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Morti81
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2011
Total Posts : 184
   Posted 9/22/2011 5:06 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi all,

Wondering whether anyone is aware of any cases of lyme contraction from mice, their faeces/ urine?

achievinggrace
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Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 2323
   Posted 9/22/2011 7:05 AM (GMT -6)   
In the deer tick's first stage of life it favors the deer mouse. These mice are usually found outside and it is the deer tick that then goes on in its next stage of life to seek out other hosts such as dogs, humans and deer.

While the Borellia bacteria have been found in every bodily fluid, you would have to be doing some pretty funny things with the mouse feces and urine to contract Lyme. There are plenty of other diseases that you can contract from mice, so having them nearby is not desirable in either case!
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achievinggrace
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Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 2323
   Posted 9/22/2011 12:45 PM (GMT -6)   
The larvae get the Borellia bacteria from sucking on the blood of mice and other rodents -- the are never in the water.

MicroWiki said...
The various species of Borrelia are known to humans in the form of Lyme disease and recurring fever, transmitted through tick or flea bite. The cycle of Borrelia through animals is related to the tick's life cycle. The tick has four stages in its two-year life cycle, egg, larva, nymph and adult. Between each stage the tick needs a blood meal in order to mature. The tick usually acquires the spirochaete during its larval stage, when it feeds on small animals such as rodents or birds. Usually the tick picks up Borrelia from the white-footed mouse, which is commonly infected. The tick then becomes the host for the spirochaete. The bacteria resides in the digestive tract of the host for its next nymph and adult stages during which it is passed on to other animals, and sometimes humans.
Co-Moderator Lyme Disease Forum

Spall
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2011
Total Posts : 111
   Posted 9/22/2011 2:05 PM (GMT -6)   
You can contract leptospirosis directly from mouse feces/urine. It's a bacterial infection caused by a spirochete, like Lyme, with a list of symptoms that has quite a bit of correlation with Lyme. Because its a spirochete it's one of just a few other conditions that will trigger a Herx reaction from abx treatment. I think think it's a more acute infection that comes on faster, hits harder and can be directly fatal if untreated.

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 13217
   Posted 9/22/2011 4:33 PM (GMT -6)   
In this instance I think Wiki is right, but I'm more of a pain in the ...well you know - I don't like using Wiki because anyone can change things, even the meaning of a word.

So for anyone who would like to see another reference as to where Borellia comes from, here is what the University of Wisconsin-Madison, Department of Bacteriology has to say on their website:

"The natural reservoir for Borrelia burgdorferi is thought to be the white-footed mouse. Ticks transfer the spirochetes to the white-tailed deer, humans, and other warm-blooded animals after a blood meal on an infected animal."

textbookofbacteriology.net/themicrobialworld/Lyme.html
Co-Moderator, Lyme Disease ;)

Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List"

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

I break up my post because my eyes have been effected by TBI's as well, making long paragraphs very hard to read.

achievinggrace
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Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 2323
   Posted 9/23/2011 6:57 AM (GMT -6)   
It gets passed from mouse to mouse in utero and by the ticks that are biting them. You would think the solution would be to kill all the mice. Not only is that fairly impossible, but the tick would just move over to a new host.

There was one community in an island off of CT that decided to rid themselves of deer to control Lyme disease. This seemed like a good idea, but the tick moved onto its next favorite host -- humans!!
Co-Moderator Lyme Disease Forum

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 13217
   Posted 9/23/2011 1:02 PM (GMT -6)   
One way to look at it, Miss C is that by taking the abx, you are just trying to restore the balance in your body- even if you have to take them long term! Right now the bacteria are over-populating your body. There has to be a balance in our bodies of all kinds of bacteria.

Are you taking probiotics? If not I would suggest that you go to the health food store and get some that are in the refrigerated section. You need some powerful probiotics, one that has several different types of the good bacteria. I prefer Kefir - the homemade version- as it has a lot more types of good bacteria that we need while on such strong abx.

I agree with you about not killing the coyotes, though. We have a 13 lb. Jack Russell Terrier and two Rat Terriers who are both around 20 lbs and one older cat. We also have coyotes that come right up close to the house. Any time we hear the coyotes we bring the dogs inside, and we don't let them out for long if it's not light outside. We don't nor will we hunt down the coyotes for doing what they do.
Co-Moderator, Lyme Disease ;)

Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List"

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

I break up my post because my eyes have been effected by TBI's as well, making long paragraphs very hard to read.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 13217
   Posted 9/24/2011 2:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Of course I will be here when you feel awful!! I will do my best to encourage and cheer you - along with many others here on the forum that have come to know and like you as well!!!
Oh, no worries about me moving into town! I can't take the extra activity that happens when surrounded by people! I need to have acreage for lots of nature around me, or I stay wound up and can't sleep or eat!! I know that sounds bizzarre, but it's true!

From what I have been able to determine there are two sides to the question of taking too many probiotics, with the majority saying no, it's not possible. I would say that unless that's about all you are eating, they would be pretty safe.

Please, please be sure to eat a solid meal or a heavy snack before taking your dose of Doxy - even though almost all bottles and Pharmacists say to take it on an empty stomach. The larger doses that we take for extended periods will tear up a stomach unless you're protecting it.
Co-Moderator, Lyme Disease ;)

Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List"

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

I break up my post because my eyes have been effected by TBI's as well, making long paragraphs very hard to read.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 13217
   Posted 9/25/2011 9:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Miss C,
I am so sorry that you had that feeling all night with the Doxy and the acidic stomach!!! I know how nasty that is! Maybe eating a little lighter - or smaller - snack at night?

I know when I was on Doxy, I would have that vile, nasty bitterness for a long while if I didn't eat something. Keep on trying different things in an effort to protect the lining of your stomach. Do you still have dairy in your diet? If so a glass of milk might do the trick. If you have cut the dairy out, try eating several crackers???

It's your body though, of course, and if the Doxy at night without food doesn't bother you, then there's nothing to "fix"!! smilewinkgrin
Co-Moderator, Lyme Disease ;)

Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List"

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

I break up my post because my eyes have been effected by TBI's as well, making long paragraphs very hard to read.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 13217
   Posted 9/25/2011 9:56 AM (GMT -6)   
I have to agree with Miss C about culling deer - without the deer, ticks will just move on to the next easiest target. It's not like we can stop them just by removing 1 food source! Not to mention the fact that birds are the way these ticks are carried from one side of the US to the other and from one country to another. That's something that "we" can't stop - birds migrating.

It is strictly just my opinion on this subject -and I have not spent a lot of time researching this subject- but the way I see things, if the deer are removed from the picture (and what a shame that would be!) then our pets are the next biggest target. Which would mean that then people stand to become even more exposed to the ticks and the infections they carry as there will be more ticks in each home. After a while - since these ticks are stealthy little buggars - it won't even matter if you don't have pets in your home, you will be exposed since the ticks can hitch a ride on a pant leg, or whatever and then drop off in someone else's home!

If there was some way to get and keep the Western Fence Sitting lizard in the colder areas of this country that would be a great thing! But lizards generally don't do well in freezing temps - so that's out.

Without neutralizing the bacteria in the mice - the original source - I really don't see that there is a good way of just stopping the infections before they start, That's why I am behind the efforts to push for better testing and treatments. I really do believe that will be the only way to "get a hold of" this pandemic situation.

Once again - this is only my opinion and I haven't dedicated much time at all researching and learning about all of the details.

Peace All!! smilewinkgrin
Co-Moderator, Lyme Disease ;)

Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List"

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

I break up my post because my eyes have been effected by TBI's as well, making long paragraphs very hard to read.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 13217
   Posted 9/25/2011 10:37 AM (GMT -6)   
I hope that you not only make it through your luncheon, but enjoy yourself -even just a little bit! Getting out of the house once in a while and just doing something totally unrelated to the norm of keeping things going can really help boost my mood!!!

I would say relax and be who you really are!! You are an intelligent, strong woman living in a time of her life where there are some real struggles are happening. So you're tired? Sit down and put your feet up!! Have a headache? move to a quieter area! At least you are of an age (sorry!) where people won't look at you and tease you about being old before your time!!! I get that a lot as I am only 48.

Go - relax - enjoy!!! When you are tired, go home!! LOL! smilewinkgrin
Co-Moderator, Lyme Disease ;)

Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List"

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

I break up my post because my eyes have been effected by TBI's as well, making long paragraphs very hard to read.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 13217
   Posted 9/27/2011 1:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you Miss C!! Yes! I do expect that the best is yet to come in my life!! I have a wonderful, supportive hubby and we really do have a lot of things that we enjoy doing together. Although he is now disabled, he has been able to build himself back up and I am doing well enough that we are now able to begin to build our "retirement life" - and oh how wonderful that is going to be!!

I am glad that you were able to get out and enjoy something not related to Lyme or any other TBI! It can really be rejuvenating at times! Please do be careful this week to not over-do, but enjoy every activity that you can!!!
Co-Moderator, Lyme Disease ;)

Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List"

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

I break up my post because my eyes have been effected by TBI's as well, making long paragraphs very hard to read.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 13217
   Posted 9/27/2011 1:20 PM (GMT -6)   
Lymester said...
But I think in some areas there are too many deer anyway,



Boy, I'll agree with you on that one! Just a few years back, I can remember while driving on the highway 'loop' around Kansas City, a deer jumped out in front of my vehicle and both of my kids were with me! Going 65 -70 mph and having a deer jump out like that - I sure wasn't thinking "awww, poor Bambi'!!!! I told the kids to get down because we were going to hit a deer! Fortunately the deer regained some sense and jumped right back over the guard rail!


Drinking lizard blood definitely isn't on my to-do list, although I do have to admit that I would at least seriously consider - and probably would give it a go smhair- if it was proven to even help get rid of the infections!!

Okay, alllll together now.... EWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!
Co-Moderator, Lyme Disease ;)

Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List"

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

I break up my post because my eyes have been effected by TBI's as well, making long paragraphs very hard to read.
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