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knuks
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 9/10/2010 2:11 PM (GMT -6)   
I just started massive antibiotic dose for lyme disease.  Do I take epsom salt baths during my treatment?  Do the baths lessen the effectiveness of the antibiotics? 

Missy Joy
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 53
   Posted 9/10/2010 2:46 PM (GMT -6)   
I would like to know the answer to this question about detox also. 
 
My nutritionist says that doing a detox now, while on antibiotics, would keep the meds from working properly.  She was talking about taking supplements like liver cleanses, Silymarian, ect.  She said I should only take 1/2 squeezed lemon in a cup of Pau'D Arco tea first thing in the morning.  That's what I've been doing for the past few days, but I intend to discuss this with my LLMD at my appointment next Friday.
 
Curious as to what others have been told.....  :-)

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35853
   Posted 9/10/2010 4:07 PM (GMT -6)   
I can't speak to what I have been told -because I wasn't told anything - this is just what I have found out for myself. It is possible that because of some other medical issue you may have, that you do need to stick to what you have been told - but be sure that 'they' have told you why it pertains to you!!!

So generally - no, the detox bathes will not keep the meds from working, they will however lessen the severity and/or the duration of the herx you will most likely go through. Dry brushing and detox bathes will only help your body rid itself of the die-off that is bound to take place.

I really can't understand anyone with any education in the medical field telling people it's not good to detox - even while on abx. Do your self a huge favor & 'goggle' "dry skin brushing". You will learn that detoxing is one of the main functions of the skin!!!

One website states;
Did you know;
*

The skin is the largest most important eliminative organ in the body and is responsible for one quarter of the body’s detoxification each day?
*

The skin eliminates over one pound of waste acids each day in the average adult, most of it through the sweat glands?
*

That the skin is known also as our third kidney?
*

That the skin receives one third of all the blood circulated in the body?
*

That the skin is the last to receive nutrients in the body, yet the first to show signs of imbalance or deficiency? I often wonder what makes these people say these things?

Post Edited (Traveler) : 9/10/2010 4:57:00 PM (GMT-6)


Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4296
   Posted 9/10/2010 4:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Traveler is absolutely correct!   If there is anytime to start detoxing (salt and hydrogen peroxide baths, foot baths, dry skin brushing) the time is now...
 
It's all very simple..  Lyme bacteria die (with or without medication) and as they die off they produces really bad toxins so where do those toxins go?   If a person does not detox on a daily basis, those toxins get circulated right back into one's body, their blood, their joints, brain, everywhere!  And what does a person feel from those toxins?  Joint pain, severe herxes, brain fog, and the list goes on..
 
So as Traveler said, ask your doctor "why" they say not to detox..  Makes no sense to me in any way or form..
 
Denise
It's all about Detoxing Daily, strengthening the Immune System mixed with a dose of Positive Thinking!
 
This song is about my years with chronic lyme since 1995 and being symptom free for over 4 years:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds81S61UvPA
 
Currently taking Estrovera, ProgX (progesterone), Adrenotone Plus, CoQ10, Vitamin B Total, C, Green Vibrance, CALM (Magnesium/Calcium)

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35853
   Posted 9/10/2010 5:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Okay, off of my little soap box now!!!
I want to welcome you Knuks!!! Don't mind me!! I'm sure you will find us a caring, understanding, & helpful group. We represent a variety of different types of healing modalities, so it's likely that someone has gone through similar situations as you & may have some suggestions.

One of the best things you can can do for yourself is to read, read, read!!! We have complied a whole lot of info into one thread that stays at the top of our forum called "New to Lyme?...Start here". One of the things that we all seem to agree on is that you must become your own health advocate from now on- nobody knows what is happening with your body better than you do.

Are you seeing a Lyme Literate Medical Doc (LLMD)? What abx are you on?? Are you taking any probiotics? You might need to be on more than one.

I am really looking forward to getting to know you better through your posts.
May you find peace along your journey to health.
Trav
Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we will never cease to be amused!!!! :)
May we all find peace along the journey to find healing.
"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP
Trav

knuks
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 9/10/2010 7:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the welcome, Trav!  I went to an LLMD last week.  Started antibiotics, probiotics, etc. two days ago.  Lots of pills...20 this morning, 4 at noon, 21 tonight.  Good thing I don't have trouble swallowing pills :-)    I've taken a couple of hot - very hot - baths with epsom salts and ginger.  Then I worried that I might be sweating out the antibiotic.  The pharmacist said that I would not sweat them out, but I wanted another opinion.  Sounds like I should be doing the baths. 

knuks
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 9/10/2010 7:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Got a question...when someone refers to "herx" - what does that mean?

Mamyou
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 317
   Posted 9/10/2010 7:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Do some research about the "very hot" baths. I think they're to be not so hot, maybe even towards tepid...but can't remember why. Traveler, can you or somebody else with a memory tell this person why???!!!!!

Welcome Knuks. We are a friendly bunch and my goodness, there are some knowledgeable people on here. If you're diagnosed with lyme, do yourself a favor....read everything you can get your hands and eyes on. It will serve you well.

I'm fairly new and not so knowledgeable...mostly because my mind is shot...but I do throw in my two cents once in awhile.....

Mamyou
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 317
   Posted 9/10/2010 7:42 PM (GMT -6)   
By the way, all those pills...I'm hoping some are supplements. And what abx are you taking and in what dosage?

Mamyou
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 317
   Posted 9/10/2010 7:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Herx means Herxheimer Reaction...believe me, when you get it, you'll know it. Sick doesn't really begin to describe it in most cases.

knuks
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 9/10/2010 8:13 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm taking zithromax (500 mg 2X's a day); minocycline (100 mg 2X's a day); amoxacillin (500 mg 2X's a day); Artemesinin (500 mg 2X's a day) - all of those on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Flagyl (500 mg 2X's a day) on Thursday, Friday. Then lots of supplements, super probiotic, diflucan, nystatin, florgen3.....oh my, it's frightening how much I'm taking. But local doctors did the usual tests and basically said that they may never know what I have, that in a year or so I may come down with something and this was the beginning. The infectious disease doctor compared me to "a child with a scrape on the knee" - saying I was making this out to be more than it is. So, I researched a bit and decided I needed to see a LDMD. I'm putting all faith in him - and God.

jc27
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 176
   Posted 9/10/2010 8:16 PM (GMT -6)   
I did the detox bath 3 days in a row this past week and am having a terrible herx. On a positive note the rash I've had on my leg for the past few years is going away if that means anything?

+Lyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1304
   Posted 9/10/2010 9:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Knuks, God bless you. YOu are in a mess, aren't you? Well, join the club! It is a real pain to feel you have to be overwhelmed w/ research, but it really is important. Have you looked up herxes yet? They are kinda 'bittersweet' ???

I have not yet looked at all the posts to know if you have posted about LYme in another post? YOu said you have an LLMD. Did you have lab tests? Do you have those results? Does your LLMD believe you have Lyme and did he/she diagnose Lyme?

I do not know much about all the meds your Dr prescribed, but believe that IF your DR prescribed these, you should take them and detox.

That ID Dr who compared you to "a child with a scrape on the knee" has gotta go. I do not care WHAT a person is suffering from, but if THIS is what their Dr states, after you have complained/listed so many symptoms, then this DR is totally closed minded and not truly interested in helping you find out what is wrong.

btw, what was your rash like?
Bit 1972: Acute and chronic tonsillitis, UTI, miscarraige, appendicitis, hypoglycemia,  chronic neck pain w/ crushed vertibrae, chronic severe back pain, mitral valve prolapse, depression, resolution?
 
Bit Mother's Day 2007: Lyme, Babesia microti, hypothyroidism, EBV, HHV6, Parvovirus B19, low adrenals &misc other hormones, depression, anxiety, more of the above.

knuks
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 9/11/2010 6:14 AM (GMT -6)   
This is my story...all began this past summer...late June I fell, got stitches, got tetanus shot. Still felt healthy. July 15 began the symptoms. Following are the symptoms I've experienced thus far:

fatigue, tingling in both arms, both legs, face, back of head, sharp pain in eye (only once), deep ear pain, pain in all of my teeth (58 yrs old and never had a cavity), bleeding gums, twitch under my eye (muscle jutted out and shot up towards my eye all night long), brain fog, lots and lots of twitching under my skin, visible shaking in arms and legs, toe next to big toe shaking all night long, weakness in left arm, loud neck cracks, neck soreness. Some of these symptoms were once or twice, some seem to be all the time.

No rash. We live in the woods. I was always out working in the woods because they are full of hosta, etc. Started saving my ticks - in May I was bitten by a little bitty deer tick. First time I ever saw one that small. He was on my arm, I thought it was a little scab...kept scratching and then the "scab" started crawling. So I bagged him and dated the bag and told my husband if I get sick to remember I have this tick. Anyway, the ID doctor looked at the tick and said that it was engorged. He said sending it in to be tested would do no good because 20-30 % of all ticks tested are positive. Doesn't mean I have lyme. LLMD did not want to send it in either.

So, going back to the tetanus shot....I wondered if I was reacting to that. ID doctor said no. LLMD doctor said that the tetanus could have been a trigger.

LLMD believes I have lyme, so that's why he started me on the antibiotics. They drew blood and said it would take 2 1/2 weeks for results. He didn't want to wait that longs for the meds.

Oh, going back to the beginning of this ordeal...blood was drawn twice by my internal med dr and ID doctor. The first draw was sent to Mayo and my doctor called me and told me I had lyme disease and put me on doxycycline. Then he referred me to the ID doctor. More blood sent to Mayo - this doctor said that it is highly unlikely that I have lyme. That's when he said he doesn't know what I have and cancelled my follow-up appt.

Sorry about the length of this post....but I wanted you to know how I got to this point. Thanks for caring!!!!!

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35853
   Posted 9/11/2010 10:11 AM (GMT -6)   
HI Knuks ,
Don't worry about the length of your post - a lot of us here (like me) write some long ole posts!!!
Please let me give you the full definition of a herx;

The Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction is what happens when a large quantity of bacteria die off - as in from heavy abx usage, whether natural or prescription abx are used. This sudden increase of die-off results in an increase in frequency and/or severity of symptoms that you already have --- but it can also include getting some new symptoms (OH BOY!!!) shakehead

The only thing that will help to ease the flare up or addition of symptoms is detoxing - getting all of those dead little buggers out of your body. There are different ways that you can detox - internally with different pills/powders, by using a detox bath, using a detox foot bath, using a far infared sauna, & probably even more ways that I have never bothered to read up on. Be warned though - you may need to take detoxing very slowly - I did, as detoxing would give me migraines back then. I had to start with only 10 minutes in a detox bath and could only do that once a week for the first 2 or 3 weeks, but then I was able to slowly start adding more time, then I was able to add a couple more days a week.

One of the things about LD - no matter what kind of stress a person may experience, even if they don't realize it's stressful, it's an opportunity for tick-borne illnesses to activate or to re-activate - and they rarely miss an opportunity like that.

I never had a rash that I know of - but it could have appeared on my scalp & I would have never known it. Roughly 40 -60 % of people who contract LD don't ever see a bullseye rash, but like me they will get rashes "of unknown origin". If should get a rash while in treatment, do yourself a favor & place a penny or a dime next to the rash on your skin & take a picture of it. The coins will give the doc something to compare it with in order to understand how large it is, are there raised bumps, or is it a smooth rash & so on.

I would stay away from that ID doc if I was you. He will only hamper your ability to heal from tick-borne illnesses at this point. For some reason ID docs are totally convinced that this is a rare disease, when in reality it is considered endemic. There is the rare ID doc out there that actually understands all about tick-borne infections and how dangerous they can be, but they are rare.

I'm not sure why your LLMD didn't want to test the tick, maybe he/she figured you have more than enough symptoms to give you a clinical diagnosis without the expense of testing the tick?? You can send in a tick for testing on your own, if you chose. The most reliable lab for tick testing & for blood testing on people is "Igenix" ( http://igenex.com/Website/[url] ).

The fact that your blood test that came back as a positive from the Mayo Clinic says a lot!! Your LLMD was, of course, wise to get you started on abx asap!!! You don't get a little bit infected with LD, just like a woman can not be only a little bit pregnant!! It's a really good thing that you LLMD is hitting you hard with the abx!!!

Hang in there!!! You are definitely headed in the right direction!!! We can sure help guide you through this journey.
Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we will never cease to be amused!!!! :)
May we all find peace along the journey to find healing.
"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP
Trav

knuks
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 9/12/2010 5:53 AM (GMT -6)   
Got a question about peroxide. I went to target yesterday to buy peroxide. It was 3% but didn't say food grade. I'm confused (easily lately). Do we use the same peroxide that we have all used for years? Brown bottle?

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35853
   Posted 9/12/2010 8:48 AM (GMT -6)   
There are those here that believe that just the little ole brown bottle we grew up using is okay & others that say it must be food grade - which can be ordered on line. For me, I just use the stuff that can be bought off the shelf at Target, Walmart or whatever (I go to Dollar General).

It is my opinion that you do as much as you can afford to - if that means in order to save money for a slightly better quality supplement that your body is desperate for, you have to not get the higher quality hydrogen peroxide - then so be it. By using the lower quality supplements & that, you may not be getting the full effect, but sometimes something is better than nothing!!

Also, this is just my opinion!!!
smilewinkgrin

Mamyou
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 317
   Posted 9/12/2010 10:38 AM (GMT -6)   
I agree with Traveler. I use the stuff most easily acquired. I think somebody mentioned at some point that Costco had the better quality peroxide. It's all I can do to get to a normal store and pick the lower % off the shelf. Yep, it's what we can do and what we can afford.....
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