Salt / Vitamin C Protocol ???

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desperatemom2
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Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 11/19/2012 3:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Has anyone had success with the salt / vitamin C protocol?
My son and I have Lyme and we are experiencing brain fog, feeling being spacey and vision problems. On occasion we both feel as if something is crawling under our skin. He has been on antibiotics since July. Don't know whether to try the salt  or  samento / banderol???
Any thoughts?
Thanks tons!

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 14372
   Posted 11/19/2012 5:29 PM (GMT -6)   
Well, I'm pretty opinionated on the Salt/C thing- I've looked into it quite deeply- I mean a treatment that's inexpensive and easy to do at home??? Who wouldn't want to do that! BUT - after looking into it, I don't like it or the potential that it has to really harm people. Think about how much salt you will be asked to ingest daily, then check out what too much salt can do to an already ill body. I say stay far away from the "cures" that regular people make up!!

The Salt/C thing was created by Lyme patients and their thinking - from what I've read - was because salt kills slugs, it will kill the parasites and bacteria. Their thoughts on using high doses of vitamin C aren't bad, but the salt thing ruins it all.

Samento/Banderol has been proven effective against these infections though. Big difference. Practitioners are recommending these two things to treat these infections with, not just patients.

I would also like to ask if you and your son are detoxing regularly? The dry skin brushing, detox baths, drinking plenty of water and eating very healthy will go a long way towards easing those symptoms. Otherwise it just takes time spent in treatment, as the pathogen loads must come down.

You could also try some other detoxing ideas like activated charcoal - but be sure if you take any kind of binders like this that you take them 2 hours after any food or meds/supplements and 2 hours before your next meal or meds/supplements - otherwise the activated charcoal and other binders will absorb those too!

Dr. David Jerigan (the owner of Hnasa Center) sells detoxing tinctures if you are interested. We've had several members here that have used them and said they work well.

Just my 2ยข on the whole thing! :-)
Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List" for Lyme disease.

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

Questions about what I've posted or just have questions? Please email me!!! Click on the blue envelope under my screen name

desperatemom2
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 11/19/2012 6:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Traveler,
 
We have been skin brushing, detox baths, smoothies and a healthy diet.
My son's dr. is pushing him to do the rocephrin IV. I'm a little leary. Any thoughts?  He is currently on cefroxime and zithromax. It is his fourth round of antibiotics. He's made improvements but can't shake the spacey hard to focus feeling. He's been unable to drive since July.
Really appreciate your input. After reading it I ordered the samento and banderol. I'll look into the charcoal...1st I've heard of that.
 
Thanks again!!
 

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 14372
   Posted 11/19/2012 7:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Honestly, I have to admit that I don't know as much as I really should about the abx and their different applications in treating these infections - but I do know someone that does!!! That's almost as good, right?turn LOL!

May I ask what infection is the doc wanting to use the Rocephin against? I may know of an effective herbal route if you are interested.

I've asked Summer3 to answer your question about the abx. - I hope you don't mind.

There are other binders that can be used, but I'm only familiar with the Activated Charcoal. As I said you could also use the Anti-tox formulas from Dr. David Jernigan if you are interested. Deejavu -among others - has had wonderful results from using his products.

I think that spacy, hard to focus thing is hard to deal with - I've got that going on off and on right now! I've been much, much worse, but now having to deal with that off and on can be such a challenge as I feel like I should be able to think clear enough, and yet, I find that I'm not!

I was at the Vet's office today. One of our dogs has developed an allergy to flea bites - ugh! So I took her in and felt like I understood what was being said to me, but when I tried to talk to them about it, I proved that I couldn't keep things straight! Frustrating and a bit embarrassing. LOL! I just told the vet that I had Lyme and had brain issues still and if she didn't know what that entailed she should look it up! It's important!!
Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List" for Lyme disease.

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

Questions about what I've posted or just have questions? Please email me!!! Click on the blue envelope under my screen name

Summer3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 1017
   Posted 11/19/2012 8:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi deperatemom2,

The first thing that I'm wondering is whether or not the doctor has addressed co-infections? Does your son have any co-infections? Ceftin treats Lyme and zithromax also treats Lyme (in that combination). Zith is often combined with Mepron to treat babesia. Occasionally it's used in a bartonella combo but it's not considered a hard-hitter for bart.

I recently spoke to two VERY well known Lyme doctors about IV antibiotics. Both said that it's best to wait until all co-infections are under control before starting and to make sure that you are able to afford it long-term before you start. Insurance usually only covers 30 days. Rocephin only treats Lyme.

The main risk from the IV is infection and gallbladder problems. That being said, IV's do help some people tremendously. If I was sure what I had left was mostly Lyme and I was able to afford it long-term I would not hesitate to do IV Rocephin.

Samento and banderol are good choices for herbs. They hit all three forms of Lyme. I am also a stubborn case and have been on many combos. If you are already detoxing and still not seeing a ton of improvement, it may be time to start looking into degrading biofilms and going after the cystic form. Have you added Flagyl, Tindamax, Plaquenil or GSE yet for the cysts?

I agree with Traveler about the salt/C protocol. That is not something I would try. I don't feel like it has a lot of science behind it and it's potentially dangerous.

I hope this helps somewhat and that you and your son start seeing some improvement and feeling better soon. :)

desperatemom2
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 11/20/2012 8:09 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Summer3,
 
My son has been tested for co-infections. The test have come back negative. A woman at SE PA Lyme Assoc. felt strongly that his symptoms of spaciness, lack of focus, and feeeling like the padding on his feet were missing  were all signs of Bartenella.  ???  
 His original western blot showed 4 out of 5 bands tested positive for lyme and he had or previously had epstein barr. The doc that wants to put him on rocephrin, re-ran the western blot 2 weeks ago and it showed significant improvements. We insisted that he add the zinthromax at our last visit, hoping this would address the co-infection.  I have been told that this dr. pushes IV's. He has his own treatment facility and says you must come there daily. My son runs the risk of losing his job. It would require three hours of commuting time daily.  I'm concerned that if the IV only addresses lyme that doing the IV  is an uneeded added risk? What do you think? We have a folow-up visit on Friday the 26th.
 
Just throwing this out there.......how about food grade diatemaceous earth? We use that for the animals with worms?  Ever hear of anyone using it?
 
Thank you again for you help!! 

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 14372
   Posted 11/20/2012 10:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Please remember that just like the Lyme testing, co-infection testing leaves a lot to be desired as well. There are usually only 1 - 4 strains of each co-infection that are tested for, even though there are over 20 different strains of Bartonella out there, 20 different strains of Babesia, 19 different strains of Spotted Fever Group Rickettsiae (think Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever group of infections). Once we realize that there are so many different strains that can cause human diseases, it's crazy that when the tests come back negative for 1 - 4 strains we are told that we don't have these infections, isn't it?

Please note that Summer3 has said that IV's help some people tremendously. From what I've read, I'd have to agree with her - only some really benefit and there's no way to tell who will and who won't benefit from IV therapy. So when you consider all of the probable issues that you state that would affect your son, oral abx would make more sense. It's quite possible that once co-infections are treated, he will be able to heal from Lyme- this is pretty well-known for most LLMD's.

For more reading on the need to treat co-infections first , please see Dr. James Schaller's writings from his site - www.personalconsult.com/

- Please read "Why Lyme treatments fail" www.personalconsult.com/pdfs/why-lyme-treatments-fail-part-1.pdf

Here's part 2 - www.personalconsult.com/pdfs/why-lyme-treatments-fail-part-2.pdf


I too use Food Grade Diatemaceous Earth with my animals, but it's not enough for all parasites - even in critters. We had to deal with the Barber Pole worm in my goats and almost lost one as they are stealthy as well. D.E. just wasn't enough, and according to my doc, it's not enough for some parasites in humans too.
Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List" for Lyme disease.

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

Questions about what I've posted or just have questions? Please email me!!! Click on the blue envelope under my screen name

desperatemom2
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 11/20/2012 7:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you for your help!!!!!  Have a wonderful Thanksgiving!!!!!!

Summer3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 1017
   Posted 11/20/2012 9:22 PM (GMT -6)   
I do think that IV's help people, but I am wary of a few things your LLMD is doing. He may be a great doctor, it's hard for me to say without knowing him personally, but some of the things you've mentioned would not sit well with me and I think I would almost definitely seek another LLMD opinion if I were in your son's situation.

The first thing that's strange is that the doctor is using the Western Blot as a way to show improvement. That is NOT a good indicator of improvement. Almost every LLMD would agree that you cannot use a western blot test to rule out Lyme or determine when it's gone. Dr. B. has said that some of the sickest patients never test positive on a western blot.

Another thing (that Traveler mentioned also) is that the co-infection tests are not 100% accurate. Most LLMD's diagnose them clinically. It's considered pretty rare for chronic or late-stage infected patients to have pure Lyme. It's difficult to determine which symptoms are caused by what, and the doctor may be one that feels like when Lyme is under control, the immune system can handle the co-infections. However, I think he should be upfront if that is his opinion.

The other issue I have with your doctor is the insistence that IV's be done at his facility. I don't agree with that approach at all. I know one of the "top-name" LLMD's does that but it's not typical. Most will have the patient get a PICC line so that they can infuse themselves at home. They usually try to work with the patient to find the most affordable option. Usually that's a company called Infuserve. That seems like a major warning sign to me.

desperatemom2
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 11/21/2012 1:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Summer3
 
My biggest problem is finding a doctor that is willing to do the IV and allow my son to stay home. We do not understand this!  I either get the doctor who feels 30 days on an antibiotic is all you need, or the doctor who won't do anything and insist my son needs an MRI of the brain, or the one who will only do this in his office.
If you know of a doctor that could help us in that area it would be wonderful!!!!
 
Thank you Summer3 !!

Summer3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 1017
   Posted 11/21/2012 4:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Have you tried searching at the Lyme Disease Association website? It's www.lymediseaseassociation.org

Also you could contact integrative medicine centers. A lot of times they are more open to treating Lyme and more willing to work with patients as individuals.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 14372
   Posted 11/21/2012 4:44 PM (GMT -6)   
I would like to post all of our resources for finding a LLMD for you - if you have used these all before, please forgive me. I'd just rather be safe than sorry!!

For information on finding a Lyme Literate Medical Doctor(LLMD) in your area, you can start a new thread titled something like:"Looking for LLMD in the _______ area."

You can also email our long time member, Dan's Mother at:phassan@optonline.net

You can also email Stephanie at: stephanie@turnthecorner.org You can also go to: www.turnthecorner.org/ if you want to learn a little bit more about Lyme Disease.

You can also go to The Lyme Disease Association and search for LLMD's 3 times in a month. You have to register first. Here is the link:www.lymediseaseassociation.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=277&Itemid=74

You will want to find an ILADS (International Lyme And Associated Diseases Society) doctor. The ILADS site is another great place to read to get you started on your Lyme journey. www.ilads.org/lyme_disease/treatment_guidelines_clearing_ilads.html
Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List" for Lyme disease.

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

Questions about what I've posted or just have questions? Please email me!!! Click on the blue envelope under my screen name
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