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borderlyme
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Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 1486
   Posted 9/19/2011 5:56 PM (GMT -6)   

You know when part of your body falls asleep, and after you "wake it up" you feel the blood rushing and it's sort of uncomfortable? Lately I've been feeling this ALL THE TIME only there's no reason I can see why the circulation should be cut off. It's in my arms and legs, but for some reason especially my left side. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this (it's only been going on since I've been on antibiotics).

Does Lyme somehow affect circulation? Is it something about toxins in the blood or something? Also, my left arm is extremely weak. Whenever I try to use it (to drive, to hold up a jar of baby food) it feels like the blood flow is cut off and it ends up really hurting all the way through to my chest. It sounds kind of silly with all the other symptoms going on, but this is currently the most limiting. Any thoughts?

And sorry for the scatter-brained post, but I also have another question if anyone has any insight. Lately I've been doing way too much internet research on Lyme, and I came across something that said that the existence of Lyme toxins hasn't been proven. Does anyone know of any research that points to evidence that this is a real phenomenon? I believe that it is (and detox baths really seem to help) but I have a scientist mentality with this sort of thing, I need to know something for a fact before I can believe it. THanks in advance!


Hopeful Maxine
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2011
Total Posts : 185
   Posted 9/19/2011 6:04 PM (GMT -6)   
borderlyme,

I get the exact same thing. Sometimes it's hard to hold a book up to read as it's like all the blood runs out of my arms and there is no circulation. I am constantly rubbing my arms and legs to try and get the blood flowing. It can almost be painful as well. Mine used to be my right side, but lately it has been more on the left. When it is in my legs, my toes feel numb, and in my arms my fingers feel numb. Do you get sensations in your face as well?

borderlyme
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 1486
   Posted 9/19/2011 6:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Never ceases to amaze me...now matter how strange the symptom someone else has always experienced it! I haven't felt it in my face, although I do get a lot of twitching in my face which can get pretty awkward. Has this ever gone away for you? I'm a lefty and I'm getting pretty tired of trying to hold a fork with my right hand!

springsjean
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 2154
   Posted 9/19/2011 6:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Lyme has a major effect on circulation because it causes thick blood. I don't know if that's what causes the tingling or falling asleep feeling but they are also both common lyme symptoms. I had them both, no so much anymore, and also had raynauds symptoms which causes a blueness to my hands with a change in temperature which for me is in the shower every morning.

As far as the toxins not being proven, because lyme is so new, I don't think there is comparatively much research yet proven. For a disease that affects so many, there isn't even an accurate test yet.

Lyme can also cause muscle wasting. Also, neurological problems caused by the bacteria, toxins, ammonia or acidic conditions, cause cause the tingling or muscle problems. They are such scary symptoms. I remember hardly being able to hold my arms up long enough to wash my hair in the shower. I can finally feel my right pinky after about a year. Woohoo. It's the simple things in life we grow to appreciate.
Co-Moderator
Lyme, HME, HGE, bartonella. 4+ years undiag. despite 10 drs.
Current meds: roxythyromycin, bactrim, doryx, amanatadine, neurontin, cymbalta Prior meds: amox, minocycline, tetracy. IV refused by ins. Supplements: boluoke, alpha lipoic acid, AG immune, magnesium, milk thistle, resistant microbes

Hopeful Maxine
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2011
Total Posts : 185
   Posted 9/19/2011 8:22 PM (GMT -6)   
borderlyme,

Some days the circulation thing is not an issue. Other days, it's the main event! It's just really bad when it goes along with heavy inner vibrations everywhere, heavy prickly skin and the dreaded woozie head with pressure!
It's good to hear that springsjean has the feeling back in her pinky! After all that time, you would think it would be permanent. Wonderful news!

Alhanna
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2011
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 9/20/2011 12:09 AM (GMT -6)   
I get tingly on my left knee, pinky and left side of my face. I also notice that my left leg feels cold compared to my right side and my left foot seems just a -little- puffy sometimes.

Hopeful Maxine
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2011
Total Posts : 185
   Posted 9/20/2011 12:39 AM (GMT -6)   
Isn't it amazing how these pains and nerve stuff can be so localized! I sometimes get one area about four inches around on my upper arm and sometimes on one cheek that gets red hot. It's red and it's feels like it is burning up, yet I don't have a fever. It's like those critters just bunched up together in one spot!

don't lyme to me
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 9/20/2011 7:59 AM (GMT -6)   
This is something I am deeply involved with and following very closely.

(I was bitten by a tick 15-20 yrs ago, had rash, recent W-B's have returned IGG23 and IGM23, CD-57 of 16)

It is well known that Lyme Disease causes vasculitis which restricts bloodflow.

I am beginning to develop a theory which suggests that the Lyme is trying to transform our bodies into a more suitable breeding ground by lowering the overall supply of oxygen to infected parts of our bodies.

As some of you may know, I am a MS sufferer who has undergone a new, controversial procedure called the Liberation Procedure. In a nutshell, it is believed that many MS'ers suffer from a condition in which the jugular veins restrict bloodflow through the brain by decreasing drainage because the veins are constricted in a manner (valve or vein stenosis). Liberation means using venous angioplasty (ballooning or stenting) to correct this outflow problem.

I have had the procedure done twice by the most experienced doctors in the U.S. (One in NY and one in CA)

I have also had a stent placed in my left internal jugular vein, because the vein itself had shriveled down to a 2 mm diameter. This is a 10mm+ vein normally when fully draining! (You should know here that the internal jugular veins only drain blood from the brain when laying down. The vertebral veins perform this function when you are upright. As a result, vein diameters vary depending on the body's position and so jug veins must be looked at while laying down.)

The valves of the juguar veins have been found to be the most common cause of stenosis.

Summary of procedures:
1st - mild balloong of right and left IJV's valves (Internal Jugular Veins)
2nd- stent placed in compressed left iliac vein (May Th8rner's Syndrome)
3rd- stent placed in left IJV (vein was 2 mm fully dilated)
4th- radical ballooning of right and left IJV valves

I experienced short-term improvement and then declined after each procedure. Many who undergo the procedure experience flu-like symptoms afterwards (which may be a die-off of the infection due to increased oxygen).

I believe that my stenoses were caused by Lyme and that is why the procedures did not provide me with any long lasting benefits - the Lyme was never treated and so kept causing the vasculitis.

I never made the connection until I saw rhis article about a Lyme patient who underwent the procedure:

http://www.bclocalnews.com/vancouver_island_south/sookenewsmirror/news/128686508.html

I am also thinking that the hands and feet are affected most because they are further from the heart which might allow the Lyme to thrive best there.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35853
   Posted 9/20/2011 1:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Although thick blood is something that needs to be checked out, it's not the only thing that can cause some of those sensations. Lyme attacks the entire nervous system and does damage nerves so that they are misfiring -causing weird sensations such as a patch on your foot or arm to feel ice cold, or even suddenly very warm.

Miss C- there seems to be quite a few members using lumbrokinase. You can read more about it here:www.lymediseaseresource.com/Lumbrokinase.html. Of course I suggest that you talk it over with your LLMD before using anything to thin your blood. smilewinkgrin
Co-Moderator, Lyme Disease ;)

Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List"

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

I break up my post because my eyes have been effected by TBI's as well, making long paragraphs very hard to read.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35853
   Posted 9/21/2011 1:44 PM (GMT -6)   
That would be a good idea! We seem to have quite a few of our members that are dealing with thick blood. The other thing you could do is to use our search function - I have found that the search function here is a lot of help!

Here is a site I just found - rather interesting reading. According to this site, I now know why I don't deal with the 'thick blood' issue! I take all of the botanical and vitamin that is recommended for thick blood. Hmm. Not sure just how accurate the recommendations are though, I haven't had time to check them out, so take all with a grain of salt please!

www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C546009.html
Co-Moderator, Lyme Disease ;)

Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List"

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

I break up my post because my eyes have been effected by TBI's as well, making long paragraphs very hard to read.

Ineverlikedrollercoasters
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 9/21/2011 4:07 PM (GMT -6)   
This is a very interesting subject that can have several causes. I have circulation problems as well, but I do know what is causing them. Along with other organs in my body Lyme has attacked my heart with a fairly great deal of damage.

I have a Right Ventricular Outflow Track Parasytole. (mouthfull) What it means is that my heart tries to pump my blood backwards at times because there is a syncronization problem between the AV node, SN node, and the new parasytole. They all try to control the beat of my heart but don't always get the rythum right.

Also I have thick blood too. My LLMD has given me several options for this from fish oil,Lumbrokinase, Nattokinase, Brolmelain, Vitamin E, and ginko biloba. I take fish oil and drink lots and lots of water.

The water maily because I found dehydration to be a trigger for the RVOTP. What was once a very dibilitating side effect from lyme is now pretty much an after thought. I still don't have the best circulation and my limbs tend to fall alseep easily still but I don't pass out anymore.

One other thing I do to increase oxygen in my body is to take nitrous oxide. It is found in many workout supplements although I haven't yet found one without caffine, will let you know if and when I do. But Nitrous Oxide dialates capilaries increasing the flow of oxygen to the cellular level.

I always feel better when I take N.O. It definately gives an energy boost and helps be to make it through some strength training to prevent attrophy that is such a problem with Lyme. I agree that Lyme takes over and makes the most hospitible environment for it's self. Lyme is a super bacteria in the way of science!

But that would take forever to explain. Before you spend a lot of money on another prescription if you are worried about thick blood I would talk with your doctor and see if there are any other options that may help you. If you are worried about heart complications talk with your LLMD about seeing a cardiologist, they may have one to recomend.

Scarlet Grace
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 110
   Posted 2/8/2012 2:19 PM (GMT -6)   
Borderlyme,

I know this is an old thread, but I was wondering- do you still have this problem? I've been experiencing a rush of blood feeling in the side of my head and other places off and on. I've also had it feel like the back of my head, arm, legs, ect. are falling asleep after leaning against something. Just curious as to whether you figured this out.

SleeplessNJ
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2012
Total Posts : 371
   Posted 2/8/2012 5:19 PM (GMT -6)   
Everything falls asleep on me. My husband has always guessed mento just have poor circulation. Wow--what isn't a symptom or cause of Lyme? I'm really starting to feel an anxiety attack coming on ... Must breathe...

So upsetting that so many of you have the same things and aren't getting better with abx:( makes me feel very hopeless

Scarlet Grace
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 110
   Posted 2/8/2012 8:06 PM (GMT -6)   
Oh, I'm sorry to be discouraging SleeplessNJ. I've been doing abx for 4 months and do feel better than last summer. I actually get out and do things more often now, like take my kids to the park or go to Bible study. I have new symptoms that keep popping up, but I still feel like things are better than last fall.

The anxiety is the worst, I think. How are you feeling now?

borderlyme
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 1486
   Posted 2/8/2012 10:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Scarlet Grace - this symptom had actually gone away for a while, but in the last week or so it's back again. Never really figured out exactly what it is, but it happens when my treatment is hitting me hard (so I guess it's a good sign?). I imagine that I just have tons of toxins floating around in my blood or something (not the most fun visualization, I know) and it's getting in the way of my bloodflow or something.

Sleepless - like Scarlet Grace (and I believe many others), I am getting better with abx, it's just that it comes and goes/cycles. Last week I hardly felt like I was sick at all anymore - I was running and dancing in the shower and crying from time to time because I was just so thrilled and amazed at how much better I was feeling. Now I'm not feeling so wonderful anymore, but within a couple of weeks I'm sure I'll have that same feeling of getting/being better again.

This thing just takes time and requires a lot of patience. Some people get better faster than others, and some people need more than just abx to get the job done. But with persistence there's no reason to believe you won't get better! I know it's a lot to take in - but hope really is so important; try to find a way to get that hope back, if you can. Hang in there!
Co-Moderator, Lyme Disease Forum

SleeplessNJ
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2012
Total Posts : 371
   Posted 2/9/2012 9:18 AM (GMT -6)   
Scarlett--you are way too sweet to ask about me. Gosh, this group rocks!! I walked away and felt a little better. I have my ups and downs..mostly downs which is hard and very discouraging. But it is so amazing to be able to come here and talk it out with you all and actually have someone ask how *I* am doing when they are the same. I am truly touched. Bless you.

Heathersdad
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 1151
   Posted 12/15/2012 6:25 PM (GMT -6)   
I clicked on the "details" at the bottom of the page, just above the "members." I saw this thread and clicked on it. A few things caught my eye.

Several of the members said some things about circulation that i would like to comment on. I will address them in the future with one of my longer articles. I am now trying to keep the length of my posts down. My initial zeal for writing long posts has worn off! However, sometimes my goal is to reveal my thought process as well, i.e. my chain of reasoning. I had devised my own protocol that solved Heather's problem with a cold right arm that was also hypersensitive and weak.The solution involved consideration of several issues, and therefore will require a well thought out and communicated post.

I found Ineverlikedrollercoasters post to be interesting. I think that he is onto something. I have already written a post about Nitric Oxide. Dr. J. has recently flound a way to increase its production in her body. Heather reports that it is helping her swimming endurance.

I would also like to make a few corrections. It is "nitric oxide," not "nitrous oxide." Nitrous oxide is also known as "laughing gas" which is used as an anesthetic. The various products on the market enable the body into making its own nitric oxide, which exists in the form of a gas. Various types of specialized cells in the body manufacture this gas when they are enabled and communicated to do so. Nitric oxide in turn communicates to the arterial walls to dilate when called upon to do so, and also has immune system function. Nitric oxide availability is only one of several issues potentially impacting blood circulation.

Don

Post Edited (Heathersdad) : 12/15/2012 5:40:25 PM (GMT-7)


dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1558
   Posted 9/29/2017 4:07 PM (GMT -6)   
So I think this is a good thread to bring back.

There's been multiple post lately about tingling and numb extremities.

This was a symptom of mine really early on that went away but then came back in full force after I relapsed.

Proper blood circulation has been running through my mind but couldn't put the pieces together so it's good to see another thread from years past of people trying to piece it together as well.

My hypothesis in which I'm trying to look more into is blood circulation and lyme. How it could be the culprit, indirectly (as lyme is the direct culprit) of many of the different lyme symptoms we feel and experience including tissue breakdown.

If proper blood flow isn't getting into these areas, many things needed to keep healthy tissue and cells in these areas may not receive it (adequately), thus explaining why certain symptoms maybe worse in certain parts of the body.

Once again bumping this old thread to see after 6 years if any new insight could be added.

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1558
   Posted 9/29/2017 4:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Also there's multiple mentions of "thick blood" in this thread. This has also been a piece to my hypothesis, because recently when I got blood drawn (a week ago), they couldn't get any out of my left arm (most worse hit arm) and switched to my right and still struggled but finally got some flowing.

The lady that administered said "you need to drink more water", needless to say I didn't go on a soliloquy on how I have lyme disease and it has nothing to do with water and just "yea you're probably right".
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1558
   Posted 9/30/2017 8:04 AM (GMT -6)   
bump.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 26402
   Posted 9/30/2017 11:57 AM (GMT -6)   
dacarte - do you take Hawthorn? It's an herb that promotes good blood flow - I have been taking it for a couple of years now.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1558
   Posted 9/30/2017 2:12 PM (GMT -6)   
I have before but not currently. I'll look into.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 3704
   Posted 10/1/2017 9:51 AM (GMT -6)   
Circulation is interesting and not understood much in general medicine. Obviously everyone feels better after massage. The different variations of rolling on a foam fitness roller also increases circulation without after soreness contributed to working out.

We hear about lyme thickening blood. Are these just opinions or true? There are standard blood tests for people on blood thinners. "R" something (?). I think these measure coagulation. Thick/thin and the ability to clot might be different I dont know.

I had a leg clot a couple years ago, but also learned from 23andMe testing that I have a genetic disposition to it (genes) also. Conventional testing also confirmed it AFTER I told the Dr about what 23/me reviled. So I couldnt really blame lyme. Another reason I recommend 23andMe. If it happens again, say camping out in the woods, I know not to blow it off, as it can be life threatening. My lowerleg felt like a fence post.

mrdude
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 52
   Posted 10/1/2017 7:53 PM (GMT -6)   
The circulation thing is one of my most annoying symptoms. It is the thing I feel the most.

I feel like I have water running down my legs sometimes due to some issue with the nerves.

A bizarre symptom I have that I'm wondering if anyone else has; I frequently get little 5-10 second bursts of pain/tingling/tinnitus.

Some examples for context:
-feels like air is being sucked out of my ear and it starts ringing for 5-10 seconds
-back of my head will start tingling intensely for 5-10 seconds
-pain/discomfort around lower abdomen 5-10 seconds
-left hang has a shooting pain and again lasts 5-10 seconds

Just curious if anybody has this.

10LymeB
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 480
   Posted 10/1/2017 8:13 PM (GMT -6)   
My theory is that the lyme is tackling the nerves - even on a small scale you'll notice it. It's also in your digestive system causing inflammation of the nerves. My legs fall asleep when I sit for more than 15 minutes. My feet are always cold. I also now have issues in my neck that cause weakness in my arms - for me, it's the traps that are causing the problem.

Lavender essential oil helps bring circulation to the muscles and joints. I've been using it for years. Light yoga, drinking plenty of water also helps. I bet most of us don't drink enough water. I try so hard, but I know I don't.
*42 yo - Treatment started Nov. 2016 - Bitten by mosquito in Paris 2013
* SIBO (improved with diet)
* Candida (improved with diet and Nystatin)
* Lyme - Babesia - Bartonella
* Hashimoto's (improved with NatureThroid)
* EBV
* HHV6
* Tinea Versicolor (improved with Sporanox)
* IBS (improved with diet and BPC 157)
* Mostly herbal treatment, Bryon White
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