Calling for Opinions on Herxing

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need some zs
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 143
   Posted 3/6/2010 7:34 AM (GMT -6)   
I recently read this:

A Herxheimer reaction (herx) is a sign of a
poor treatment plan and is unnecessary. A
herx greatly increases the toxic load on the
body; at its worst it can kill an illness-
weakened patient outright. A herx can
temporarily or permanently disable the body,
mind, and spirit.


I've always thought that a herx reaction, while horrible, was a good thing and meant treatment is working. I would like to hear others' thoughts on this.

GWB
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 570
   Posted 3/6/2010 10:28 AM (GMT -6)   
"I've always thought that a herx reaction, while horrible, was a good thing and meant treatment is working. I would like to hear others' thoughts on this."


That's what we've always been told, isn't it? But as many of you know, I was treated by the doctor who you are quoting, Dr. Jernigan. It's opposite of what we've been led to believe, but I was on abx for five years and was sure I wasn't going to be alive much longer at the rate I was going. After two weeks in his office getting treatment (this past January) and two months on his protocol, I'm a whole new person!

Thanks to Deejavu for telling me about him, who by the way, also got better on his protocol. She never went to his office but she bought his book, "Beating Lyme Disease" (second edition) http://www.hansacenter.com/beating_lyme_disease.php and got completely better from following his protocol in the book.

Yeah, it's hard to believe you don't have to herx hard to get well, but I'm shocking proof that it's true. My herxes have been very mild and I've only had about three of four days when I wasn't feeling very well since I've been on the protocol. Considering I've been sick with this disease for fifteen years, I'd say that's pretty good!

Go to his website to learn more about his treatment protocol if you'd like http://www.hansacenter.com/index.php

Here's a great blog that Dr. Jernigan wrote:

http://beatinglymedisease.blogspot.com/

I can't believe more people aren't using this protocol to get better. It's saved my life and made a new person out of me. If you knew how horribly sick I was prior to treatment you'd be amazed. It was hard for me to go to Dr. Jernigan because of what I consider "unorthodox" testing methods. He uses Bio-Resonance Scanning (BRS) which I really didn't believe in http://www.hansacenter.com/brs.php. But let me tell you, after fifteen years of living with this disease, and five years of getting worse on abx, I'm haven't felt this great in years! I'm a believer now. This BRS testing is so far advanced over any testing that you can get done almost anywhere--and it's amazingly accurate.

Sometimes it's hard for us to change our way of thinking about this disease, it was for me, but if you look at all of the lyme forums (I belong to three of them) you read story after story of people taking abx for years and still as sick as ever. Something's wrong with that.

Anyway, didn't mean to come across as a promoter for Dr. Jernigan, but if you're sick and tired of being sick with this disease, consider going on his two week protocol at the Hansa Center. They've got a special price going right now, not sure how much longer it's going to last but you can get the information off of his website.

By the way, if you do decide to see him, he has a great associate doctor working with him in his office, but when you call, insist that you get your primary treatment from Dr. Jernigan. He's an expert at treating this disease with powerful homeopathic and herbal remedies, many that he himself has invented http://www.jernigannutraceuticals.com/.

Many LLMD's and LLND's use his products for their patients. The therapies he uses in his office also very effective. You can read about them here: http://www.hansacenter.com/therapies.php

If you have any questions about my treatment, or the Hansa Center, feel free to post them here or email me. I'm sure Deejavu won't mind you asking her about it too because that's how she got well also.

Gary

Post Edited (GWB) : 3/6/2010 10:27:19 AM (GMT-7)


merrygirl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 702
   Posted 3/6/2010 2:10 PM (GMT -6)   
I personally think people do not herx
as often as they think they do
Chronic Lyme Disease,Fibromyalgia, CFS, PCOS, sleep apnea, hypothyroidism, type 2 diabetes, bulging discs to name a few


GWB
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 570
   Posted 3/6/2010 2:32 PM (GMT -6)   
merrygirl said...
I personally think people do not herx
as often as they think they do


I agree to an extent. I think they're often suffering from the side effects of the abx more than they are experiencing a herx. Some of the side effects of the many abx we take are really hard on the body, not to mention, potentially harmful. I know that was true for me. Abx were horrible for my stomach and some of the side effects were unbearable.

Many people think they're herxing when in fact, they're having a bad reaction to the abx. That's why it's important to read about the potential side effects to every medicine you take so that you can know if it's a herx or simply a bad reaction (side effect) to the meds.

On the other hand, when you have a genuine herx the toxins (endotoxins) that are released when large amounts of pathogens are being killed off, and the body does not eliminate the toxins quickly enough, that can be very hard on the body and, in my opinion, can't be healthy.

Gary

Caldonia Sun
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 3/6/2010 2:45 PM (GMT -6)   
A herx can temporarily or permanently disable the body, mind, and spirit.

I agree with this. When I first began treatment with abx, the herxes were almost psychotic in nature and most definitely disabling. The ones I have experienced with natural products are much more gentle and I feel so much better overall. I recently had a bad reaction to bactrim and really, I don't think anything lyme did was as bad as what that abx did. Nasty stuff!

I just started the Jernigan protocol last week. So far, so good.

Post Edited (Caldonia Sun) : 3/6/2010 1:50:20 PM (GMT-7)


GWB
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 570
   Posted 3/6/2010 2:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Caldonia Sun, glad to hear you started the Jernigan protocol. Are you going to the Hansa Center or following the protocol in the book, "Beating Lyme Disease"?

Please keep us posted on your progress.

Praying it goes well with you and you beat this stinkin disease! :-)

Gary

Caldonia Sun
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 3/6/2010 4:13 PM (GMT -6)   
No, I'm not going to the center or have the book. I'm just following the protocol you can download from their website. I've done Buhner's herbs for several months and now want to try this.

Have to say, Gary, your testimony of how it has helped you has been a great encouragement. I'm so glad to hear that you are still improving.

GWB
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 570
   Posted 3/6/2010 4:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Funny thing is, Deejavu, who's a member here is the one who encouraged me to get on this protocol. She did it from reading the book and following to the protocol too without going the Hansa Center. If she can do it, you can too!

Gary

CajunGrl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4717
   Posted 3/6/2010 6:33 PM (GMT -6)   
In my opinion, I don't think we have to herx either. I think that what we were told was that if we do herx, then that meant that the abx were working and killing off the bacteria...not necessarily saying we "have" to herx. See what I mean? Herxing is horrible and there were times that I too thought I was dying.
**You never know how STRONG you are....until being STRONG is the ONLY choice you have**

lymediseasethroughmyeyes.blogspot.com/

Co-Moderator Lyme Disease Forum


Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4399
   Posted 3/6/2010 8:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Herxes from herbs and other "natural" treatments can be just as bad as those from abx. I tried Buhner's protocol in 2008, and had a severe reaction to it and am still dealing with the consequences of that reaction even now. Basically, the japanese knotweed caused me to be unable to swallow anything...and I still cannot swallow liquids, and struggle with swallowing solids. My LLND thinks this was a huge herx-related effect. We don't yet know if the damage done is permanent or is just taking a very long time to get better.
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Chronic Bartonella (clinical dx only), Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, chronic Lymphopenia, etc.; G-Tube; Currently weaning off TPN.
Meds:  Pulmicort, IV Doxycycline, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Singulair, Domperidone, Colloidal Silver (topically & nasally), probiotics, Liver support herbs, Ailanthus, digestive enzymes, homeopathy.


Nicky D
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 361
   Posted 3/7/2010 8:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey,

So I have now had herxes which are definitely from die-off, and not medication side effects, but I have also had problems with medication side effects when I switch medications.

I don't think we "have" to herx, but personally, I want to get rid of this as soon as possible, and I wasn't so sick that I bad herx would send me to the ER, so I don't mind it, because I think it means I'm killing the Lyme quickly. I think it might make it easier to tell if treatment is working, because it provides a visible sign that something is happening, but I don't think it is necessary. The way my doctor seems to see it, I don't need to see a herx every time I change medication, but it is possible it could happen. If I don't great (as long as I see improvement), and if I do, if it goes on too long, or is too bad, he would change my dosage, or add in something new for detox, but other than that it's not a big deal
,

CajunGrl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4717
   Posted 3/7/2010 8:15 PM (GMT -6)   
I think it depends on how fast your liver can get all of the toxins out. If you have a sluggish liver, then your symptoms will be much worse. In my case, they were very bad to where I could barely move and the pain was unbearable.
**You never know how STRONG you are....until being STRONG is the ONLY choice you have**

lymediseasethroughmyeyes.blogspot.com/

Co-Moderator Lyme Disease Forum


bucci
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 1477
   Posted 3/7/2010 9:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Humm, I wonder about this too. Is it a killer herx or is it antibiotics that we just can't handle. When I did the inteferon protocol for Hep C which is killer it was nothing compared to the minimal dose of doxcy I was on. Inteferon/ribaviron was wicked and it caused more problems for me in the end. It probably was also worst thing for the lyme I didn't know I had. But they make people stay on that for 25 to 52 weeks and and the only way they can justify you becoming diabetic, loosing pituitary fu ction, thyroid function andchronic pain for rest of your life is "it will keep you from getting liver cancer".
This is not medicine. It is big money and using what they have "for now" and knowing they don't have real cure.
Same thing is going on here with this lyme. DOCTORS are throwing darts at the wall .Not all, of coursce.
I really believe some people if they are going to do antibiotics NEED IV and not the pills. and I think that too many doctors won't admit that they can not treat you because of the IV and they don't have the experience with it. At least my doctor in Seattle who is VERY experienced and had lyme herself told me.."YOU NEED IV AND I DON"T DO IV TREATMENT." She gave me names of 3 doctors back on east coast to go and do this with my family around.

She also said .someone being treated for lymes is same as being treated for cancer and the whole family has to get on board.
This is big stuff ..these antibiotics. and Jerrigan makes a lot of sense what he says. I have his book and see how it changed Gary's life.

I also see how my DR. Korn does not push heavy antibiotics either but he does give it to me 3 times a week.
He also says NO magnesium and has stopped it because him and Dr Fry from fry labs found that this was a reason for relapsing. somethingab out the biofilms.
So there are different approaches but it seems like to me the lighter side on the antibiotics is the more humane way to go.
I have heard my doctor refuse to treat one patient that requested anther antibiotic because he felt it was too harsh of a drug and could not support using it. (don't know which one it was though)
and Cajun is right about the liver thing. she should know after hers swelling up from treatment. I have HEP C. what ever I'm getting now is all I can handle for sure.

I really thing lyme people are being put through treatment a little too brutally . It can't possibly be right . Loosing your gut is the worst thing. If your digestion goes your life is hell.

I have 3 more weeks here so lets see after that but I'm sitll so grateful everyday I get to got there . The rife machine seems to be very powerful and that gives me side effects for sure. I love the lymph drainage machine and the ozone sauna too. I don't hink I could have done this in my house with my family stumbling all over themselves helpless trying to make my miserable self comfortable. I would have made them nuts by now and would have been abusive with them too. I'm better off alone at night and getting all the support at the clinic all day.

I love this forum too, by the way. It is the only place I can even go to talk to people. I can't stand talking about myself to anyone else. I still feel like people feel bad for me and hate that but also feel like they think I am a life long head case.

xxxxxxxxxx
hep c , lyme
Dad has lyme


bucci
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 1477
   Posted 3/7/2010 9:47 PM (GMT -6)   
doxy...oh and also I wanted to share that little side effect of the doxcycline "DO NOT LAY DOWN AFTER TAKING THE DOXY".

THAT I LEARNED THE HARD WAY. JUST FROM BEING SO FREAKING TIRED . I TOOK THE DOXCY AND LAYED DOWN AND
WITHIN HALF HOUR MY NECK OR THROAT STARTED TO CLOSE UP . IT FELT LIKE POISON IVEY IN MY THROAT.

WHAT IS THAT STUFF??
hep c , lyme
Dad has lyme

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