Cowden Protocol questions?

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hercules25
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Date Joined Jul 2012
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   Posted 8/18/2012 4:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Can anyone advise me if they prefer antibiotics or the cowden protocol or something similar (if you did it). Or how well you did on one that the other if you have chronic lyme? Or which one you prefer. I am strongly thinking of going natural with the this treatment. Seems like I hear better treatment results and less side effects with the natural methods for chronic Lyme.

borderlyme
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   Posted 8/18/2012 9:39 PM (GMT -6)   
I've done antibiotics and Buhner's protocol - I prefer the herbs, but from my own experience, in order for them to be enough, you really have to keep your vices at bay. I think things might've been different if I hadn't been so sick/sick for so long when I started all of this, or if I knew anything about natural medicine when I started - for me I think it was totally necessary to do the aggressive abx first, and then after that, the herbs worked really, really well, until I started slacking off with healthy dieting, detoxing, letting stress in, etc., and I started to spiral down again. Now I'm doing a hybrid approach which seems to be working pretty well.

I think the number one thing is to do what feels absolutely right to you. What I like most about using herbal medicine is that I find it exciting, and my life sort of revolves around things that make me healthier, rather than getting rid of symptoms (of course, I think that's what's come with just getting better, in general).
Co-Moderator, Lyme Disease Forum

Konawind
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   Posted 12/5/2012 11:50 AM (GMT -6)   
I prefer herbs. I have done the Cowden Protocol for 9 months and felt GREAT! However please note you can and do herx just as much as you do on antibiotics...but its seems more gentle. After the inital few months you will feel GREAT on Cowden. I am doing a second round since I just got a reinfection of Bartonella and am herxing a bit now as I start on the HH and Enula portions of the protocol. I am also taking Lumbrokinase to destroy the Lyme biofilm and helps with my coagulation issues. Doing both of these I need to detox alot so I am doing my detox baths and working out at the gym for a good sweat.

rns
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Date Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts : 32
   Posted 12/5/2012 12:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Over the years I tried various herbal protocols including Cowden's. For me it didn't work, nor for my mum who also had Lyme.
However, my former LLMD, who had chronic Lyme, swore by Samento.
We started to get better on a mix of antibiotics and Buhner's herbals, we further got better by doing the Andy Cutler detox protocol for heavy metals, we further progressed on an anti-biofilm and antibiotics protocol then we got better by treating parasites and lately we've been mostly working on immune system enhancement.
It seems to me the longer one has been ill the wider the scope of the treatment needs to be in order to cover all those imbalances that may have built up over time we were unwell, which was my case.

Konawind
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Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 22
   Posted 12/5/2012 1:20 PM (GMT -6)   
For those of you out there that have not heard of or tried the Cowden Protocol...please understand that it is not just taking one herb...Samento. I see this alot... that many people think that its just taking one herb...it's not.

You take many different herbs together while on the Cowden Protocol, Samento is just one of the many. You have to take all of the herbs (Burbur, Banderol, Parsley, Pinella, Sparga, Samento along with Mag Malate and Serrapetase then you add in Cumanda, Enula, Houttuniya, Mora, Zeolite and Trace Minerals) and follow their full protocol and drink TONS of water while doing it. For me, it was the best thing ever! So please, if you are taking to full protocol or have let me know how you did on it.

I did the Cowden Condensed Protocol in case you are wondering.

Also, I have read where many people have just done a month or two...and have not seen results...chances are you are infected with a co-infection so you really need to stick it out and do the whole min 6 months when the other herbs will help for co-infections.

Also, if you can do detoxing for heavy metals, etc while on this, that will help as well. I swear by my Myers Cocktails and Glutathione IV's... love them!

kds86
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Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 278
   Posted 12/5/2012 2:16 PM (GMT -6)   
I just took ONE drop of pinella for first time in months. My brain is goin nuts now..lol..not in good way at all either. lol

rns
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Date Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts : 32
   Posted 12/5/2012 3:26 PM (GMT -6)   
Konawind said...
For those of you out there that have not heard of or tried the Cowden Protocol...please understand that it is not just taking one herb...Samento. I see this alot... that many people think that its just taking one herb...it's not.
Also, if you can do detoxing for heavy metals, etc while on this, that will help as well. I swear by my Myers Cocktails and Glutathione IV's... love them!


In my previous post I did not want to imply Cowden is just one herb, although the little science there is on it is based on just two herbs Samento and Banderol.
As I mentioned my first LLMD was a fan of the protocol and also in his experience, personal and other patients, Samento was the most effective herb of all.
This may be important information for people who can't afford the whole proprietary protocol which is quite expensive.
As for Myers and glutathione these are quite good for those who can afford them but won't cure Lyme and are not necessary to get better, in my experience.

Regarding the Zeolite and the heavy metals detox part of the protocol, I would not recommend it to anybody who are particularly sensitive to mercury or other heavy metals (I am). Speaking from personal experience it's likely to make things worse.
I conclude adding that I personally found Serrapeptase quite ineffective compared to other enzymes, whilst my latest doctor advised against supplementing with magnesium which can promote biofilm formation.

kds86
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Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 278
   Posted 12/5/2012 3:32 PM (GMT -6)   
rns,what are those other enzymes that were effective? you mean systemic?

Konawind
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Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 22
   Posted 12/5/2012 3:48 PM (GMT -6)   
I was not implying that it was you, rns...I have read numerous posts on HW and other boards and simply wanted people to know that there are other herbs in the entire protocol and that its most effective when taken as directed.

The Myers and Glutathione are de-toxers and not meant to cure Lyme...they only help get through the worst of the herxing and aid in mitochondria reproduction.

Ideally, if you detox first or in between stints of abx's that will help aid in the reduction of the infection. At least that has helped me. I have done periods of detoxing then would go back on either the antibiotics or herb protocols (I have also done Zhang's protocol in addition to Cowden, and felt great doing that as well)

As for enzymes...my LLMD has me now taking Lumbrokinase (Boluoke) to help destroy the bio-films and thin the blood allowing for more oxygen to the cells and fight the bacteria.

All in all, I am happy and feeling great, except for this re-infection of Bartonella from the bites I received in September...

rns
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Date Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts : 32
   Posted 12/6/2012 10:23 AM (GMT -6)   
kds86 said...
rns,what are those other enzymes that were effective? you mean systemic?

There are a lot of studies on Serrapeptase as a systemic enzyme. It makes antibiotics more effective and helps the immune system fight infections. However, when I tried it, it would only work at high dosages which gave me a bad cough. It can cause a serious inflammation of the lungs. At the lower usually recommended dosages 20mg/d I couldn't tell the difference.

I have tried several enzymes. The one that worked best for me were lumbrokinase at or above 80mg/d in divided doses and nattokinase at 16k fu/d (dosages that worked for me).
I improved with both. Both were great at enhancing peripheral blood circulation. Lumbrokinase was slightly better at making antibiotics work harder.

kds86
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Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 278
   Posted 12/6/2012 4:09 PM (GMT -6)   
What brand rns? The brand I used was Dr's Best,and had very good reviews with it working for people for various health issues.

http://www.iherb.com/Doctor-s-Best-Best-Serrapeptase-90-Veggie-Caps/4467

rns
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts : 32
   Posted 12/7/2012 10:54 AM (GMT -6)   
I also used that. The one that seemed to work was the Best's high potency one but with the side effects I mentioned.

vacant
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Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 70
   Posted 3/6/2013 2:01 PM (GMT -6)   
how do u know if cowden is working?
 

TICKLEDPINK
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Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 899
   Posted 3/6/2013 2:17 PM (GMT -6)   
I know it's working because I'm steadily improving.

It's been 6 months and I would say I'm about 75% better....not bad ?

Tickled

Lymeinthecoconut
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Date Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts : 27
   Posted 3/6/2013 3:37 PM (GMT -6)   
I had changed over to the Crowden protocol from homeopathic treatment. I also did the antibiotic thing...no real impact. I have made a huge improvement on the Crowden protocol. I was a wreck. I have a regimented detox ritual coupled with organic food. I tried many things but the Cowden protocol really made me a happy camper. I have now added the Doug Coil to it and today was the first day that I gardened without misery.

@Tickledpink, I am also 75% better in less than a year. I was in a wheelchair. I know I can kick Lyme to the curb.
14years undiagnosed, Started off with Bell's Palsy, Polyneuropathy, Carpal tunnel, hypothyoidism, mitral valve prolapse, rheumatoid arthritis, migraines, lung issues....it's all (S)lyme.

Doing salt c protocol, food grade hydrogen peroxide, coffee enemas, activated charcoal, nutramedix supplements, healing meditation

TICKLEDPINK
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Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 899
   Posted 3/6/2013 4:13 PM (GMT -6)   
YIPPEE!!!!!

I'm looking forward to working in my garden,too.

It's still too cold here in Germany........but Spring will be here soon,I can't wait.

I intend to kick my Lyme to TIMBUKTU !!!!!!!!!!!

Mystery Illness
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Date Joined Dec 2011
Total Posts : 767
   Posted 3/6/2013 9:35 PM (GMT -6)   
It truly varies a lot from person to person. My LLMD likes to use abx. initially w/ supplements and then switch to herbals toward the end of treatment. What works for one may not work for another. The cowden protocol is definitely worth a try though!!!

vacant
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 70
   Posted 3/7/2013 11:23 AM (GMT -6)   
i am if i will see the full benefit...........cause i have to stop and start again i am so wipe.
 
all your input are so upbeat..........thanks

yellow_daisy
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Date Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts : 65
   Posted 9/5/2013 4:00 PM (GMT -6)   
TICKLEDPINK and Lymeinthecoconut, how are you both feeling now on the Cowden protocol? I am going to be starting the Cowden protocol soon, so I am looking for success stories and just general information from people who have done it.

vacant
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 70
   Posted 9/5/2013 5:07 PM (GMT -6)   
hello to all:
i have been taking the Cowden since october 2012. the first 6-7 months were really hard...........but now i feel a lot better.......i can drink 2-3 liters a day without having so many visits to the bathroom - i had to wear pad.........it was awful.....went to see urologist............sorry don't want to give u all my problems./trouble.
i was dgx with ms 10 years ago...........
now after all those months that pass.....i can say that i have a quality of life.......i planted my flowers - haven't done this in 6-7 years, i have more energy, can exercise like"normal people"........i am sure i still will have improvement..........but this is really really good.
Caroline

Shelly71
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Date Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts : 373
   Posted 1/4/2014 10:47 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm seriously considering this . Why is the condensed protocol?
My unknown future is in the hands of an all knowing God.
Abnormal is my new norm.
**********************
5/13 Quest showed 1 band positive. #41 only!
9/13 IgeneX showed 6 bands positive.
11/13 Blood Smear showed Babs & Bart
Meds include: Doxycycline, Biaxin, Ceftin, Vit B complex, C, D, Multivitamin, Magnesium, Enhansa (Curcumin from Tumeric), Probiotics, Prilosec when on Doxy

teragram
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Date Joined May 2013
Total Posts : 2168
   Posted 1/4/2014 11:11 PM (GMT -6)   
This is a very useful thread. Since it's my bedtime, I may have to bump it a few times in order to be able to read the whole thing.

Of all the protocols, it seems to me that Cowden gets the most positive reviews on the internet.

The problem is all too obvious: The cost!! Even the condensed protocol is very costly.

The fact that a protocol would cost so much makes the whole thing suspect to me, in a way, although I'm sure Zhang, Buhner, and company cost a lot too.

Buhner doesn't seem to think the research Eva Sapi did on Banderol and Samento holds any validity.

But then of course, he's a competitor.

Someone up there mentioned that in order for the protocol to work, you have to do the whole thing. Do others of you find that to be true as well? My plan was to order the Samento, Banderol, Burbur, and maybe (not sure) the Parsley, Pinella, and Cumanda. I found other websites that carry the same products at a cheaper price Nutramedix's.

Then, I was going to add Eleuthero (which I already take), Japanese Knotweed, and Astragalus. Those are the herbs I found in common on a number of different websites.

Magnesium Malate is easy to find anywhere. I don't know what the other products, ie Zeolite, are.

My guess is that even doing some of the products has got to be better than not doing anything. Optimally, I would like to find someone who could supervise me. So far, no luck. I've heard of practitioners who use some of Cowden's products, but not all, or who rotate, or pulse, or whatever.

So that's my two cents' worth (and quasi-questions).

Margaret rolleyes
Margaret, 52, Low immune globulin, Lyme, c. diff., complete thyroidectomy, remote breast cancer, IC, Babesiosis, Bartonella, etc.

Synthroid, Cymbalta, OTC allergy, Malarone, Hydroxychloriquine, Acyclovir prn, Imitrex prn, Gabapentin, Temazepam, Lamotrigine, Bystolic, Singulair, IVIG,///Colostrum, Glutamine, Multis, Calcium, D3, B vits, Probiotics, AcetylLCarnitine, Omegas, Iro

Inspiredby3
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Date Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts : 231
   Posted 3/9/2014 11:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Great info! Have been on antibiotics for 16 months and haven't improved much. Am looking into starting Cowden protocol. Anyone do Cowden while on antibiotics?

blondehart
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Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 4/13/2014 11:05 AM (GMT -6)   
I am also switching from long term antibiotics to Cowden Protocol & excited.

I've been gluten, dairy & caffeine free for over a year so I'm hoping it won't be too difficult.

Can anyone who has done it speak on the dietary restrictions?

Maggie Anne
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 62
   Posted 4/13/2014 2:25 PM (GMT -6)   
I have been doing the Cowden protocol since 22 Sept last. I have a diagnosis of ms. It has been a very very rough ride but having said that all the improvements I experienced have stayed with me. The reason I say it is a rough ride is because things that bothered me maybe 30 - 40 years ago have come back 10 fold & each one seems to take time to work it's way out of the system. I introduced Lumbrokinase about 2 months ago as I felt progress had stopped but I didn't see any change. I emailed Nutramedix & after several emails & some telephone conversations Dr Cowden felt I may have a systemic fungal infection, I agree 100% with that diagnosis although I couldn't see it before the telephone conversations. I have followed the protocol according to the printout available on the site, it tells you when to order & each dose every day is listed including when the changes are made. If you put "my experience using the cowden protocol lyme" in to the search box at the top of this page I think it should take you to a thread I have been updating about once a month. The reason I did the full treatment is because I live in Ireland & doctors don't have any great knowledge of Lyme & I felt I would be very alone trying to figure out which products to choose. Yes it is expensive but I felt after 40+ years complaining I was worth it. I don't have any fees to pay to any other person & if I was attending an LLMD somewhere his fees & travel would eat up a lot of the monthly expense. I have ordered a treatment for the fungal infection & I feel that once that is cleared I may just be finishing out the bottles I have here.
Even though it has been very rough at times I do feel I am almost where I can say I am healed.
I also do a foot soak using epsom salts almost every night to help detox.
Good luck with whatever choice you make.
Mary
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