Dr. Rau on Lyme Disease and why Antibiotics don’t work

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Deejavu
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Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4282
   Posted 8/9/2010 6:32 AM (GMT -6)   

Hi all,

 

Okay, thanks to Gary who gave me this link, I listened to Part 1 and 2 so far of Dr. Rau’s speech (Dr. Jernigan studied with Dr. Rau in Switzerland) at the Marion Institute in Massachusetts and it is fascinating to say the least!

 

He states the mercury from our teeth poisons us as well as Rocephin which contains mercury, preservatives, and toxins.  

 

He also states antibiotics "cause" the lyme bacteria to build cell walls and go into Cyst form  (there are scientific studies that back this up).

 

Dr. Rau talks about the Inner Milieu which is our inner environment:

Milieu intérieur or interior milieu, from the French, milieu intérieur, (the environment within) is a term coined by Claude Bernard to refer to the extra-cellular fluid environment, and its physiological capacity to ensure protective stability for the tissues and organs of multicellular living organisms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milieu_int%C3%A9rieur

 

http://www.pbmn.org/inner/rau_interview.html

 

 

Dr. Rau’s treatment does not address the germ but addresses the human being in its whole.

 

Some of what he says:

 

The Inner Milieu determines the pathology of the germ.

 

Look beyond the infections and you will find viral infections plus toxins thus lyme is a toxic, viral and a little bit of the germ.

 

40% of the population has Bb but has no symptoms.

 

For some reason, this link is not working so I am trying to fix it:

 

http://www.pbmn.org/inner/about.html

 

There is so much more but I’m still absorbing everything he is saying.

 

This is Part 1 (there are 5 parts):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYZ5FiQ_g18&feature=channel

 

Denise


It's all about Detoxing Daily, strengthening the Immune System mixed with a dose of Positive Thinking!
 
This song is about my years with chronic lyme since 1995 and being symptom free for over 4 years:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds81S61UvPA
 
Currently taking Estrovera, ProgX (progesterone), Adrenotone Plus, CoQ10, Vitamin B Total, C, Green Vibrance, CALM (Magnesium/Calcium)

Post Edited (Deejavu) : 8/9/2010 6:43:34 AM (GMT-6)


1bitten2xshy
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Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 849
   Posted 8/9/2010 4:26 PM (GMT -6)   
2 years and then treating virals for 1 year and I am almost (95%) there.

I think abx has a place in treating Lyme as well as non-traditional medicine.

Each person's body is different, and what worked for one, will not always work for the next!
 
 

Simela
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Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 552
   Posted 8/9/2010 4:27 PM (GMT -6)   
JunkYardWilly

If caught early on, ax may be enough, but that is not always the case. I have no idea when I got bit. I tested + for lyme, but I never had the rash. Many pople that were on abx relapsed, just like me. I wish abx were enough, but sometimes they are not...

Simela
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Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 552
   Posted 8/9/2010 4:29 PM (GMT -6)   
1bitten2xshy
How long ago were you bit after you were given abx? Did you take abx for 2 years?

1bitten2xshy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 849
   Posted 8/9/2010 4:30 PM (GMT -6)   
I did take abx for 2 years, on the pulse method. Combo of orals. Did try IV for 1 week had a reaction and never went back.  I also treated for yeast with abx for 90 days straight as well.  Treated for Babs (did test positive for that) and treated for Bart for 6 weeks on heavy duty abx, just in case.

I was sick for 9 months, but real sick for 5 months before treatment was started. No, I did not have a rash nor knew I was bit.
 
 

Simela
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Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 552
   Posted 8/9/2010 4:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Denise:

Lots of good info, thanks for posting.

The guy from long island has moved out of state to be with family. He was in a wheel chair and could no longer take care of himself. He has an active store on Amazon, but that doesn't mean much to me, because I know family was helping him with the store. I've emailed him again today, someone gave me a different email address that I believe is for his amazon store. I am waiting patiently to see if I hear from him. That is all I could dig up. The lady that helped me with his email address said he had to give up his cat to another forum member--I guess his family didn't wanted :( I will let you know if I find out any details, as I am not sure how long he was sick, and praying he is still alive.

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4282
   Posted 8/9/2010 5:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi all,
 
I just find it interesting to listen to Dr. Rau's point of view.. I'm not taking any sides here nor do I want to start a debate..  I just think that the more knowledge we have, the better.
 
Dr. Rau compares the Eastern World to the Western World and that itself is very interesting.   He wrote a book about diet called the "The Swiss Secret to Optimal Health: Dr. Rau's Diet for Whole Body Healing" but I don't know if I am disciplined enough to follow that diet..   If I can get this book at a cheap price, I would be interested in reading it.
 
Here is a link to some of his recipes as he believes in good nutrition is part of any healing process including cancer, fibro, etc.:
 
 
I did read somewhere that Dr. Rau had allergy problems, asthma attacks and some other problems and as soon as he got the mercury removed from his teeth, those problems went away..  
 
Many links on this website:
 
 
Well, I still have 3 more parts to listen to..  Have to make time as each segment is about 20 minutes long.. 
 
Denise
It's all about Detoxing Daily, strengthening the Immune System mixed with a dose of Positive Thinking!
 
This song is about my years with chronic lyme since 1995 and being symptom free for over 4 years:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds81S61UvPA
 
Currently taking Estrovera, ProgX (progesterone), Adrenotone Plus, CoQ10, Vitamin B Total, C, Green Vibrance, CALM (Magnesium/Calcium)

+Lyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1304
   Posted 8/9/2010 8:18 PM (GMT -6)   
Denise, from the little you posted, there is a lot of sense in this. And I'm not even including the links, cause I haven't looked at them yet.

So far, I have been a believer in Abx, if strong enough, but also hear too many stories about lack of success w/ abx.

There are still SO MANY QUESTIONS about all of this, but looking at this disease and all the crap that follows, it does seem that the whole human body must be considered. LYme suppresses immune system, allowing other viruses to reactivate. And other viruses suppress the immune system, allowing an infection w/ Bb to flourish. And so many of us who have active Lyme infections, also have a lot of other problems (thyroid, viruses, skin conditions, mental problems, etc etc etc)

I do kinda doubt that 40% of the population is infected w/ Lyme, but it sure as sh--t seems to be infected w/ SOMETHING.

That abx cause Lyme to morph into cell form, or go into hiding until the abx and antibody threats have passed is really scary, and this does appear to be a problem. I am wondering about the timeframe here, and if this is a truth for most everyone, because that creates a really big mess!

CAN the abx finally get thru or can they never? My LLMD believes in abx, so I intend to ask him about this. And he is willing to prescribe abx for the rest of one's life, if necessary. In that case, it seems to me that the abx are doing nothing but keeping the Bb in cell form, L form, or 'in hiding'.

I would really like to hear more success stories w/ abx! Anyone?

And again, with LYme it does seem to appear that the whole body and spirit must be treated in order to build a strong immune system --- so I am assuming that is part of what you are talking about.

Great topic, Denise!
Bit 1972: Acute and chronic tonsillitis, UTI, miscarraige, appendicitis, hypoglycemia,  chronic neck pain w/ crushed vertibrae, chronic severe back pain, mitral valve prolapse, depression, resolution?
 
Bit Mother's Day 2007: Lyme, Babesia microti, hypothyroidism, EBV, HHV6, Parvovirus B19, low adrenals &misc other hormones, depression, anxiety, more of the above.

Simela
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 552
   Posted 8/10/2010 1:12 AM (GMT -6)   
JunkYardWilly

I think you have to have enough abx to kill the spirochets. In my case, I was given 3 wks and at that time, I have had it for at least 6 mo. I was diagnosed in the early Spring, 2009 and I was not in the woods during Fall-winter 2008 and early Spring 2009. I don't think anyone says abx don't work. I think it is an art to find the right amount of abx to kill it. I think that is where the problem is. Yes, long term abx may work for some, but others can't tollerate it, it distroys their liver, kidneys, etc. We have to educate ourselves and be smart about it.

When I got diagnosed, doc told me to take the meds and I did. I am not cured and in fact, I have days when I feel lousy--worst than before I was diagnosed. I am sure in my case it COULD have worked if doc would have gave me more abx and I also knew about detox. I trusted him, I didn't know anything about lyme, neither was I an active participant to try and find out. I TRUSTED HIS JUDGEMENT! And here I am at least 2 years later! Hey, I will take abx, I just want the doc to make THE RIGHT jugedment call and give me enough! The people you have heard about were lucky. I know someone that is in a wheel chair. He is on all kinds of meds, including abx. THey help, but everyone is different and there is no guarrantee even the people you are talking about, won't relapse at some point. I was going through a v. depressing time, I was pregnant, got into a car accident, had trauma from that and injuries, etc. If the spirochetes were killed, they would not have come back, and I would not be here today, I would still think I am cured, as I did for almost a year!!!

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4282
   Posted 8/10/2010 4:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi all,
 
+Lyme, I'm not so sure if this is a good topic or not..  Actually, I feel kind of stupid listening to Dr. Rau as I am trying to connect all the dots and lots of what he says I really don't understand but yet I need to understand if that makes any sense.. 
 
I'm just so darn curious and I'm hungry to learn how spirochetes actually work inside the body, stealth pathogens, etc.   Again, I only listened to 2 parts so far.. And even though each part is 20 minutes long, I keep "rewinding" the video because at the same time I am typing notes on Microsoft Word...  Dr. Rau does have an accent and in Part 1 he kept saying "Milieu" and I had no idea what he was saying??  I never heard the word "milieu" before so I kept listening over and over again until I finally got it.. Duh! 
 
As far as cell walls and cysts, it's probably in Dr. Jernigan's new book which I do have and I know there is a section on biofilms that Dr. J. talks about so maybe I should dig out his book..   Afterall, he did study with Dr. Rau in Switzerland at his clinic..  
 
I do remember members from another lyme forum talking about taking a different antibiotic that their LLMD called a "cyst buster" but who knows if those cysts were busted?
 
Kind of wish I could see inside the human body and watch these spirochetes as well as watch when antibiotics are put inside to see how spirochetes react..  I'm sure there are scientists who take spirochetes  and put them in a rat or another form of body and analyze it all..  
 
I also wish that I wasn't always so darn curious..  But that's the way I have always been ever since I could remember..  I didn't want to play with dolls, I wanted a chemistry set which my parents finally ended up getting for me..  And then they took it away for awhile after I made a skunk bomb which caused my baby brother to heave (not going to use the "v" word) in the bathroom!   rolleyes
 
Well, when I have time (I am triple-tasking at the moment) as I am working, cleaning out my house so I can put it on the market, I will get to Parts 3, 4, and 5..  
 
The bottom line is if I could understand this better, perhaps I would learn something that would be beneficial to other members and shed some light so people can get better..  I don't want to hear about any more deaths as that really upsets me.
 
I did learn one small tidbit as far as Mercury poisoning and because I lost my upper teeth when I was 17 years old (from a bad accident), I have little mercury in my mouth, so I really believe that's why I responded to Dr. J's protocol so well..  I do believe there's much truth is mercury poisoning as well as treating the body as a whole..  Everything is connected..  How can we separate the mind from the body as well as stressful situations that we all deal with?   I do believe it all plays a role in getting better as well as good nutrition.. 
 
Denise
It's all about Detoxing Daily, strengthening the Immune System mixed with a dose of Positive Thinking!
 
This song is about my years with chronic lyme since 1995 and being symptom free for over 4 years:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds81S61UvPA
 
Currently taking Estrovera, ProgX (progesterone), Adrenotone Plus, CoQ10, Vitamin B Total, C, Green Vibrance, CALM (Magnesium/Calcium)

+Lyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1304
   Posted 8/10/2010 9:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Denise, IMO, all of the stuff --- mercury poisoning and all is very interesting and very worthy of discussion. Spirochetes are the problem for almost all of us , so anything we can learn, or any theories we can understand are worthwhile.

I especially think that abx vs Other cures (alternative, homeopathic, etc etc) is really important for us to learn about. I've chosen abx right now because I have a new LLMD and this is his approach. If I learn and understand down the road, that the abx are only keeping this rat ****** at arm's length and not destroying him (them, ie; spirochetes), then I will have to reorganize.

That you brought up the theory that abx can actually prevent our healing is very important, regardless of whether one believes in the abx, or in other protocols and procedures. This proposed theory is pretty significant.

I, too, am anxious to see more responses. And as well, would like to learn about successes w/ abx --- not 'improvements', but successes.
Bit 1972: Acute and chronic tonsillitis, UTI, miscarraige, appendicitis, hypoglycemia,  chronic neck pain w/ crushed vertibrae, chronic severe back pain, mitral valve prolapse, depression, resolution?
 
Bit Mother's Day 2007: Lyme, Babesia microti, hypothyroidism, EBV, HHV6, Parvovirus B19, low adrenals &misc other hormones, depression, anxiety, more of the above.

IH8Ticks
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 296
   Posted 8/10/2010 10:51 PM (GMT -6)   
The ability of Lyme to hide from antibiotics is exactly why I am on a pulsing schedule. The "off" weeks lull the bacteria out of hiding. Then I hit it with high doses of abx. It seems to have helped me to a great degree. There are some abx which have been shown in the lab to destroy the cyst form. Lyme can also form a protective barrier around its colonies, which hide it from abx and immune cells. Some treatments have been shown to break down this barrier in the lab, but keep in mind that sometimes things don't work the same in the real world.

I consider myself a partial success story with abx. I've gone from being nearly bed-ridden to being able to function almost normally. However, I can't seem to get past this last hurdle in order to be completely cured (or in remission). I think that this is due to my insomnia. I can't heal all the way because I can't sleep and recover.

I haven't read the links, but here are some of my general thoughts on the subject:

1. I don't think anyone has the complete story on Lyme yet because it is such a tricky disease. I think that some of these doctors have pieces to the story, but it hasn't all come together yet.

2. There are probably multiple strains of Lyme, and there could be undiscovered Lyme-like illness spreading around. This might explain why different treatments work for different people, and why different people have different symptoms.

3. People's bodies are different. They react differently to the same diseases, and they respond differently to treatment. I think that my hypothyroidism effects my treatment. My body temperature is low, so I don't produce a fever to kill pathogens. My heart rate is abnormally slow, except when I'm exercising, so my blood doesn't pump as much to disseminate abx and to wash out toxins. However, my filtration system seems to work well, which is maybe why I don't herx for as long as other people do.

Jessy1974
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 5
   Posted 6/30/2012 9:27 AM (GMT -6)   
Sadly when I tried to discuss Dr Rau after attending his clinic the post was locked down, so so sad as all I was doing was trying to give my side of the story re this clinic.

I was questioned re did I attend the clinic by Gary as he said on the post uner Dr Rau that I could have been a 'spammer' and the post was a bit Fishy.................

I did attended the clinic last year for 3 visits. I went after suffering Long term Neuro Lyme and was trying to find an alternative approach from the ILADS doctors, I was so desperate. I was ill went I went but by the time I left after the 3 visits over a 6 Month Period my health was devastated, totally totally disabled to a point of now I have to be cared for.

I am working again with an ILADS doctor as I am so unwell but please email me if you would like any further details. Sadly I borowed on the home, spent all my families savings and the 3 visits were over $60,000. Gary says many Lyme patients have gotten well with the Paracelsus, I wish they would come forward as I researched after and only met 2 patients that had ever seen improvements at the clinic for Lyme wheras I have know 1000's recover under ILADS. There is nothing Fishy about my post Gary, I really do have experience of this clinic.

Post Edited By Moderator (achievinggrace) : 6/30/2012 9:49:17 AM (GMT-6)


achievinggrace
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 3266
   Posted 6/30/2012 9:45 AM (GMT -6)   
Jessy,

I appreciate you want to share your story and help other people. It's just that this forum is for support. If you look at our forum rules you will see that we don't allow "flaming" -- that is posting negative stuff about anyone. We can't have someone doing an internet search about this clinic, for example, and have the search pull up what you have said that pans the place. It's defamation.

So, I've edited your post and would encourage anyone considering this clinic to contact you.

Thanks for your understanding.
Co-Moderator Lyme Disease Forum

PrayingForAMiracle
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2012
Total Posts : 289
   Posted 6/30/2012 2:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Abx's certainly have their place and work wonderfully when taken quickly after a tick bite in a large enough dosage.

With that said, I have known people who have taken abx's and gotten well and remain so to this day. I have known people who used Crowden, Jernigan and everything else under the sun that got well and I have talked to quite a few like myself that have tried it all and not gotten any better.

We must understand that there are so many strains of these Tick borne diseases and what works for some, might not work for someone else.
It is the same with cancer to a degree, some get well, some don't. I am not trying to sound negative or argue with anyone, I just think it's very important that people understand that it's not a one size fits all disease.
I hate to see anyone put all their eggs in one basket or be made to feel like a failure....like they didn't try hard enough if they try abx's or Jernigan or Crowden or anything else with no improvement.

Jessy1974, I fully understand. We spent a fortune and I never improved. To this day i feel such guilt over the financial hardship I placed on my husband. I should have stopped before I did but I was desperate. People need to know the good and bad. I was made to feel like a complete failure by many on boards because in their opinions I must not have tried hard enough and I've seen others treated unkindly. Common sense tells me that after going back over and over and over with no improvement you must stop stop throwing away money you really no longer have.
Thanks to my stubbornness we had to file bankruptcy almost 3 years ago and I continue to live in bed.

As I said I'm not trying to be Debbie downer or create problems, we just need to be completely honest on both sides of this issue.

Post Edited (PrayingForAMiracle) : 6/30/2012 2:21:34 PM (GMT-6)


PrayingForAMiracle
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2012
Total Posts : 289
   Posted 6/30/2012 4:56 PM (GMT -6)   
WWJD20 I agree somewhat but not all people no matter how much faith and how positive we are will get well. I am a prime example. I was determined to get well no matter what. Believe it or not I continue to pray for a miracle. I eat a healthy diet, I tried acupuncture, herbs and everything you listed. The fact remains that some people just don't get well and we can't...No, we should never feel guilty like we didn't believe strongly enough or fight hard enough or keep a positive enough attitude. Why do I keep repeating this? Because Nobody has ever fought harder than me and I am not well. I had everything to lose when I got sick and have EVERYTHING to gain by getting well.

Will I ever get well, I continue to hope and pray I will but with that said I am realistic and know it may not happen. In my mind laying in this bed I daydream of the future when I can get out of bed and regain my once active life because we must never give up hope.
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