lyme since 2004


achievinggrace
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Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 3266
   Posted 11/27/2009 4:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Back to the original question... My LLMD said it didn't really matter, I could choose to get the flu shots or not.

Hol1979
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Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 566
   Posted 11/27/2009 8:07 PM (GMT -6)   
I didn't get the vax but I did get H1N1 flu. It wasn't too fun but I survived. I really do recommend getting Tamiflu if you can get it from your doctor. I have Lyme and I had a much less severe case of H1N1 than my husband, who does not have Lyme but did not get Tamiflu. He was coughing longer than me, had a fever longer than me, and throwing up whereas I only lost my appetite for a little while.
We will get by....We will survive -The Dead
Lyme Disease: Infected July 2005
Diagnosed June 2006,  In Remission October 2006
Gave birth July 2007, Sufferred from effects of abx
Gave birth May 2009, Reinfected with Lyme Fall 2009
 


Razzle
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Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4399
   Posted 11/28/2009 4:33 AM (GMT -6)   
Those with compromised immune systems should not get live vaccines (such as the nasal flu vaccine); "killed" vaccines (i.e., a flu shot) are ok if the doctor approves. My doctor, however, told me I have too many reasons not to get vaccines. Also I find I am able to avoid catching the flu by washing my hands frequently, taking a weekly dose of Oscillococcinum (Homeopathic remedy), and trying to stay away from anyone who is sick.

Take care,
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Chronic Bartonella (clinical dx only), Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, chronic Lymphopenia, etc.; G-Tube; Currently trying to wean off TPN.
Meds:  Pulmicort, IV Ceftazidime, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Domperidone, Colloidal Silver (used topically), probiotics, Milk Thistle, Ailanthus, homeopathy.


JELAINEP
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Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2017
   Posted 11/28/2009 7:10 AM (GMT -6)   
I think the nose spray H1N1 has live organisms in it...... I'm not putting another infection (either dead or alive) into my body.....  And if I was going to, it would be botulism (botox) between my eyebrows! shocked skull skull smhair rolleyes smhair skull shocked
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.  - Margaret Meade
10/01- Igenex and CDC LD positive Rx's: Wellbutrin 300, Paxil 60, Xanax 5, Acidophilus, Flagyl, Hydrocodone, Glutiathione injections, Vitamin B compound, Invanz IV, LD theme song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgHioCC3yCo&feature=related
 


mcjane
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 285
   Posted 11/28/2009 11:58 AM (GMT -6)   
If the vaccine is live you can get what your being vaccinated for, might be a mild case, might not.

As for killed vaccine you cannot get what your being vaccinated for.

I have no idea why live vaccinations are given even though they usually produce life long immunity. Polio is a good example there is one of each.

The injectable is killed the oral is live. Babies are usually given oral or both in four different doses and you can get polio from your baby by changing their diaper because the virus multiplies in the gut.
Very rare, but it happens.

Go figure.

Jane
The greatness of a nation is judged by the way it treats its animals.
 
Mahatma Gandhi 


Nicky D
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Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 361
   Posted 11/28/2009 12:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi,

Although there are no treating LLMD's in Canada, there is one who was forced to retire, and is still very vocal. He has said that he thinks everyone should get vaccinated- he doesn't think we are at any more of a risk for side-effects, and doesn't think the risk of side-effects is very high for anyone. He also says that by getting vaccinated, we slow the spread of the flu.

I haven't asked my treating LLMD though.

JennInPA
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 228
   Posted 11/28/2009 12:43 PM (GMT -6)   
LOL @ Jelainep! I am right there with ya!
“You must be the change you wish to see in the world.” -Gandhi

http://lymeactually.blogspot.com/


Sunshine20090909
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 29
   Posted 11/28/2009 8:06 PM (GMT -6)   
tropicalsun said...
My daughter has fever everyday now for  2 years finally tested postitive for Brucella which I figured she had. Still positive for Bart, now found out positive for EBV, still thought to have Lyme even though last test negative, now negative for Babs and Typhoid Fever, and most likely mycoplasma is involved(since 2005). 
 
Do you have any idea how she contracted the Brucella?  Also, can you advise as to what lab tested.  I read that it can take up to 6 weeks to have a test completed for that disease.
 
I also read that you should not have any antibodies to brucella unless you either contracted it at one point or carry the disease currently.  The one lab stated it had to have a high enough titre to be considred a positive, which goes against what I had read.
 
I would like your opinion, if you don't mind. 
 
Also, as far as flu vaccination, I have my own opinion. I am avoiding it.  The most damages seems to be to the immune system in which the lungs are severely affected (in the off chance that it goes further).  In which case the ill person is prescribed abx.  The worse part is that the patient doesn't get the abx soon enough or for a long enough period of time in a high enough dose.
 
Just my opinion.

CajunGrl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4717
   Posted 11/28/2009 8:40 PM (GMT -6)   
I find it interesting that the flu vaccine is used to boost the immune system in AIDS patients.
**You never know how STRONG you are....until being STRONG is the ONLY choice you have**

lymediseasethroughmyeyes.blogspot.com/

Co-Moderator Lyme Disease Forum


Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4399
   Posted 11/28/2009 11:19 PM (GMT -6)   
Be aware that the flu vaccine does contain mercury as a preservative...so those of you concerned about heavy metal toxicity might want to discuss this with your doctors...
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Chronic Bartonella (clinical dx only), Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, chronic Lymphopenia, etc.; G-Tube; Currently trying to wean off TPN.
Meds:  Pulmicort, IV Ceftazidime, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Domperidone, Colloidal Silver (used topically), probiotics, Milk Thistle, Ailanthus, homeopathy.


needshelp
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 11/29/2009 6:09 PM (GMT -6)   
I get the sense that most folks in the Lyme world are advising against the flu vaccines. I'm not going to get them because of my immune system. However, (being a scientist) I'm disappointed that the media and some misinformed individuals are trying to scare the public about the safety of vaccines. A VAST majority of healthy individuals will experience no problems from vaccines (Hepatitis, Flu, etc.) and they are very important to protect the public from major outbreaks of serious illnesses.

JennInPA
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 228
   Posted 11/29/2009 6:51 PM (GMT -6)   
This is a touchy subject, but I think saying "misinformed individuals are scaring the public" is a false statement.

I think there are 2 sides of course and each person has to make the right choice for them and their family and live with that choice. I did lots of research and spoke to alot of people who have done over 15 years worth of research on vaccinations. I choose not to vaccinate my toddler, but I would never judge someone else that chooses to vaccinate theirs.

I have met moms who have children, less than 1 yr old who are covered in eczema and itch so severely that they cause their scalp, arms, face, to bleed and their moms have to cover their hands in socks. The eczema showed up only after the vaccinations. I know 2 teenage girls who got the cervical cancer vaccination and can no longer walk or talk. I know another girl who got it and is fine. When things like that hit close to home, it's hard to ignore it.

I think it effects different people in different ways which is why we all have to make our own choice... and live with it.
“You must be the change you wish to see in the world.” -Gandhi

http://lymeactually.blogspot.com/


needshelp
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 11/30/2009 2:48 AM (GMT -6)   
Jenn,

I respectfully disagree. Perhaps, instead of saying 'misleading' I should have said 'don't present both sides of the argument'. However, I'm glad that you have researched the subject and come to your own conclusions (many folks don't take the time to do so).

Best regards,
Brad

tropicalsun
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 407
   Posted 12/1/2009 11:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks everyone for your input.
 
Hope_29  &  Sunshine 20090909
 
I will give you some info on Brucella and if you have more questions just ask I will try to answer them (I don't have all my info in front of me right now)
 
My daughter will be starting the treatment of  Doxy 100mg + Rifampin 300mg twice daily   (to get at Bart and lyme too) She is 12 yrs old.
 
      Children under 8 yrs usually are given       Bactrim/Septra + Rifampin
 
Optimal treatment is -- Combination therapy: Doxy + Streptomycin (or gentamincin)--these are intramuscular injections
           or                       Triple therapy           : Doxy + Streptomycin + Rifampin
                                                                        Doxy + Bactrim/septra + Rifampin
 
Using other antibiotics and not treating long enough has a high relapse rate.
 
Well, we live on a farm and have horses, dogs, cats and she was always outdoors or with them. (Started to notice symptoms of whole mess 2005)
I am not totally sure how she got it but it can also be transferred by ticks (brucella occurs in wild animals too),  or actual animals although not much is said about it. Things you read about it try and make it sound like you only get it from drinking unpasteurized milk and cheese etc. and its rare and only in 3rd World countries..  That is why I think LLMD's need to get up to speed with it, because I think a lot more people with Lyme and coinfections have it and don't know and it's never checked.  Probably a factor why not getting better after a certain point.
Her fever also is usually highest in the morning. (reverse pattern)
 
I had her tested 3 times: 1st & 3rd-- Quest Labs: Brucella IgM IgG  (Can do Febrile Reactions Panel which includes Brucella, if checking other things that cause fever
                                                                                                                                          also incudes Weil- Felix Test which checks for Proteus OX19, OX2, OK
                                                                                                                                          which if positive can be an indicator to support Brucella even
                                                                                                                                          though negative but low titer present, because only positive with
                                                                                                                                          Rickettsial Diseases, Brucella, Salmonella(Typhoid Fever),Proteus 
                                                                                                                                          Vugaris (first time did panel and third just Brucella and Weil-
                                                                                                                                           Felix)
 
She was showing up on Proteus OX19 and OX2  , Low titer on Brucella IgM & IgG  and positive on Salmonella (typhoid Fever)
 
2nd Time -- Clongen Lab: Brucella PCR         (came out negative)
3rd Time -- Quest IgM, IgG  Positive both Brucella IgM & IgG, and Proteus Ox2 , Salmonella(typhoid Fever) all Negative
If cultures are done they have to be left for many weeks, that is probably the test you were told takes 6 wks. 
 
I think Fry labs also tests for Brucella (they had a Febrile Panel) and MDL I think has a PCR
 
I think you are  right about that you should not have antibodies for it unless you contracted it at one point or are carrying the disease (chronic). Known to relapse.  Just as complicated as everything else.  I totally agree, what is practiced about having to have a high enough titer to be considered positive, goes against what you read about it.  That you can't base it on that! Doctor have forgotten how to piece all the clues and info together figure things out.
Like if having a fever every day that undulates for years isn't a big enough clue.  I was my idea to do the tests.
Hope this helps.
 
 

CajunGrl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4717
   Posted 12/1/2009 11:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Tropical,

Can you fix your post please. I'm not sure why it posted like that but it's broken up and stretching all of the posts.

Thanks hun.
**You never know how STRONG you are....until being STRONG is the ONLY choice you have**

lymediseasethroughmyeyes.blogspot.com/

Co-Moderator Lyme Disease Forum


Kristiana
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 22
   Posted 12/2/2009 12:15 AM (GMT -6)   
My LLMD said Absolutely NOT ! He said you are immune compromised and you do not want your body to have to fight off anything else. I had no idea. Also when we went to see my mom's oncologist (she had breast cancer), her doc said that even HE could not get the spray mist because he was treating so many patients with suppressed immune systems and could not risk passing it on to them.
So, I guess it's a no for me.

CajunGrl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4717
   Posted 12/2/2009 12:29 AM (GMT -6)   
I'll be getting my seasonal flu shot tomorrow. I've gotten it when my CD57 was at it's lowest. It was 23 at the time and I never got the flu. That's just me though. We all have to make our own decisions and we all know our own bodies.

I think for me, I'm more at risk getting the flu, especially around the holidays if I don't get the shot.
**You never know how STRONG you are....until being STRONG is the ONLY choice you have**

lymediseasethroughmyeyes.blogspot.com/

Co-Moderator Lyme Disease Forum


Sunshine20090909
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 29
   Posted 12/2/2009 8:04 AM (GMT -6)   
Tropical Sun,

Thank you very much for your detailed post! I have done as much research on this as I could in the recent past and found that this disease (Brucella) grows in natural and UV light. It is one of about 20 different bacteria which do grow in the light.

According to what I read about the light exciting the growth explained why it was so difficult for cattle to get healthy. It is the actual blue light in natural light which excites the growth.

I read somewhere that one doctor treats lyme patients by putting them into darkness, I wonder how much of those lyme patients carry the brucella bacteria.


The US isn't testing much for brucella, if we don't test, we don't have any positive results and thus the disease is "Rare".


Also, brucellosis can be a chronic disease, unlike Lyme disease.

Also, when I searched I could not find a uniform standard treatment, what you provided sounds liks a good treatment.

I hope this works quickly for you and your daughter!

Best wishes.

Sunshine
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc1YYJrq0qg

Post Edited (Sunshine20090909) : 12/2/2009 8:41:17 AM (GMT-7)


Sunshine20090909
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 29
   Posted 12/2/2009 5:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Tropical Sun,
 
I found this today...
 
 
While I had low titres to Brucella, I am sure Rifampin was very instrumental in my improvement.  The document listed above explains that Aminoglycosides (Streptomycin is one) do not completely kill the intracellular organisms. 
 
I don't always believe what I read - even if it is a document with quality references, but I do always consider what is written.
 
I find no mention, as of yet, regarding Pencillin G for Brucellosis.  I do find in several articles the mention of other drugs being used in place of Penicilin G, either for allergic reactions or just as a duplicate type drug.
 
This, to me, is probably done to try to keep people from using penicllin too often, as Penicillin G is supposedly considered the "Gold Standard" in treatment.
 
Personally, if I had a child ill with brucellosis and I had the chance to help the child I would consider requesting Penicilin G (in addition to the Rifampin and Doxy or instead of the Doxy) if my research did not give me better information on a possible solution.
 
I found relief from the Doxy, as it eased the throbbing in my spine.  Too bad it didn't make me better!  I took it for a long time on and off, mostly on - 200 -400mg/day at times.  I kept getting worse, of course I was in a lot of laser directed light in the `905 nm range (which is a growth factor for Brucella according to Hughes Medical and others).
 
Rifampin helped with brain function, but even with Doxy, did not kill the bacteria.  The odd thing that helped, without rx, was Grapefruit Seed Extract.  At times taking many tablets a day.  I don't know what it is about them.  Some say that they have a lot of antibiotic properites, some say it is the low PH level that kills so many bacteria.
 
I found that raising my PH helped more than lowering it.  If you want any further information you can send me a direct e-mail so I don't junk up the Lyme site with Brucella info.
 
BTW, I don't sell anything - I am a victim of illness with only experience to share.
 
 
I also realize this is a Lyme forum, however, since we all lack so much information regarding Lyme and it's co -in fections, I think that Lymies should keep an open mind regarding closely related        devil        zoonotic diseases which are blood borne in warm blooded animals.
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