Probiotics: When to take them?

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Simela
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   Posted Yesterday 3:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Are you suppossed to take probiotics before, at the same time, or after you take your abx?

Thanks!

GWB
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   Posted Yesterday 5:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Probiotics need to be taken two to three hours apart from abx.

madrivergirl30
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   Posted Today 5:30 AM (GMT -6)   
My doctor has told me the same - to take them as far apart from the antibiotic dose as possible.

Simela
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   Posted Today 9:26 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, my doc didn't say anything about probiotics and started to buy hefir and take it at the same time. Not a good mix!

GWB
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Date Joined Jul 2005
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   Posted Today 9:41 AM (GMT -6)   
Plain, unsweetened hefir is great! But the same principle as probiotics, two to three hours in between abx. I always take my last dose of probiotics at night before bedtime too.

Gary

achievinggrace
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   Posted Today 10:55 AM (GMT -6)   
I found that replenishing your good bacteria after every dose of antibiotics is the best way to keep the yeast overgrowth away. Wait two hours and then take your probiotics. You need to take more than just what is recommended on the bottle. My doc said to take four of the Primodophilus capsules, where the suggestion is one a day. When I was taking antibotics four times a day, I took as many as sixteen to keep well.

Mamyou
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   Posted Today 11:18 AM (GMT -6)   
Here's the way I see it as an explanation. The abx is taken to kill off bacteria..... good and bad...and probably everything in between. The probiotics, no matter what you're taking, is to replenish the good bacteria in the gut. So if you take any probiotics at the same time or close to the abx, I see the abx killing anything you're trying to replenish. If you take the probiotics between abx doses, then you have a chance they'll live and innoculate the gut like they're supposed to, at least for awhile. It's a give and take situation. You're taking abx on a regular basis to kill off so you need to take probiotics on a regular basis to keep replenishing. On my days off from abx, I take just as many probiotics as when I'm on them. I like to think it gives me a running start toward the next round.... That's how I explain it to myself....

Traveler
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   Posted Today 11:20 AM (GMT -6)   
I like your explanation, Mamyou!!! :)
Even the mightiest oak tree was once a little nut who held it's ground!!!
May we all find peace along the journey to find healing.
"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP
Trav

Mamyou
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   Posted Today 1:10 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, Trav, I'm not always as dumb as I look!!! My hat is off to you and the others on your knowledge of lyme though!!!!!

Simela
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Date Joined Aug 2010
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   Posted Today 1:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, everyone. I probably already read about taking it 3-4 hours before or after on this forum, but in all honesty I could not remember today. I keep forgetting everything lately! Trav probably told me I should take it before abx. I can't keep up with all this! Yesterday I completely forgot to take my thyroid medicine. Then even when I take it, I keep thinking that maybe I did not take it. I am getting really confused. I called the LLMD that I decided on going to but he is not in until tomorow. I hope I can get an apointment soon. THis is really not like me, at all! I go to get something I forget why I am there... No clue...

Willowrose
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Date Joined Oct 2009
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   Posted Today 3:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Simela, I take so many supplements and prescriptions that I can't keep track of what I've taken without some kind of system. So now I have two little trays. When I take a pill, I move the bottle to the other tray. That way I can keep track of what I've taken (except for the stuff in the refrigerator, and I just have to remember that). This is all a lot to keep track of during a time when it is more difficult than usual to do so.

Rose
I have Lyme; it doesn't have me.

Simela
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Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 552
   Posted Today 3:52 PM (GMT -6)   
ROse:

I have tried to put all my pills for the day in one bottle--that way I figure I will be able to figure out easily if I took them or not. But I get confused and get them from the original bottle, swallow them, and then wondering if I took them or not. I think I will hide all the original bottles and just keep everything in a tray by days of the week. I know they exist, maybe CVS has one. I will ask my husband to get me one of those on this way back from work.

springsjean
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Date Joined Mar 2009
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   Posted Today 4:05 PM (GMT -6)   
I take my probiotics with breakfast and have had great luck with avoiding gut/yeast problems despite being on antibiotics for 1 1/2 years. (Hope I didn't just jinx myself - LOL)
Lyme, erlichosis, bartonella, herpes, EBV. 4 years undiagnosed despite 10 drs.
Current meds: tetracycline, amanatadine, neurontin, xanax, valtrex
Prior meds: amoxicillin, probenecid, doxy. IV refused by insurance.
THERE ARE ROUGH DAYS, TOUGH DAYS BUT ALSO GOOD DAYS. MY BOYS GET ME THROUGH THE BAD AND I SO ENJOY THE GOOD DAYS WITH THEM!

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35740
   Posted Today 4:30 PM (GMT -6)   
I have to buy the BIG pill organizers and use several of them to get me through the day! It really stinks, but it really does help to use them.
Heck, I've gotten to the point that even though I have my bedtime pills sitting right next to me on the night stand I can forget to take them!!! Did it last night again!!
Even the mightiest oak tree was once a little nut who held it's ground!!!
May we all find peace along the journey to find healing.
"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP
Trav

GWB
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 570
   Posted Today 5:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Simela said...
THis is really not like me, at all! I go to get something I forget why I am there... No clue...


I'll never forget the time I was driving to pick up my wife, Rhonda, (daisyrlb) from work one day. All the sudden I realized I was on the wrong end of town and had no idea how I got there. I had to pull over in a parking lot and think about where I was and figure out which way to go. Basically I had some kind of a black out but was still conscious and aware of everything. It was like a dream when I "woke up" and realized I was on the wrong end of town. Scared the dickens out of me. My LLMD at the time said it is not uncommon for those of us with Lyme to experience this. I won't even tell you how many times I through my keys in the garbage and put cold food in the oven and on and on... Ain't this disease fun--NOT!

Gary

Simela
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   Posted Today 5:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Gary:

How did you get better? Were you on abx for long? How long? I know you have seen dr J also and it has helped you, but at this point I would like to know more of your abx treatement. Since you know a lot about Lyme (i have read some of your posts here for a while and Rhonda's too) did you know that the lyme bacteria may be take a biofilm form in some people and thus, hard to cure and likely to relapse?

GWB
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 570
   Posted Today 10:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Simela,

The short answer to your question is after five years of failing to get better taking abx I went to see Dr. Jernigan at the Hansa Center for treatments and therapies. His treatments, remedies and home protocol is what has contributed to my improvement. I was on every abx out there, including Bicillin shots. I just could not take oral abx anymore as they were tearing up my stomach. Unfortunately, in the five years I was on abx I continued to get worse. My last LLMD gave up on me and said there was nothing more he could do for me.

If you've read my thread then you pretty much know the rest of the story. Yes, I'm aware of the biofilm issue and very interested in this too. Dr. Jernigan has me on Transformation TPP Protease and Nattokinase.

Here's some info on TPP Protease:

* Impaired Kidney Function
* Heavy Metal Toxins
* Modulation of the Immunce System


TPPTM Protease is a proprietary blend of highly active proteolytic enzymes with a wide range of pH stability. Proteolytic enzymes taken orally under certain conditions have been shown to be absorbed in substantial quantities into the blood. Once in the blood circulation, the enzymes in this blend bind to serum proteins, particularly alpha 2-macroglobulin (a2M), and impart immunomodulatory benefits. One of the best-established functions served by the oral proteases in TPPTM blend is in the maintenance of normal blood flow. This is accomplished by breaking down blood clots (fibrinolysis) and platelet aggregation within blood vessels and breaking down excess extra-vascular plasma proteins as in edema. TPPTM Protease will also enhance the hydrolysis of food proteins for enhanced bio-availability of amino acids.


INDICATIONS:

IMPAIRED KIDNEY FUNCTION - Glomerulonephritis: In this disease there is a build up of protein in the basement membrane of the glomeruli of the kidneys. Fluids must pass through this basement membrane in the initial phase of the filtration of the blood by the kidneys. Recent research using an animal model of this disease "lends further support to the concept that enzymes capable of degrading immune complexes in situ can ameliorate glomerulonephritis".

HEAVY METAL TOXINS - Heavy metals such as lead (Pb) and mercury (Hg) exert their poisoning effect by binding to ionizable or sulfhydryl groups of proteins, including vital enzymes. Once these metals bind to an essential functional protein, such as an enzyme, they denature and/or inhibit it. This interaction of heavy metals to proteins can lead to degenerating diseases, nerve damage or even death. When taken on an empty stomach, it should be noted that protease is readily taken up into the mucosa cells of the intestine and passed into blood circulation. Clinical observations have noted that upon high intake of TPPTM Protease, heavy metal concentrations have been significantly decreased in the blood.

MODULATION OF THE IMMUNE SYSTEM - As a result of their coupling to a2M, Tzymeô proteolytic enzymes exhibit an increased binding of several very important cytokines (hormones-like molecules which have a powerful influence on immune cells) such as Transforming growth factor-beta (TGF-b), and Tumor Necrosis Factor-alpha (TNF-a). Studies have indicated that oral hydrolytic enzymes affect cytokine synthesis and modulatory effects. For instance, TNF-a synthesis, which is a necessary step in host defense against tumor cells, is impaired when experimentally inactivated oral proteolytic enzymes were used. Thus, active, GI stable and functional oral enzymes that are absorbed in the blood stream can provide therapeutic applications. In addition, studies have shown that oral proteolytic enzymes increased the tumoricidal and cytotoxic activities of polymorphonuclear neutrophils.

COMPONENT BENEFITS:
TzymeTM Protease Blend in TPPTM Protease provides vital systemic benefits that include support of adequate blood rheology for optimum flow of immune cells, their meditating molecules, hormones, blood cells and other vital molecules and cells. The superb absorption abilities and high functionality of this product are certain to enhance and optimize overall protein hydrolysis. These benefits, in turn, facilitate and support a wide array of metabolic processes.

Bromelain, an important addition to the TzymeTM Protease Blend, is a protease derived from the pineapple plant. It has been used for many years as a digestive aid, anti-inflammatory and burn debridement agent. Its actions help to prevent swelling/edema, promote smooth muscle relaxation, inhibit platelet aggregation, and enhance antibiotic absorption. Bromelain is also used in cancer treatment, ulcer prevention, sinusitis relief, appetite inhibition and shortening of labor. Proteolytic enzymes administered orally improved the survival time, the hematological parameters of spontaneous lymphoblastic leukemia in rats, and the metastasis and survival time of mice with Lewis lung carcinoma.

Several hypotheses have been put forth as to the mechanisms by which proteolytic enzymes modulate the immune system to control and eliminate tumors. Some studies indicated that proteolytic enzymes selectively remove some adhesion molecules such as CD4, CD44, B7-1, ICAM-1, B7-2, CD45RA, CD6, CD7, E2/MIC2, and Leu81/LAM 1 from cell surfaces According to Hale et al. the removal of these surface molecules has markedly enhanced CD2 mediated T-cell activity.

Some studies have implied that by removing the glycoprotein CD44, some proteases help control the tumor growth of certain types of cells. This selective removal of some mediator proteins, and the regulation of cytokines constitute some factors by which proteolytic enzymes are thought to modulate the immune system and act as biological response modifiers.--

Between the TPP Protease and Nattonkinase, I believe Dr. Jernigan is treating the biofilms along with everything else. Tomorrow morning my wife and I are going to the Hansa Center for two days for some additional treatments. Our last visit there was about five months ago. Will keep you all posted on what the outcome is.

Gary

Gary

Willowrose
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 699
   Posted 8/24/2010 12:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Gary, is this a pill, powder, tincture? Thanks.

Rose
I have Lyme; it doesn't have me.

Simela
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Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 552
   Posted 8/24/2010 4:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, Gary--what a story--you've been through a lot!

I am quite terrified to start treatement--IV treatement, not the amox that I am taking now.  I feel is not doing anything after 2 weeks.  I know I need something stronger to kill this. I am wondering if your success with Dr. J is due to the fact you did abx for so long first and abx killed a lot of the bacteria and Dr. J tuned up ?  Maybe the reason you didn't feel well is bec. a lot of the bacteria was dying and made you sick?  I would love to know if anyone did the herbal med without abx and still experienced the same success as you.

Terrified is the right word for my emotions, right now. I have to go through this without having my kids see anything weird going on. Yesterday I have had such a horrible day--today was a bit better--that I really felt I was dead. I sometimes step out of the room and I watch my kids and my husband together and realize that life goes on, whether I am around or not. It is almost like an out of body experience. I hope I did not weird you out!  I wonder if is the disease making me feel this way!

I am scared to start and scared not to start.  I have an appointment with an LLMD on Spt 16th.  He does IV+suppliments together.  I already went to an infectious disease doc and he ordered tests for co-infections and an MRI of my brain.  Do you think the MRI is necessary?  He also wants me to see a neurologist.  I didn't like this guy at all, so I don't know if I should go to see a neurologist and do an MRI.  I am waiting for the blood tests, I have never been tested for co-infections before.  He was quite arrogant and does not believe I have lyme, despite the fact my PCP said my tests were indeed + (all 4 of them, taken at different times, all within 1 year)

IF YOU WOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO BACK IN TIME, WOULD YOU START WITH DR. J AND AVOID ABX ALL TOGETHER?  dOES DR J DO BOTH (ABX AND MORE NATURAL REMEDIES)

thanks!

Post Edited (Simela) : 8/24/2010 4:53:42 PM (GMT-6)


GWB
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 570
   Posted 8/24/2010 6:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Willowrose said...
Gary, is this a pill, powder, tincture? Thanks.

Rose


Rose,

They are capsules www.enzymes.com/tpp_protease.html. Dr. David just upped the amount for me to take from two a day to four a day. We're here at the Hansa Center for two days of treatment. Will summarize and give update to all later on when my mind can digest it all and when my wife can help me as a lot of this goes over my head and she's better at explaining it than I am--smarter too. smilewinkgrin

Dr. David found some new things going on with me and has prescribed me a new homeopathic medicine he just invented. It's not something you can order online as you have to be tested for it. I was surprised at some of the findings today but the treatments really helped and I look forward to taking my new remedies. So far only one new remedy was given to me but tomorrow he'll do more BRS testing to decide what else I may or may not need. The three remedies I'm on now--no more.

By the way, we met Lisa today. She's so sweet and seems to be doing wonderful! Didn't get to spend much time with her as the office was packed today and everyone was busy with their treatments, so time chatting with patients was limited. Hope to have more time to talk to some of the forum members who are there tomorrow. Many people from all over the US are there and I was surprised at how many are there who found out about the Hansa Center from other sources than Lyme forums. The word about the Hansa Center is obviously spreading and the office was busy from opening to closing.

More to come later.

Gary

Post Edited (GWB) : 8/25/2010 7:16:16 PM (GMT-6)


GWB
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 570
   Posted 8/24/2010 7:19 PM (GMT -6)   
Simela,

When I was on abx for five years I was off and on them for about two to three weeks at a time. They all hurt my stomach so badly that I just couldn't take them any longer than that long. Some of them gave me some really bad side effects too. I have a very sensitive stomach. My previous LLMD's did all they could to find abx that would not bother my stomach, or give me bad side effects, but for some reason I just did not do well with abx. Some people (like my wife) can handle them fine, others just can't handle them for whatever reason.

My wife relapsed twice and both times went back on abx and got well again. But after her recent relapse she decided to go the natural route and get treated at the Hansa Center. She decided this because she saw how well I did on his protocol. I went from near death (last December) after being extremely sick for five years to getting well in just six months time. My wife has been doing great on Dr. Jernigan's treatment and is very happy she didn't go back on abx this time. Please don't take this to mean we are "anti-antibiotics, we aren't. It's just that we are seeing so many people have such great success on this protocol that it makes sense to us to follow this protocol since it's been so effective for us. People who get treated early, after they get infected, have the best success rate with abx treatment. If a person waits three months or longer, it becomes that much more difficult to treat with abx.

You asked, "IF YOU WOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO BACK IN TIME, WOULD YOU START WITH DR. J AND AVOID ABX ALL TOGETHER? dOES DR J DO BOTH (ABX AND MORE NATURAL REMEDIES)"

Yes, absolutely if I could go back in time I'd start with Dr. J and avoid abx. But keep in mind, at that time I didn't have any real understanding about natural medicines like I do today, so I was not ready back then to make a decision to do something like that. Plus, the lyme forum I participated on at the time (not Healing Well), was very pro abx and looked down on natural remedies five years ago. It's just been recently that lyme forums are more open to talk about people having success with natural treatments, ART, BRS testing, Biological medicine etc. I never really believed in this "stuff". I called it "hocus-pocus" medicine and thought it was a too weak to be effective for treating Lyme.

I have since discovered I was wrong in my thinking about natural medicine and lyme disease--HOWEVER, it's still not an easy disease to treat even with natural medicine. That's why you need to go to someone who has a proven track record and has treated thousands of people who have gotten well. Dr. Jernigan has a proven record and knows this disease better than most LLMD's who treat lyme disease. He had the disease himself (walked in our shoes) and has invented over 30 natural medicines and treated thousands of people with chronic illnesses, not just Lyme disease.

The ONLY reason I went to the Hansa Center is because I felt there was no other hope that I would live if I didn't try something different. When death comes knocking at your door, you begin to think that maybe alternative medicine is something to explore. Heck, if I thought drinking drano would have cured me I probably would have tried it. tongue I had basically lost all hope of living. I wanted to die, I prayed every night that I would not wake up to another day of this misery. During Christmas (last December) our grandkids were at our house as they are every Christmas. My wife said to me, "Gary, are you going to give up the fight and leave your grandkids without a Papa?" I told her I couldn't fight this anymore. Rhonda pleaded with me to try one more protocol and if it didn't work she would agree with me that we would not spend another cent investing in trying to make me better from this disease.

Thanks to Deejavu (Denise) for sharing with me about this protocol on Healing Well. If it had not been for her I probably wouldn't be writing this post right now. That may seem dramatic, but I am telling you with all sincerity that's how close I came to giving up. Denise, my wife, my grandkids, my family, and God's grace spurred me on to try one more time, or more protocol. I'm so glad I did.

Gary

GWB
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 570
   Posted 8/25/2010 7:32 PM (GMT -6)   
***** EDIT TO POST WRITTEN ON 8/24 (YESTERDAY) at 7:24:

I mistakenly wrote that Dr. David increased the amount of TPP Transformation Protease from 2 a day to four a day. Wrong information. He upped the dosage from 2 a day to 12 a day! I'll write more about my experience soon and why he upped the dosage so high. Just got back from Wichita and kinda tired right now. Great trip and wonderful experience. Was a little stunned to find out about an infection I have in my body that could potentially cause me great harm if I don't take care of it. This discovery was made from a test called Computerized Regulation Thermography (CRT). More about that later.

My wife, daisyrlb, had a real amazing experience today while being treated by Dr. David (her last treatment of the day). I will let her tell you what happened during her treatment. Let me just say this, he solved a BIG problem for her that the ER doctor couldn't figure out with and X-ray two weeks ago and ended up giving her a completely wrong diagnosis. What the ER doctor couldn't do with an X-ray, Dr. David did with his hands, and it TOTALLY solved her problem and pain she's been in for almost two weeks--amazing! But I'll let daisyrlb tell you about it as I'm sure she'll want to tell you herself.

It was a great two days at the Hansa Center and it was PACKED! We met some wonderful people in the lobby, and the ionic foot bath room, who all had a story to tell about how they went to a zillion doctors and couldn't get well until they finally went to Dr. David at the Hansa Center. Amazing stories, and not all Lyme patients either. Many are there getting treatment for other chronic diseases other that Lyme disease, some are being treated for a variety of ailments.

I look forward to updating you with more information soon. Right now I need to get a little R&R for the rest of the evening. :-)

Gary

Simela
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Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 552
   Posted 8/25/2010 8:49 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for sharing your story, Gary. It sounds pretty amazing being there. I may just have to plan a future trip and see for myself. Son starting school on Monday, so I can't get away for a while. It sounds like it is helpful to go, not matter what, no matter how far along a disease is. I will keep checking for Rhonda's story.

daisyrlb
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 277
   Posted 8/25/2010 9:55 PM (GMT -6)   
It was a great two days at the Hansa Center, and I do look forward to posting.

For now, I wanted to share about the atmosphere at the Center. When you walk in...it feels more like walking into a friend's house than walking into a doctor's office. This helps calm people and alleviate concerns/fears imagined before arriving. The staff is very warm and joyful, while at the same time professional. When Gary and I arrived there were hugs all around.

The waiting area has several couches, chairs, and a large coffee table and on it there are health magazines, a devotional, etc. There is a cozy feel to the office which is very conducive to conversing with one another (quite different than a traditional doctor's office where you usually don't even make eye contact with other patients).

It was wonderful to meet HW posters: KKD/Keeley and lita31/Lisa...precious, beautiful women. It is so nice to put a face with the name! I felt like we were at a family reunion as we talked, caught up with each others' "journeys", and even showed family pictures (via our cell phones...talk about technology). It was great meeting the other patients too.

Each Wednesday, at lunch time, there is a workshop in the Center's conference room. Today Dr. Jernigan shared, "Respecting the Wisdom of the Body". It was very interesting. The body is a lot smarter than people give it credit for. As I looked around the room, I think all of the patients were there (along with family members), and perhaps some others from the community too.

Well, that's it for now. I'll be back soon to share about my "tune up".

Have a blessed evening.

daisyrlb
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 277
   Posted 8/29/2010 9:19 PM (GMT -6)   
My visit at the Hansa Center...but first...

In July we were at a conference in Las Vegas for ten days. The day we were to fly home I woke and felt pain in my chest. It wasn't too bad at first, however, by the time we arrived at the airport it was a lot worse, plus I was short of breath. I ignored it until I became nauseated. That's when I told my husband. I started sweating and had chills. Became tired. My left arm and left hand became numb. Then my right hand. I did not feel well and, try as I could with my best poker face, I couldn't continue to hide how bad I felt. OK, so airport personnel called 911.

Paramedics started IV, gave me four baby aspirin, nitro tablet, and did an EKG. (I hated taking those pills!) ER bottom line…after a heart attach was ruled out...the doctor said I probably had either an ulcer or gastritis and wanted to give me a proton pump inhibitor which I refused.

Long story short, we arrived home and off and on had some stomach issues. Then the Saturday before my visit to the Hansa Center was the worst stomach pain in my life! I can only describe it as looking like I was six months pregnant with twins…and they were boxing all day. I did take some gas-X…and that finally helped.

I shared the above with Dr. Jernigan. He felt my stomach/abdomen and found that I had a hiatal hernia. Mini-lesson: The diaphragm separates our lower organs from our heart and lungs. There is a hole in the diaphragm where the esophagus passes through. A hiatal hernia happens when the stomach/part of the stomach passes through the opening, upwards. This can cause various issues including putting pressure on the heart and lungs. (In the ER the doctor never did touch my stomach or abdomen.)

Dr. Jernigan did a procedure, several times, where he pressed on the middle of my chest and then pushed down until he got the stomach back to its proper position. The results were immediate; I could literally feel the difference. And I have not had any problem since. (You can google about the hiatal hernias and specifically that procedure...I found it interesting to read about.)

I look forward to sharing more about my "tune up" at the Hansa Center next time.

As always, we do appreciate your prayers.

Blessings all!
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